My bank's Brinks driver has been opening/searching the Half Dollar boxes!

joeykoins

Hi guys,
Boy o' boy! What next?
I've been noticing at my local main bank. Where I do order Half Dollar Bank boxes from. The driver goes through the box or boxes before he drops them off at the bank!
Then, he rewraps them.
Do any of you experience the same thing?
Now I definitely know, they are NOT allowed to do this!
It happened to me twice. Both times I refused to purchase the box. The tellers all agree with me. They are very supportive of my request to only purchase "Unopened" boxes.
I pick another box up tomorrow (Wednesday) we shall see if it happens again?
If so, no more ordering from them!
Opinions?
Thank you ALL!

BLUEJAYWAY

Sorry for your dilemma. Not much surprises me anymore. Hope your situation improves.

Martin

@JoeyCoins you should check at Brinks to see if they are hiring🤪

No more ordering

Martin

joeykoins

The more I think of it???

It just crossed my mind!
I hope, the tellers aren't the true culprits!
They would seem to have more spare time than the drivers?

BLUEJAYWAY

@joeykoins said:
The more I think of it???

It just crossed my mind!
I hope, the tellers aren't the true culprits!
They would seem to have more spare time than the drivers?

And know what to look for if you have opened up to them about your roll finds.

joeykoins

Maybe?
I never were specific about the Silver just mentioning about certain dates I look for!

johnny9434

It's a conspiracy 😠

JBK

"Loose lips sink ships". Discretion is the better part of valor. 🤐

They (either the bank or Brinks) see you ordering all these boxes. Someone has been thinking about the reason. Or maybe someone is trying to teach you a lesson.

Onastone

My daughter worked as a teller with a great group of coworkers and when they became aware of the older coins and currency, they'd separate them on one side of their drawer and buy them later. Buffalo nickels, mercury dimes, silver halves, two dollar bills, silver certificates and older looking bills. Maybe you should consider a side job as a teller!!!

But opening boxes is crossing the line...especially if coinage is not needed in their drawers like halves. They didn't do that.

jmlanzaf

I see no reason why the driver or tellers would not have the right to search the coins. You order a box of halves not a box of unsearched halves. They are only responsible for making sure you get the right face value.

That said, how can you tell they were searched if they are re-rolled?

Tomthemailcarrier

@jmlanzaf said:
I see no reason why the driver or tellers would not have the right to search the coins. You order a box of halves not a box of unsearched halves. They are only responsible for making sure you get the right face value.

That said, how can you tell they were searched if they are re-rolled?

I agree that tellers should be able to do so. Drivers not so much. Are the drivers doing it on company time and are they permitted to “mess with” the rolls? What if there was a short count on a roll that they opened?

291fifth

Since you don't actually know who is going through the boxes you would best advised to just live with the situation. There is no crime here. When you order a box of half dollars that is really all you are entitled to ... a box of half dollars. They have no obligation to provide you with unsearched or unopened boxes. As long as you get the face value you paid for you really don't have anything to complain about.

JWP

I picked up a box of nickels from Credit union which the driver had dropped. I did not check it at the bank, but it was missing 1 roll. Did not do anything about it but will refuse the next open box they hand to me. I would still get boxes from your bank, just refuse opened boxes. The drivers and the tellers should not be searching the boxes. It is a box of coins and the boxes are sealed so they do not have to search them.

jmlanzaf

@Tomthemailcarrier said:

@jmlanzaf said:
I see no reason why the driver or tellers would not have the right to search the coins. You order a box of halves not a box of unsearched halves. They are only responsible for making sure you get the right face value.

That said, how can you tell they were searched if they are re-rolled?

I agree that tellers should be able to do so. Drivers not so much. Are the drivers doing it on company time and are they permitted to “mess with” the rolls? What if there was a short count on a roll that they opened?

@Tomthemailcarrier said:

@jmlanzaf said:
I see no reason why the driver or tellers would not have the right to search the coins. You order a box of halves not a box of unsearched halves. They are only responsible for making sure you get the right face value.

That said, how can you tell they were searched if they are re-rolled?

I agree that tellers should be able to do so. Drivers not so much. Are the drivers doing it on company time and are they permitted to “mess with” the rolls? What if there was a short count on a roll that they opened?

Oh, I agree. I wouldn't want my employees at either the bank or the armored car to be doing it. And, as you say, especially the armored car driver who is not the end user. But, the only thing the end user is promised is $500 in halves not $500 in "unsearched" halves.

Manifest_Destiny

Armored car drivers are on a tight schedule, and monitored. Not sure where they find an hour of downtime to search boxes and re-roll coins. Far more likely the teller does it and blames the driver.

logger7

I looked at a collection earlier in the week where an aunt was a banker who separated out all the 90% silver and Morgan rolls that came in during her career, tens of thousands of dollars worth. They can't do that legally any more.

Kurisu

@joeykoins said:
Hi guys,
Boy o' boy! What next?
I've been noticing at my local main bank. Where I do order Half Dollar Bank boxes from. The driver goes through the box or boxes before he drops them off at the bank!
Then, he rewraps them.
Do any of you experience the same thing?
Now I definitely know, they are NOT allowed to do this!
It happened to me twice. Both times I refused to purchase the box. The tellers all agree with me. They are very supportive of my request to only purchase "Unopened" boxes.
I pick another box up tomorrow (Wednesday) we shall see if it happens again?
If so, no more ordering from them!
Opinions?
Thank you ALL!

I feel like something may be missing here Joey...what bank is it? If you don't mind me asking.

Brinks folks are on camera everywhere in and around the trucks/vans. And they'd need to bring empty rolls (and dispose of the empty machine rolled papers) with them in order to make it an on the job hobby.

Tellers...well, no bank mangers would want tellers spending time going through rolls on the job, other than verifying counts in the rolls received from customers. Which some of my Chase bank tellers have told me they've had to do, but usually only the small dollars rolls. I know tellers who pay more attention to what's in their cash drawers but none that open rolls to search. Because that's not profitable for the bank or adding to their bottom line.

Maybe some of your bank branches are just moving boxes around via brinks rather than paying to have brinks re-roll or something? It just strikes me as an exceptionally odd situation having been a manager in large cash handling environments...

Because every additional time money or product is touched by a human the potential for errors and shrink goes up.

CaptHenway

How much extra are you paying your bank for all the work they do ordering the coins for you and then presumably taking them back after you have had your way with them and having to ship them back to some coin depot?

jmlanzaf

@CaptHenway said:
How much extra are you paying your bank for all the work they do ordering the coins for you and then presumably taking them back after you have had your way with them and having to ship them back to some coin depot?

Especially half dollars that no businesses use.

joeykoins

@jmlanzaf said:
I see no reason why the driver or tellers would not have the right to search the coins. You order a box of halves not a box of unsearched halves. They are only responsible for making sure you get the right face value.

That said, how can you tell they were searched if they are re-rolled?

First of all the box itself, was unsealed. Meaning, the tape that seals the box had been slit.
Plus, each roll was obviously opened with the end loosely rewrapped.

joeykoins

@Kurisu said:

@joeykoins said:
Hi guys,
Boy o' boy! What next?
I've been noticing at my local main bank. Where I do order Half Dollar Bank boxes from. The driver goes through the box or boxes before he drops them off at the bank!
Then, he rewraps them.
Do any of you experience the same thing?
Now I definitely know, they are NOT allowed to do this!
It happened to me twice. Both times I refused to purchase the box. The tellers all agree with me. They are very supportive of my request to only purchase "Unopened" boxes.
I pick another box up tomorrow (Wednesday) we shall see if it happens again?
If so, no more ordering from them!
Opinions?
Thank you ALL!

I feel like something may be missing here Joey...what bank is it? If you don't mind me asking.

Brinks folks are on camera everywhere in and around the trucks/vans. And they'd need to bring empty rolls (and dispose of the empty machine rolled papers) with them in order to make it an on the job hobby.

Tellers...well, no bank mangers would want tellers spending time going through rolls on the job, other than verifying counts in the rolls received from customers. Which some of my Chase bank tellers have told me they've had to do, but usually only the small dollars rolls. I know tellers who pay more attention to what's in their cash drawers but none that open rolls to search. Because that's not profitable for the bank or adding to their bottom line.

Maybe some of your bank branches are just moving boxes around via brinks rather than paying to have brinks re-roll or something? It just strikes me as an exceptionally odd situation having been a manager in large cash handling environments...

Because every additional time money or product is touched by a human the potential for errors and shrink goes up.

To tell you the truth,
I'm not quite sure which company delivers the coins,
Brinks
Loomis
Garda
???

Coinscratch

You've gotten too cozy with one bank. I would stop going there for at least a year and find others many others.
Besides, the mother lode won't come from a fed box. It will hit all at once from an accidental collection dump.
Savoir Faire is everywhere!

291fifth

There could be heirs out there right now who are on the way to the bank to dump those old coins that nobody uses anymore at the bank.

MarkKelley

@Coinscratch said:
You've gotten too cozy with one bank. I would stop going there for at least a year and find others many others.
Besides, the mother lode won't come from a fed box. It will hit all at once from an accidental collection dump.
Savoir Faire is everywhere!

Not necessarily from an accidental collection dump. It could be from a stolen collection. Believe me, I KNOW.

joeykoins

You may be right.
I do go to many others already.
It's just that this bank is the closest and the most friendliest.
I did notice new employees too!

joeykoins

@291fifth said:
There could be heirs out there right now who are on the way to the bank to dump those old coins that nobody uses anymore at the bank.

I'm sure boxes fall into all three categories at one point.

WillieBoyd2

Those of us in the Coinstar searching world have similar beliefs about store employees.

mr1931S

@joeykoins said:
The more I think of it???

It just crossed my mind!
I hope, the tellers aren't the true culprits!
They would seem to have more spare time than the drivers?

Cameras all over the place in a bank.

jesbroken

I would complain to both Brinks and the bank management. Don't think they may get mad and not order you more. Look at the time they are costing you and they are knowingly doing so. They must know you are going to search the rolls and do not care about the time you lose, so do not tolerate this behavior...report and document.
Jim

CRHer700

@joeykoins said:

@jmlanzaf said:
I see no reason why the driver or tellers would not have the right to search the coins. You order a box of halves not a box of unsearched halves. They are only responsible for making sure you get the right face value.

That said, how can you tell they were searched if they are re-rolled?

First of all the box itself, was unsealed. Meaning, the tape that seals the box had been slit.
Plus, each roll was obviously opened with the end loosely rewrapped.

Where do you live Joey? You might be getting my rolls.

Manifest_Destiny

Joey, I hope you take this in good fun, as it's meant.

CRHer700

@Manifest_Destiny said:
Joey, I hope you take this in good fun, as it's meant.

My banks know not to give me my boxes back. I can tell what was mine and refuse it. I have however, twice received boxes that had been gone through by me, returned to the bank, returned to Loomis, put in new boxes and sent out to me again! I know because the coins were still in my rolls! I also once got a sealed half dollar box that was half CWRs from someone else.

JBK

I think I heard of another time where someone got a box of CWRs from a bank order.

If you or someone else returned a box of rolled coins it might just have gone back into the vault to await the next order.

Loose coins would need to be machine rolled before sending back out to banks, but since halfs don't actually circulate maybe someone figured why bother re-rolling them if they had been returned in rolls.

CRHer700

@Manifest_Destiny said:
Armored car drivers are on a tight schedule, and monitored. Not sure where they find an hour of downtime to search boxes and re-roll coins. Far more likely the teller does it and blames the driver.

Loomis drivers, at least, have zero schedule. They have to deliver on Tuesday, but sometimes they are there when the bank opens, and sometimes they come two hours after they close! The bank tellers have to sit and wait for them. Also, they sometimes just pull a fast one and don't give the bank an coins for a week. There was one week back in March I think, that they shirked their duties on the whole chain, and none of the banks had any coins.

CRHer700

@JWP said:
I picked up a box of nickels from Credit union which the driver had dropped. I did not check it at the bank, but it was missing 1 roll. Did not do anything about it but will refuse the next open box they hand to me. I would still get boxes from your bank, just refuse opened boxes. The drivers and the tellers should not be searching the boxes. It is a box of coins and the boxes are sealed so they do not have to search them.

I also have had this happen, except worse. A box of nickels was missing 20 rolls and didn't even have a hole! The tellers gave me a different box though.

JWP

@CRHer700 My box was dropped, and I was told the driver put the loose coins back in the box. I did mention to the CU the next time I was there, but $2 was not a real problem. They have always been great to me, and o did not see a reason to file a claim for $2. Noe $40 is a different story. The weight difference in the box is very obvious too. P glad the teller swapped the box out for you.

PerryHall

Another CRH searched that box and replaced any coins that they removed. They then returned the box to the bank and the bank put it back in their vault. The only other person to search that box is another CRH. It's the only explanation that makes sense.

jmlanzaf

@CRHer700 said:

@joeykoins said:

@jmlanzaf said:
I see no reason why the driver or tellers would not have the right to search the coins. You order a box of halves not a box of unsearched halves. They are only responsible for making sure you get the right face value.

That said, how can you tell they were searched if they are re-rolled?

First of all the box itself, was unsealed. Meaning, the tape that seals the box had been slit.
Plus, each roll was obviously opened with the end loosely rewrapped.

Where do you live Joey? You might be getting my rolls.

I still don't see why they can't give you an unsealed box of rolls. If they had a box of loosely wrapped coins from a customer, he'd jump all over them. In fact, couldn't the box have been from such a source. Why is your bank obligated to get you a sealed box from Brinks rather than just give you whatever box they have laying around?

jmlanzaf

If I ran a bank, I'd immediately ban coin orders from anyone with a balance less than $1 million.

CRHer700

@jmlanzaf said:

@CRHer700 said:

@joeykoins said:

@jmlanzaf said:
I see no reason why the driver or tellers would not have the right to search the coins. You order a box of halves not a box of unsearched halves. They are only responsible for making sure you get the right face value.

That said, how can you tell they were searched if they are re-rolled?

First of all the box itself, was unsealed. Meaning, the tape that seals the box had been slit.
Plus, each roll was obviously opened with the end loosely rewrapped.

Where do you live Joey? You might be getting my rolls.

I still don't see why they can't give you an unsealed box of rolls. If they had a box of loosely wrapped coins from a customer, he'd jump all over them. In fact, couldn't the box have been from such a source. Why is your bank obligated to get you a sealed box from Brinks rather than just give you whatever box they have laying around?

They can, as long as they are sealed rolls or CWRs. Open MWR half dollar rolls are the problem.

Edit: what I mean to say is; if you ever see unsealed MWRs, there is a 99% chance that they are gone through. CWRs most of the time are too, but there is a possibility of good stuff.

Fraz

Drivers of all types of delivery trucks have to wait to load or unload trucks. They nap, read, watch jets takeoff and land—on the clock, especially if they are union members. Does any delivery business have a policy that says it is kosher to peruse the contents of cargo?
The companies that move coins and currency do not want drivers going through the damn money.

JBK

@CRHer700 said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@CRHer700 said:

@joeykoins said:

@jmlanzaf said:
I see no reason why the driver or tellers would not have the right to search the coins. You order a box of halves not a box of unsearched halves. They are only responsible for making sure you get the right face value.

That said, how can you tell they were searched if they are re-rolled?

First of all the box itself, was unsealed. Meaning, the tape that seals the box had been slit.
Plus, each roll was obviously opened with the end loosely rewrapped.

Where do you live Joey? You might be getting my rolls.

I still don't see why they can't give you an unsealed box of rolls. If they had a box of loosely wrapped coins from a customer, he'd jump all over them. In fact, couldn't the box have been from such a source. Why is your bank obligated to get you a sealed box from Brinks rather than just give you whatever box they have laying around?

They are obliged to give me what I ordered. I open all of my boxes at the bank to make sure that they are correct. I would take a box that is opened but has sealed rolls. Open half dollar rolls are a no-no, a waste of time.

Yikes. Tell the bank manager that and I'll bet they stop ordering anything for you. Your hobby costs them money.

Open rolls might be a waste of your time, but the bank is not there to make it worth your time.

291fifth

@jesbroken said:
I would complain to both Brinks and the bank management. Don't think they may get mad and not order you more. Look at the time they are costing you and they are knowingly doing so. They must know you are going to search the rolls and do not care about the time you lose, so do not tolerate this behavior...report and document.
Jim

A likely result would be a shutdown on handling of requests for boxes of coins by the bank. Roll searchers are essentially a source of profit drain for the banks. I'm surprised they even handle such requests unless they come from business clients that have accounts that generate substantial income for the bank.

JBK

When I dabble in roll searching, my formula is to be one part discreet and the other part discreet. And aside from that I try to use discretion in dealing with the tellers.

I try to fly under the radar as much as possible, on both ends of the roll searching process.

CRHer700

@JBK said:

@CRHer700 said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@CRHer700 said:

@joeykoins said:

@jmlanzaf said:
I see no reason why the driver or tellers would not have the right to search the coins. You order a box of halves not a box of unsearched halves. They are only responsible for making sure you get the right face value.

That said, how can you tell they were searched if they are re-rolled?

First of all the box itself, was unsealed. Meaning, the tape that seals the box had been slit.
Plus, each roll was obviously opened with the end loosely rewrapped.

Where do you live Joey? You might be getting my rolls.

I still don't see why they can't give you an unsealed box of rolls. If they had a box of loosely wrapped coins from a customer, he'd jump all over them. In fact, couldn't the box have been from such a source. Why is your bank obligated to get you a sealed box from Brinks rather than just give you whatever box they have laying around?

They are obliged to give me what I ordered. I open all of my boxes at the bank to make sure that they are correct. I would take a box that is opened but has sealed rolls. Open half dollar rolls are a no-no, a waste of time.

Yikes. Tell the bank manager that and I'll bet they stop ordering anything for you. Your hobby costs them money.

Open rolls might be a waste of your time, but the bank is not there to make it worth your time.

The thing is, they rarely offer opened rolls. I don't mean to sound entitled, but if I randomly stop in and ask for coins and they do, I politely tell them that I will pass. If I order coins, I get the exact boxes that I ordered, which should be unopened.

CRHer700

@JBK said:
When I dabble in roll searching, my formula is to be one part discreet and the other part discreet. And aside from that I try to use discretion in dealing with the tellers.

I try to fly under the radar as much as possible, on both ends of the roll searching process.

I do the opposite, I make sure they know exactly what I'm doing.

lermish

Potentially unpopular opinion...I've worked for and at a bank for 16 years.

Handling coins is massively expensive. It is a complete cost center for banks to the point that most business accounts have to pay for all cash/coin being deposited over a fairly small amount. Even big businesses, although they typically earn credits towards the expense based on balances. The vast majority of customers with average balance checking/savings accounts (not loans, investing, credit card, etc) are NOT profitable to the bank. Which is fine but to expect lots of free services given that is unreasonable. There is a reason so many bank branches are closing across the nation.

All of that being said, given the amount of time, effort, and money your profitable hobby costs the bank, you should be grateful they allow you to do this at all.

jmlanzaf

@lermish said:
Potentially unpopular opinion...I've worked for and at a bank for 16 years.

Handling coins is massively expensive. It is a complete cost center for banks to the point that most business accounts have to pay for all cash/coin being deposited over a fairly small amount. Even big businesses, although they typically earn credits towards the expense based on balances. The vast majority of customers with average balance checking/savings accounts (not loans, investing, credit card, etc) are NOT profitable to the bank. Which is fine but to expect lots of free services given that is unreasonable. There is a reason so many bank branches are closing across the nation.

All of that being said, given the amount of time, effort, and money your profitable hobby costs the bank, you should be grateful they allow you to do this at all.

Well said.

jesbroken

When you do not report illegal activity, then you are saying it is ok. In order to maintain law and order we may have to suffer some small amount. Also, I would bet due to the lack of coins available at banks in boxes, the banks may soon prevent of the return of coinage unless in the original sealed boxes. That would prevent or at least slow down the CRHing from ordering boxes and save them money. Don't get me wrong, I searched rolls most of my life. Just never in boxes ordered but in rolled coins available as the bank had them. Good luck to all in this endeavor.
Jim

joeykoins

You guys are correct when saying they give us what they want.
However, most banks are WILLING to please us customers. No matter what we ask for!
Sure, from time to time, they do have only customer wrapped, in which I understand. But when they ask, "Do you want us to order a box for you, next week?"
That's a different story.

jmlanzaf

@jesbroken said:
When you do not report illegal activity, then you are saying it is ok. In order to maintain law and order we may have to suffer some small amount. Also, I would bet due to the lack of coins available at banks in boxes, the banks may soon prevent of the return of coinage unless in the original sealed boxes. That would prevent or at least slow down the CRHing from ordering boxes and save them money. Don't get me wrong, I searched rolls most of my life. Just never in boxes ordered but in rolled coins available as the bank had them. Good luck to all in this endeavor.
Jim

Is it illegal? Assuming the box is full, what law has been broken? It's really not obvious to me that is illegal. It may be against corporate policy, but why isn't $500 in halves $500 in halves?