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Post a sleeper date!

renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,605 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited June 14, 2024 12:16PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Bought and sold a super sweet RED 1918-D Lincoln last week. Got me thinking: Lets post some tough coins that are strictly under-appreciated price wise. I’ll start:

The 1798/7 cent is the first overdate for US cents in the redbook. They are listed as R2+, and very difficult above VF. They come up for sale very infrequently in XF or better, which seems to hold the price guide value down.

Comments

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PillarDollarCollector said:
    I am not a US coin collector I collect Latin America I would go with any milled 1732 from 1/2 real up to 8 reales the very first machine made coins of the Americas. Very few exist of the 1/2 to 4 reales (fewer than 10 of each denomination per Yonaka) and about 40-50 8 reales exist in all grades.

    If ever there are more collectors of Mexico that would be the date I would think that would have a great chance of exploding in value (other coins as well there are many many very rare Latin American coins).

    It's early, but I can already anticipate this thread will be profiling coins that aren't actually "sleepers". It's not like any US Mint coin or series is "undiscovered", unless it's supposed to be some specialization which outside of a few series, has limited to virtually no interest.

    The examples you used (same series but different mint to those I collect) bear no similarity to what you are going to see posted here. Most Latin coinage also lacks sufficient prominence and doesn't exist in the quality correlating to much higher US prices either.

  • bestmrbestmr Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭

    That’s some sexy, crusty gold Smudge.

    Positive dealing with oilstates2003, rkfish, Scrapman1077, Weather11am, Guitarwes, Twosides2acoin, Hendrixkat, Sevensteps, CarlWohlforth, DLBack, zug, wildjag, tetradrachm, tydye, NotSure, AgBlox, Seemyauction, Stopmotion, Zubie, Fivecents, Musky1011, Bstat1020, Gsa1fan several times, and Mkman123 LOTS of times
  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,435 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WCC said:

    @PillarDollarCollector said:
    I am not a US coin collector I collect Latin America I would go with any milled 1732 from 1/2 real up to 8 reales the very first machine made coins of the Americas. Very few exist of the 1/2 to 4 reales (fewer than 10 of each denomination per Yonaka) and about 40-50 8 reales exist in all grades.

    If ever there are more collectors of Mexico that would be the date I would think that would have a great chance of exploding in value (other coins as well there are many many very rare Latin American coins).

    It's early, but I can already anticipate this thread will be profiling coins that aren't actually "sleepers". It's not like any US Mint coin or series is "undiscovered", unless it's supposed to be some specialization which outside of a few series, has limited to virtually no interest.

    The examples you used (same series but different mint to those I collect) bear no similarity to what you are going to see posted here. Most Latin coinage also lacks sufficient prominence and doesn't exist in the quality correlating to much higher US prices either.

    Just showing members here that Latin America offers many sleeper coins. To me the milled 1732's stand out for obvious reasons but there are many sleeper coins of Mexico and other Latin American countries. Will see with time as of now in 2024 the US population is made up of 25% of people with a Latin American heritage that is up 6% from only a few years ago. If ever these citizens decide to collect they may one day decide to go after their ''home countries'' and that could turn the tide easily been so many of the coins from these countries are scarce to extremely rare. Maybe it will happen and maybe it will not only time will tell.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PillarDollarCollector said:

    @WCC said:

    @PillarDollarCollector said:
    I am not a US coin collector I collect Latin America I would go with any milled 1732 from 1/2 real up to 8 reales the very first machine made coins of the Americas. Very few exist of the 1/2 to 4 reales (fewer than 10 of each denomination per Yonaka) and about 40-50 8 reales exist in all grades.

    If ever there are more collectors of Mexico that would be the date I would think that would have a great chance of exploding in value (other coins as well there are many many very rare Latin American coins).

    It's early, but I can already anticipate this thread will be profiling coins that aren't actually "sleepers". It's not like any US Mint coin or series is "undiscovered", unless it's supposed to be some specialization which outside of a few series, has limited to virtually no interest.

    The examples you used (same series but different mint to those I collect) bear no similarity to what you are going to see posted here. Most Latin coinage also lacks sufficient prominence and doesn't exist in the quality correlating to much higher US prices either.

    Just showing members here that Latin America offers many sleeper coins. To me the milled 1732's stand out for obvious reasons but there are many sleeper coins of Mexico and other Latin American countries. Will see with time as of now in 2024 the US population is made up of 25% of people with a Latin American heritage that is up 6% from only a few years ago. If ever these citizens decide to collect they may one day decide to go after their ''home countries'' and that could turn the tide easily been so many of the coins from these countries are scarce to extremely rare. Maybe it will happen and maybe it will not only time will tell.

    I am able to explain why this thinking is unlikely to materialize (and have elsewhere repeatedly) but it's off topic.

  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,435 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2024 5:26PM

    @WCC said:

    I am able to explain why this thinking is unlikely to materialize (and have elsewhere repeatedly) but it's off topic.

    We have talked this over on the world coin side some say it will never happen and others it may happen. We will see with time as anything else in life. I will leave it at that since this is the US part of the forum.

  • tommy44tommy44 Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Almost any $5 gold half eagle from 1858 through 1877 with the exception of the 1861 P and maybe the 1873 Ps are sleepers in my opinion. Underrated and probably under priced. Try to put together a set and they will be the last holes to get filled.

    it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In MS66 the unpopular Washington Carvers with low market values dominate the scarcest 20 commemoratives in the 144 coin set. Within that group, a MS66 1935-D Boone doesn't get any respect. While recently increasing in value, a MS66 with a population of 134+9 coins and a $450 value, is still a bargain compared to the believed key Boone, the 1934/35 -S with a MS66 population of 143+6 and a $950 value.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @manlye1 said:

    @Nysoto said:
    1801 dime mintage 34,640 PCGS pop in VF30 is 1, value $5000
    compare to:
    1916-D dime mintage 264,000 PCGS pop in VF30 is 107, value $6750

    The only 1801 dime in PCGS VF30:


    1800 and 1801 dimes are greatly unappreciated, the 1803 is even a greater sleeper. There are more 1794 dollars in XF and higher than 1803 dimes ponder that for a bit.

    It's probably because the prices for bust dimes are most influenced by type collectors. That's what the Heritage archive data indicates.

    As for the 1916-D dime, I too think it should be worth less than bust dimes, because I think the price should be much lower than current market.

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,007 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think both 2022 uncirculated gold commems would qualify as sleeper dates. Mintages well below 2000, bullion value $564 each, available for under $900 each.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,435 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2024 6:12AM

    @PillarDollarCollector said:
    I am not a US coin collector I collect Latin America I would go with any milled 1732 from 1/2 real up to 8 reales the very first machine made coins of the Americas. Very few exist of the 1/2 to 4 reales (fewer than 10 of each denomination per Yonaka more if you count varieties in certain cases but still less than 20 exist) and about 40-50 8 reales exist in all grades.

    If ever there are more collectors of Mexico that would be the date I would think that would have a great chance of exploding in value (other coins as well there are many many very rare Latin American coins).

    Image taken off the internet this is not my coin just an example so people here see what I am talking about:

    This gives a better context of rarity for those not familiar with this series. In last 4-5 years I have seen this many 1732 milled coins from Mexico sold:

    1/2 real = 1 (dealer pulled it so did not sell)
    1 real = 2 sold
    2 reales = 0 sold
    4 reales = 3 or 4 sold
    8 reales = 8 to 10 sold (40-50 known in all grades starts at about 12 000$ up to over 100 000$ depending on grade) they seem to show up about twice per year based on the last 4-5 years

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Without looking at the prices of each coin posted to this point, I can infer why these coins aren't perceived as those who posted it think it should be:

    *The series has too many coins making it too expensive for practically all collectors and it's not bought for type sets.
    *The series is composed of an above average or disproportionate number of (somewhat) scarce or (somewhat) rare coins diluting the significance of any individual coin.
    *The scarcity and/or price difference isn't meaningful to most collectors. Usually, neither the "sleeper" or the alternates are actually hard to buy.
    *The coin or series has a below average or low design preference.
    *The coin isn't actually a "sleeper" based upon general perception of its collective attributes.

    Even with the size of the US collector base, there may be a "sleeper" somewhere, but I'd find it easier to identify "anti-sleeper" candidates, those more likely to lose substantial proportional value in the future.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PillarDollarCollector said:

    I am not a US coin collector I collect Latin America I would go with any milled 1732 from 1/2 real up to 8 reales the very first machine made coins of the Americas. Very few exist of the 1/2 to 4 reales (fewer than 10 of each denomination per Yonaka more if you count varieties in certain cases but still less than 20 exist) and about 40-50 8 reales exist in all grades.

    If ever there are more collectors of Mexico that would be the date I would think that would have a great chance of exploding in value (other coins as well there are many many very rare Latin American coins).

    This gives a better context of rarity for those not familiar with this series. In last 4-5 years I have seen this many 1732 milled coins from Mexico sold:

    1/2 real = 1 (dealer pulled it so did not sell)
    1 real = 2 sold
    2 reales = 0 sold
    4 reales = 3 or 4 sold
    8 reales = 8 to 10 sold (40-50 known in all grades starts at about 12 000$ up to over 100 000$ depending on grade) they seem to show up about twice per year based on the last 4-5 years

    If you're looking for a "sleeper from this series, try the 1770 Mexico 2R. It almost never sells (to my knowledge) and it's one few know is quite scarce. Anyone who knows anything about pillar coinage is aware of the current perception for all 1732 Mexico denominations.

    I collect pillars (it's about all I buy), but I'm not sure any of them qualify as a "sleeper". For this to be true, it concurrently means too many other Latin coins must be too, creating the situation where too high a proportion of the existing collector base could or will be priced out of what they want to buy.

    That's never happened at this scale in coin collecting with anything to my knowledge.

  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,435 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2024 8:18AM

    @WCC said:

    @PillarDollarCollector said:

    I am not a US coin collector I collect Latin America I would go with any milled 1732 from 1/2 real up to 8 reales the very first machine made coins of the Americas. Very few exist of the 1/2 to 4 reales (fewer than 10 of each denomination per Yonaka more if you count varieties in certain cases but still less than 20 exist) and about 40-50 8 reales exist in all grades.

    If ever there are more collectors of Mexico that would be the date I would think that would have a great chance of exploding in value (other coins as well there are many many very rare Latin American coins).

    This gives a better context of rarity for those not familiar with this series. In last 4-5 years I have seen this many 1732 milled coins from Mexico sold:

    1/2 real = 1 (dealer pulled it so did not sell)
    1 real = 2 sold
    2 reales = 0 sold
    4 reales = 3 or 4 sold
    8 reales = 8 to 10 sold (40-50 known in all grades starts at about 12 000$ up to over 100 000$ depending on grade) they seem to show up about twice per year based on the last 4-5 years

    If you're looking for a "sleeper from this series, try the 1770 Mexico 2R. It almost never sells (to my knowledge) and it's one few know is quite scarce. Anyone who knows anything about pillar coinage is aware of the current perception for all 1732 Mexico denominations.

    I collect pillars (it's about all I buy), but I'm not sure any of them qualify as a "sleeper". For this to be true, it concurrently means too many other Latin coins must be too, creating the situation where too high a proportion of the existing collector base could or will be priced out of what they want to buy.

    That's never happened at this scale in coin collecting with anything to my knowledge.

    Possible sleepers I am not saying 100% sure just simply maybe one day possible is all and possibly not as well. As mentioned before I do not care if my coins increase in value or not I simply enjoy collecting what I collect. You are correct WCC there are to many possible sleepers in Latin American coinage. I just wanted to state the obvious about the milled 1732's to those who may like to learn about such coins and see what some of us other collectors are up against in terms of rarity on the world side of things. I like learning myself so I figured there are people on these boards that would appreciate learning new things about other coins outside the USA. Again maybe I am wrong.

    I could be wrong but my gut was that not many here know about what is obvious to us the milled 1732's coins of Mexico. I had no idea of them until I started collecting Latin American coins 4-5 years ago.

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jinx86 said:
    Population of MS 1895 O Barber Dimes is often over looked.

    It's the key coin for the set; but, definitely at $24,000 in PCGS MS64 not a sleeper. There are 21 of them between PCGS MS64 & MS67. Contrast that with 30 1899-0 @ $2,000.

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WCC said:

    Even with the size of the US collector base, there may be a "sleeper" somewhere, but I'd find it easier to identify "anti-sleeper" candidates, those more likely to lose substantial proportional value in the future.

    If there are anti-sleeper candidates within a series, the converse is also true.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:

    @WCC said:

    Even with the size of the US collector base, there may be a "sleeper" somewhere, but I'd find it easier to identify "anti-sleeper" candidates, those more likely to lose substantial proportional value in the future.

    If there are anti-sleeper candidates within a series, the converse is also true.

    In theory, except that I can make a much better case for "anti-sleeper" candidates than anything I have read here.

    Of the coins profiled so far in this thread, the best candidate to me is the 1894-O dime but it isn't from a series with a high preference. It's somewhat below average at best, and this coin isn't inexpensive now.

    The question is "sleeper" compared to what?

    The same coin in a different grade? Other dates in the series? Versus coins in other US series? Versus non-US coinage?

    Every collector has their preference, but most collectors (very few proportionately) will completely ignore similarly priced alternatives. Practically every coin is competing against something else for collector budget since almost no one can buy everything they want. Unless the entire market or market segment is also increasing, any substantial increase will usually make a candidate "sleeper" uncompetitive with the alternatives collectors are most likely to buy.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PillarDollarCollector said:

    Possible sleepers I am not saying 100% sure just simply maybe one day possible is all and possibly not as well. As mentioned before I do not care if my coins increase in value or not I simply enjoy collecting what I collect. You are correct WCC there are to many possible sleepers in Latin American coinage. I just wanted to state the obvious about the milled 1732's to those who may like to learn about such coins and see what some of us other collectors are up against in terms of rarity on the world side of things. I like learning myself so I figured there are people on these boards that would appreciate learning new things about other coins outside the USA. Again maybe I am wrong.

    I could be wrong but my gut was that not many here know about what is obvious to us the milled 1732's coins of Mexico. I had no idea of them until I started collecting Latin American coins 4-5 years ago.

    Since we aren't discussing physics or chemistry, there are no absolutes, but I used to tell South African collectors a similar thing I'm telling you now. Yes, maybe the very low number of highest quality or most prominent coins will increase substantially and materially but it's very unlikely to be much more than that. Any substantial increase in one coin or series will make it uncompetitive with competing alternatives. Everything scarce or rare is also unlikely to go up simultaneously because it would price out practically everyone who currently collects it out of everything they actually want to buy.

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WCC said:

    @DisneyFan said:

    @WCC said:

    Even with the size of the US collector base, there may be a "sleeper" somewhere, but I'd find it easier to identify "anti-sleeper" candidates, those more likely to lose substantial proportional value in the future.

    If there are anti-sleeper candidates within a series, the converse is also true.

    In theory, except that I can make a much better case for "anti-sleeper" candidates than anything I have read here.

    Of the coins profiled so far in this thread, the best candidate to me is the 1894-O dime but it isn't from a series with a high preference. It's somewhat below average at best, and this coin isn't inexpensive now.

    Did you mean to say 1895-O? Or are you changing the subject to a 1894-O? I was referring to the 1895-O.

    The question is "sleeper" compared to what?

    It's the key coin for the set; but, definitely at $24,000 in PCGS MS64 not a sleeper. There are 21 of them between PCGS MS64 & MS67. Contrast that with 30 1899-0 @ $2,000.

    We agree about the 1895-O. But what about the 1899-O Barber Dime?

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:

    Did you mean to say 1895-O? Or are you changing the subject to a 1894-O? I was referring to the 1895-O.

    Someone above posted the 1894-O.

    @DisneyFan said:

    The question is "sleeper" compared to what?

    It's the key coin for the set; but, definitely at $24,000 in PCGS MS64 not a sleeper. There are 21 of them between PCGS MS64 & MS67. Contrast that with 30 1899-0 @ $2,000.

    We agree about the 1895-O. But what about the 1899-O Barber Dime?

    I think you combined quotes from my posts with someone else's. I don't have an opinion on the 1899-O.

    It might actually be one.

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WCC said:

    @DisneyFan said:

    Did you mean to say 1895-O? Or are you changing the subject to a 1894-O? I was referring to the 1895-O.

    Someone above posted the 1894-O.

    @DisneyFan said:

    The question is "sleeper" compared to what?

    It's the key coin for the set; but, definitely at $24,000 in PCGS MS64 not a sleeper. There are 21 of them between PCGS MS64 & MS67. Contrast that with 30 1899-0 @ $2,000.

    We agree about the 1895-O. But what about the 1899-O Barber Dime?

    I think you combined quotes from my posts with someone else's. I don't have an opinion on the 1899-O.

    It might actually be one.

    Sorry - I can't find the posting you are referring to of a 1894-O and your statement "It might actually be one." is confusing.

  • tommy44tommy44 Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2024 6:22PM


    it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

  • fastfreddiefastfreddie Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ranshdow said:

    @fastfreddie said:
    1840 in general is a sleeper.

    Agree.
    Love it!! Great coin! and a wow for me!

    It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.

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