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Pioneer Gold Popularity

ProofmorganProofmorgan Posts: 758 ✭✭✭✭✭

I have lightly followed this area of numismatics over time
due to the quality of some original examples and overall attractive appearance. Until recent years, it seems these were off the beaten path and under-appreciated. Their prices still being high due to their scarcity may have also been a deterrent to the masses.

With some recent availability of quality examples, I figured I’d dabble in this area but was utterly blown out of the water.

Any insight to the recent popularity and strong prices or has my head just been in the sand the whole time?

Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.

Comments

  • lermishlermish Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DeplorableDan is, of course, 100% right and very insightful.

    One other thought regarding strong prices. There are essentially no inexpensive issues and, I suspect, few buy a "Pioneer" for type, as each issue is so different. There is no equivalent 81-S $1 or 1908 $20 that someone can just buy on the cheap. That leaves the average pioneer buyer with a very strong budget.

    When something nice comes around that a well heeled collector is interested in, there is very little difference in the budget between $75k and $80k...or $100k. Every now and again you have someone like me making a rare, aspirational type purchase, but the waters are very deep and many sharks abound.

  • CoinbertCoinbert Posts: 122 ✭✭✭✭

    Agree entirely with Dan and lermish. Pioneers are a very cool segment of the coin market that I wish I had focused on sooner. Buyers beware that inconsistent grades are the norm and not the exception.

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lermish said:
    @DeplorableDan is, of course, 100% right and very insightful.

    One other thought regarding strong prices. There are essentially no inexpensive issues and, I suspect, few buy a "Pioneer" for type, as each issue is so different. There is no equivalent 81-S $1 or 1908 $20 that someone can just buy on the cheap. That leaves the average pioneer buyer with a very strong budget.

    When something nice comes around that a well heeled collector is interested in, there is very little difference in the budget between $75k and $80k...or $100k. Every now and again you have someone like me making a rare, aspirational type purchase, but the waters are very deep and many sharks abound.

    Great information here! What is the minimum a Pioneer collector should expect to spend?

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2024 9:13AM

    @DisneyFan said:

    @lermish said:
    @DeplorableDan is, of course, 100% right and very insightful.

    One other thought regarding strong prices. There are essentially no inexpensive issues and, I suspect, few buy a "Pioneer" for type, as each issue is so different. There is no equivalent 81-S $1 or 1908 $20 that someone can just buy on the cheap. That leaves the average pioneer buyer with a very strong budget.

    When something nice comes around that a well heeled collector is interested in, there is very little difference in the budget between $75k and $80k...or $100k. Every now and again you have someone like me making a rare, aspirational type purchase, but the waters are very deep and many sharks abound.

    Great information here! What is the minimum a Pioneer collector should expect to spend?

    Base level pioneer (bechtler dollars, moffatt or clark $5) start around 5k. 10k opens up a lot more, but 15k is a sweet spot where you can get many of the more common issues (Kellogg $20, bechtler $5, low grade moffatt $10 or low grade norris, 1853 assay $20 and many of the 2.50 coins) in nice condition xf/au.

    Founder- Peak Rarities
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  • goldengolden Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dan: I really agree with you on # 5. When I bought my slug in 1991 it was in an OGH at 30. I sent it in again a few years ago and got a 40. It is now CAC.

  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks @DeplorableDan, I am curious if this extends to California Fractional Gold also? I am only just now dabbling in these after a few recent impulse buys of some really cool coins.

  • RelaxnRelaxn Posts: 993 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Marketing... niche arena with low volume so a good marketing campaign can inflate prices.... like MPL's in 07-11

  • lermishlermish Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Relaxn said:
    Marketing... niche arena with low volume so a good marketing campaign can inflate prices.... like MPL's in 07-11

    I don't know enough details to go in depth but this happened some years ago. A well known dealer marketed slugs very well and their prices went up significantly (despite them not being that rare) and have stayed up.

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ProofCollection said:
    Thanks @DeplorableDan, I am curious if this extends to California Fractional Gold also? I am only just now dabbling in these after a few recent impulse buys of some really cool coins.

    Not that I'm aware of, no. It seems like there may be an increased interest in Cal-fracs but not nearly to the same degree as the standard denominations.

    Founder- Peak Rarities
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  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 971 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2024 8:36PM

    An Oregon $5 has always been on my bucket list. The $10 seems unaffordable.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s interesting to compare the strength of the Pioneer gold market to the equally interesting but far less exuberant Colonial market.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • fathomfathom Posts: 1,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Historical significance of Pioneer gold IMO is off the charts.

    The only appreciation potential issue I see is that the supply is being thinned out to such a degree and in strong hands that certain issues will not trade much. So values may stagnate.

  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'll tell you exactly why pioneer gold is more popular all of a sudden. It's because I just sold most of my pioneer over the past year. Impeccable timing, as usual!

    Also, thanks for using the more accurate terminology "pioneer", vs. territorial which caught on but never really made sense.

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    It’s interesting to compare the strength of the Pioneer gold market to the equally interesting but far less exuberant Colonial market.

    I've been warming up to the colonial issues, perhaps we can chat at the next show you're at.

    Founder- Peak Rarities
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  • pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As far as popularity, if I had the money (I don’t) I’d be much more inclined to go after early U.S. gold versus Pioneered Gold. If I exhausted what I was looking for in government issued gold and still had unlimited resources then Pioneer would be my next step, assuming I had the P-51 I always wanted :)

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DeplorableDan said:

    @ProofCollection said:
    Thanks @DeplorableDan, I am curious if this extends to California Fractional Gold also? I am only just now dabbling in these after a few recent impulse buys of some really cool coins.

    Not that I'm aware of, no. It seems like there may be an increased interest in Cal-fracs but not nearly to the same degree as the standard denominations.

    I've started on Cal Gold a few times over the years and gave up a few times. I think I'll get back to them more seriously one day, if I live long enough. Anyway, you can see the small group I couldn't part with here:

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/private-issues-territorial-gold/california-fractional-gold/california-fractional-gold-complete-collection-period-one/imagegallery/282517

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,190 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I find the pioneer gold fascinating, myself. My pockets are very shallow, I’m just happy to have one humble piece.

    And the new Kagin book is awesome!

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @DeplorableDan said:

    @ProofCollection said:
    Thanks @DeplorableDan, I am curious if this extends to California Fractional Gold also? I am only just now dabbling in these after a few recent impulse buys of some really cool coins.

    Not that I'm aware of, no. It seems like there may be an increased interest in Cal-fracs but not nearly to the same degree as the standard denominations.

    I've started on Cal Gold a few times over the years and gave up a few times. I think I'll get back to them more seriously one day, if I live long enough. Anyway, you can see the small group I couldn't part with here:

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/private-issues-territorial-gold/california-fractional-gold/california-fractional-gold-complete-collection-period-one/imagegallery/282517

    Oh dear lord those are killer. I'm not big into fractionals, but when they look like that I am. 😂

    Founder- Peak Rarities
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  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 5,359 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @DeplorableDan said:

    @ProofCollection said:
    Thanks @DeplorableDan, I am curious if this extends to California Fractional Gold also? I am only just now dabbling in these after a few recent impulse buys of some really cool coins.

    Not that I'm aware of, no. It seems like there may be an increased interest in Cal-fracs but not nearly to the same degree as the standard denominations.

    I've started on Cal Gold a few times over the years and gave up a few times. I think I'll get back to them more seriously one day, if I live long enough. Anyway, you can see the small group I couldn't part with here:

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/private-issues-territorial-gold/california-fractional-gold/california-fractional-gold-complete-collection-period-one/imagegallery/282517

    Yes, those look remarkable. I’ve never seen toning like that on gold coins before, incredible.

    Mr_Spud

  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 5,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2024 1:55PM

    Here’s my one and only budget pioneer gold coin. It’s one of my favorite coins in my collection. I got it from Kagin after talking to him at a coin show and telling him I was looking for an affordable Bechtler piece. I gave him my email address and a couple of weeks later he emailed me and offered me the coin at a very readonable price and I bought it. I plan on getting a few more someday. Probably another Bechtler coin, that one with the backwards “N” on it, that variety has lots of character and relatively affordable to most other Bechtlers even in a straight circulated grade.

    Mr_Spud

  • CaptainBluntCaptainBlunt Posts: 187 ✭✭✭

    The 3rd edition of California Pioneer Fractional Gold is being written right now.

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