Be On the Lookout for These Stolen Coins
MarkKelley
Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭✭✭
On May 22 I mailed a package from Oakwood, GA to Rehoboth, MA. It was a medium flat rate box containing 2000 Kennedy half dollars dated 1965 to 1969. When the box was delivered six days later, it was in a USPS "body bag", ripped open and empty. The coins were all in Loomis type white paper rolls with black printing and machine crimped on both ends. There was one date per roll, and they were marked as such with black Sharpie. I know this is a longshot, but if any of these turn up anywhere, I would appreciate knowing about it.
Also, can anyone provide a contact for the Numismatic Crime site?
5
Comments
Here's a good start.....so sorry for your loss.
Please contact the Numismatic Crime Information Center’s Doug Davis. You can reach him at (817) 723-7231, or email him at doug@numismaticcrimes.org
NCIC Report Form
Sorry to hear about the loss.
Did you also notify the postal inspectors yet?
I'm surprised you got 100 rolls of 40% in a medium rate box!
That's over 50 lbs!
Were these BU?
55 pounds according to the Google.
If it were me they'd be secured so no movement, double boxed, and at least a roll of packing tape for reinforcement.
That's what I was just thinking. 2000 coins, 100 rolls over 50lbs in a medium flat rate box??? I would have major questions and concerns about doing something like that!
Plus, $1,000 in face / $9,432.64 in silver value??.......Not a chance in hell would I have ever shipped that!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I would have shipped in multiple boxes or crate it with the full load.
53 pounds, to be exact. The limit is 70. I've shipped coins now for 40 years and I know how to package them securely. No movement was possible, they were double boxed (a wooden box inside the USPS one) and slathered in heavy duty shipping tape. I didn't say the box was burst open, I said it was ripped open. There's no way to prevent a deliberate act.
To answer a couple of your questions, the coins were a mix of circ. and BU, and I have filed a claim, not that I have much hope. And thank you, Goldbully for the link.
I always wonder why the thief feels compelled to leave the pilferred box in the mail stream. Do they think anyone will be fooled?
So just curious, what would you have done if you had made the sale?
You did fine. The only thing I would have done differently is sending it registered. There's a $5000 insurance limit and a bullion/ cash exception for priority mail.
I ship double bags of wheat cents in flat rate priority. They weigh 69 pounds but are only $500 value
Let him come get it or never had made a sale like that.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Just spitballing ideas, but perhaps leaving the box in the mail stream eliminates any suspicion to the thief's specific mail center. Imagine the mail gets lost, it gives the postal service a place to look and cameras to check because we have the last place it was located. If there is no specific location noted, it is impossible to track exactly unless USPS keeps notes of when the packages are observed as destroyed.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
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JRCS #1606
Shoulda, woulda and coulda are easy after the fact. It's no help.
Well, I guess it is what it is.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
If a postal worker is going to pilfer a Priority Mail package, does he consider a heavy box a possible pay day?
What is triggering his thought process?
Precious metals? Concrete block....nah!! Critical parts for aerospace?
Heavy box=more valuable?
Just trying to get inside a thief's mind here.
I truly hope you have good news @MarkKelley coming your way very soon.
Hang in there and keep us posted.
You forgot your contact information on each box under the well taped boxes.
Not that UPS...USPS... FedEx would take the time to call you on an issue.
I sent $840 Ikes to a guy back east from Arizona.
Medium flat rate USPS box inside a large USPS flat rate box.
Every 5 rolls or so were in a Ziploc bag well taped with my business card.
It got there without issue.
Triggered a funny story. Had a tour guide of mine on a Caravan tour to Mount Rushmore etc. that shipped home flat rate priority mail boxes full of granite rocks from the Crazy Horse carving that he was going to use in his garden. At the time I think a large flat rate box cost about $8.00 to ship.
Meanwhile, I hope @MarkKelley gets some good news soon.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
I've done similar.
On a visit to a particular beach in Washington state I picked up some of the rocks that had been worn down by the constant wave activity until they were smooth, rounded and disk-shaped. I jammed them into a flat rate box and sent them home.
These boxes travel through a pretty automated system that could not handle a damaged box. I’m always amazed at the quick turnaround time from each regional distribution center receiving and departure. Three days would sound like the norm for GA to MA. Does the tracking give any indication where the shipment stalled? My guess would be the center right before the recipient’s post office.
@OAKSTAR
Have you never sent a package with a coin or coins worth over $10K before?
If you had to send a coin worth $15k what would you do walk it across the country?
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I'm not @OAKSTAR but I have sent multiple six-figure packages around the country. In my experience, private insurance is the only way to go.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I don't ship enough packages to warrent Private Insurance, I just send it registered mail and don't eat for a week till the package shows up
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
At least the plastic body bag can be used as proof that your coins were stolen by a postal employee or one of their contractors. Hopefully they were well insured and the postal system doesn't give you a hard time with the "prove what was in your box" and "prove what they are worth" nonsense.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Call the Postal Inspectors 24hr Emergency #
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If you have a numismatic mishap, will be sure to show you the same compassion you have shown the the OP.
Don’t blame the victim.
Fortunately or unfortunately, this level of commerce is out of my realm of possibility.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Should have been some fingerprints all over the ripped open container?
I learn from these types of stories posted here. I've had a few numismatic mishaps over the years. If something like this happens, I take it personnel (but that's just me.) I blame myself, whether it's my fault or not.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I've shipped some very heavy boxes myself but I don't think I've ever gone over about 40 lbs in a med size box. I usually aim for about 30 lbs. If you pack securely they almost always make it through now days. In the old days heavy packages were like a challenge to the post office and even the heaviest duty cardboard often didn't stand up.
Good luck getting made whole on this.
I once shipped a power steering box to a friend in Oregon from Utah. I used a large flat rate priority box, lined it with plywood and stuffed it with foam so it wouldn't move in the box. The box weighed in at 68lbs, the postal clerk wasn't very happy but rules are rules. When my friend received the box he said it was in perfect condition!!! I guess it was so heavy that they couldn't throw it around.........ha ha ha
I don't have a problem with the way the OP shipped, I just think with that weight he should have reinforced the paper box.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Sorry, I missed that post
You did everything right and the system failed you
Good luck
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
As a dealer with two uninsured packages that were “cut” open, getting on the PO does seem to work. But, expect slow service with registered. My last few packages from me have taken over a month and a half to arrive. And I’ve called over a dozen times which did seem to speed it up. However, this is a big problem for smaller dealers, as private insurance costs versus shipping is a problem for most. I will say we need another safe mailing company, because right now, even with private insurance it’s a tough road. I’ve had more problems in the last 2 years than the previous 20!
First off, I'm sorry this happened. Been there.
FYI you can send Priority Mail registered and insured for full value. We've done it many times. Some say it's not any faster than normal Registered but we've actually had luck with it moving fairly quickly. The $5000 insurance cap mentioned earlier is for non-registered Priority Mail packages.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
New England, Your last 2 years comment is really alarming. I miss the days of making purchases on the BST and all you had to do was pay the friends and family option if you had any concerns.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I do too!! Just the mailing services today are not as “counted on” in my experience the last couple years, and I’ve had to find alternative plans as the losses were pretty tough. (10k+). My last registered package took over 2 months to arrive, and if not already known, unless your coins are appraised by a USPS approved person, the insurance will not be paid out either, no matter if they charged or not (at least what I’ve heard from others). It’s not easy without a safe shipping option: my current shipping, I hop on a plane and deliver!! However that is not possible for 95% I would think!
Why wouldn't you have much hope? It's clear that USPS is responsible for paying you for your loss.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I HIGHLY doubt they are unless I missed something here. That is what I was commenting on above.
Edited to add: sounds like a regular Priority box which even with insurance; would be a problem to collect. I have asked many times how many people have actually received a payout on insurance from USPS, and it’s like at 5% who actually got there, and was a lot of effort and time to do so, including lawyer.
Adding: so yes private insurance is the answer, however this is not as easy as one thinks. My packages often are at 10-50k a piece, but I mostly see my clients at shows. To get insurance for that low amount of shipping but for the cost I need, almost cheaper to fly (yearly cost) as I don’t often need to ship that many packages, just the total cost of each package is the issue on my end!
Wow... this is a Postal Inspector case since there's proof that the package was damaged and pilfered in transit. I hope the OP @MarkKelley can be made whole but this could take quite a bit of time to sort out... best of luck!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
It's definitely not any faster. There's only one registered mail stream. It's not segregated by level of service.
I've never consulted a lawyer and never been denied a USPS insurance claim. I'm highly skeptical of your 5% number.
That said, it is unlikely that the OP would win this case even with a lawyer. A $10k coin shipment cannot be insured via Priority Mail.
With bullion and similar items, valuation is easy for insurance. However, with say a rare colonial variety, it would be pretty difficult for them to agree on a 20k package with no recent results of a prior sale for example. I know two people who are still fighting the claim with a similar suggestion, been over 2 years! At the end of the day, most packages will arrive safe and sound. But multiple for me in the last 12 months have been lost, delayed, stolen, which is enough for me to notice a vast difference between today and 5 years ago. I ship a decent amount for a small coin business using their “higher tier” products, and the difference is noticeable.
Agree that "bullion" can be relatively easier to value. However, do not believe that is it always 'covered' by USPS insurance.
As I understand it, the USPS limits their indemnity to $15.00 on "bullion", except for Registered Mail.
@jmlanzaf mentioned the "bullion" exception earlier. For reference, here is the applicable section of the USPS rules (Domestic Mail Manual):
Source (Section 609; Sub-Section 4.1.m)
Edited for content to improve clarity.
Yup, sent $50k worth of coins,,,there were about 8 coins in the package. Sent registered mail.
I completely agree about the shipping. I mostly collect trading cards now days and for my last submission I was able to hand carry and submit for grading at one of the larger card shows. To send 20K of cards into a 2 month registered mail journey would have been a stressful nightmare. I am glad yours worked out.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Well, it may not be physically segregated initially, but-according to info from our carrier at least- when there is limited space on a truck, priority registered goes on before non-priority registered, and the latter goes only if there is still space in the truck's locked area. When you think about it...why bother to even offer registered priority mail if there's no upside to it?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
USPS recently doubled the cost of insurance.
I have to believe they are actually paying out when they lose a package. It can be much harder when the package is signed for and THEN the receiver says it was damaged. I've collected on the insurance but there was some red tape.
Fighting a usps claim is harder than it’s ever been. There were a couple dealers on Facebook dealing with it, having to jump through hoops and provide all this documentation only for them to come back and only approve a partial payment.
Imo nobody should be relying on usps insurance anymore, there are too many better alternatives. God help you if you end up having to file a claim.
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