UPDATED: Went to a Coin Show - A Few Quick Observations

MidLifeCrisis

I went to a medium size coin show yesterday. First show I've been to in a very long time. I didn't buy anything, but I came away with three observations:
1. The dealers were very friendly.
2. There were far more details coins and damaged coins than I expected. Seemed like there were several at every table I visited. These were coins in PCGS and NGC slabs.
3. There were very few CAC stickered coins or coins in CAC grading service holders. They were hard to find.

Update: I went back to the show today. Some more observations:
4. The dealers were still very friendly.
5. One dealer showed me a Higley Copper in a PCGS holder. It had a low details grade but was still very cool. There are probably no more than between 60 and 80 known. In general, survivors are found on heavily worn planchets in grades of Good to Fine. Specimens above Fine are extremely rare, and Extremely Fine is almost unheard of.
6. The same dealer had a Virginia Halfpenny with a good provenance (Boyd-Ford) and included the auction tag from the Ford auction. It was in an SEGS slab so I didn't buy it. Maybe I should have. Will PCGS cross coins in SEGS slabs?
7. There were still a lot of details coins and damaged coins and still very few CAC stickers or coins in CAC grading service holders.
8. I bought an 1915-S St. Gaudens $20 in PCGS MS 64 with a CAC Green sticker. I don't have a picture of it yet.
9. I also bought this 1811 50C Large 8 Capped Bust Half Dollar in PCGS AU58 (no CAC). I plan to send it to CAC.

UpGrayedd

Thanks for the report. A few questions, where was the show, was it well attended, how were prices, and did it look like people were buying?

johnny9434

detail/damaged coins, i wonder what brought this. hope this dont become a trend

MFeld

@johnny9434 said:
detail/damaged coins, i wonder what brought this. hope this dont become a trend

What “brought this” is nothing new. There have been very large quantities of such coins on the market for a long time. And the same goes for coins that aren’t in holders.

pruebas

All the “good” coins & CAC coins are going to auction and thence to collections. Dealers can’t make any money on them.

MidLifeCrisis

@MFeld said:

@johnny9434 said:
detail/damaged coins, i wonder what brought this. hope this dont become a trend

What “brought this” is nothing new. There have been very large quantities of such coins on the market for a long time. And the same goes for coins that aren’t in holders.

I believe this is true. However, when I used to go to shows regularly, including really big shows in Baltimore, 2006-2010 time frame, I don't remember seeing nearly as many.

BStrauss3

You are a dealer.

You have a lot of stock, some amount of travel to the show, only limited display space at the show.

What do you bring? The stock most likely in your experience to sell.

You might bring some really nice details coins if you can price 'em cheap and tell a story. The dreck you just wholesale to somebody who cracks them out and sells them raw.

MidLifeCrisis

Update in first post.

lilolme

Nice 1811 (it is a O-104, only two O # with the large 8). A type set like that one will have a good look.

winesteven

At larger shows many dealers (but not a majority) stock a lot of CAC stickered and CACG holdered coins.

Steve

BLUEJAYWAY

In honor of Ricko: How was bullion (silver)?

MidLifeCrisis

@BLUEJAYWAY said:
In honor of Ricko: How was bullion (silver)?

I don't know, other than there seemed to be a lot available.

MidLifeCrisis

Another observation: I saw several young numismatists at the show and several dealers interacting with them. It was nice to see.

MidLifeCrisis

@UpGrayedd said:
Thanks for the report. A few questions, where was the show, was it well attended, how were prices, and did it look like people were buying?

The show was near Nashville, Tennessee.

I did not see a lot of people there either day. However, that may have just been timing. I was there late afternoon the first day, only to find out that the show was closing one hour earlier than advertised. So many dealers were packing up or already gone. The second day (Saturday), I went in early afternoon. There were more people then but still some of the dealers were packing up or had already left.

Those that were there seemed to be actively engaging the dealers and looking to buy.

Prices were all over the place. I saw some damaged / details graded coins being offered at much higher prices than I would expect. However, a lot of the coins that I took a serious look at were reasonably priced.

Dealers I talked with told me they were having a good show. One dealer said "Friday was great! Today is OK."

DisneyFan

@MidLifeCrisis said:

6. The same dealer had a Virginia Halfpenny with a good provenance (Boyd-Ford) and included the auction tag from the Ford auction. It was in an SEGS slab so I didn't buy it. Maybe I should have. Will PCGS cross coins in SEGS slabs?

Upon special request, CACG will accept as a raw coin, a submission of a coin in a Third party grading service holder. Ask for their authorization form.

oldabeintx

@DisneyFan said:
Upon special request, CACG will accept as a raw coin, a submission of a coin in a Third party grading service holder. Ask for their authorization form.

Do you know if CACG will leave a coin in its holder in these instances if it doesn’t meet the requested minimum grade, or do they crack out such coins? I’ve got some old ANACS coins that I might submit if they will leave them in the holder, failing the minimum.

Pnies20

@MidLifeCrisis said:

@UpGrayedd said:
Thanks for the report. A few questions, where was the show, was it well attended, how were prices, and did it look like people were buying?

The show was near Nashville, Tennessee.

I did not see a lot of people there either day. However, that may have just been timing. I was there late afternoon the first day, only to find out that the show was closing one hour earlier than advertised. So many dealers were packing up or already gone. The second day (Saturday), I went in early afternoon. There were more people then but still some of the dealers were packing up or had already left.

Those that were there seemed to be actively engaging the dealers and looking to buy.

Prices were all over the place. I saw some damaged / details graded coins being offered at much higher prices than I would expect. However, a lot of the coins that I took a serious look at were reasonably priced.

Dealers I talked with told me they were having a good show. One dealer said "Friday was great! Today is OK."

I was there! It’s always enjoyable. I was able to find a few coins and visit with a few folks I know.

Pnies20

@UpGrayedd said:
Thanks for the report. A few questions, where was the show, was it well attended, how were prices, and did it look like people were buying?

I will say as someone that goes every year, this is the most attendance I’ve seen and lots of buying. As mentioned, It is a lot of lower end stuff but there are some great coins and some solid dealers there. Larry Briggs, Butternut among a few others. George Coker of Kentucky Coin cabinet always has great stuff.

I have always had very good luck with finding raw coins there to submit.

1northcoin

@oldabeintx said:

@DisneyFan said:
Upon special request, CACG will accept as a raw coin, a submission of a coin in a Third party grading service holder. Ask for their authorization form.

Do you know if CACG will leave a coin in its holder in these instances if it doesn’t meet the requested minimum grade, or do they crack out such coins? I’ve got some old ANACS coins that I might submit if they will leave them in the holder, failing the minimum.

Same question I had. Thanks for asking.

TennesseeDave

That 1811 half is beautiful and looks CAC worthy to my eyes, Good Luck and Thanks for the report.

Smudge

Thanks for your report.

DisneyFan

@1northcoin said:

@oldabeintx said:

@DisneyFan said:
Upon special request, CACG will accept as a raw coin, a submission of a coin in a Third party grading service holder. Ask for their authorization form.

Do you know if CACG will leave a coin in its holder in these instances if it doesn’t meet the requested minimum grade, or do they crack out such coins? I’ve got some old ANACS coins that I might submit if they will leave them in the holder, failing the minimum.

Same question I had. Thanks for asking.

CAC only accepts NGC or PCGS graded coins.
CACG Crossover is only for any coin that is currently in a PCGS or NGC holder.

Coinscratch

@BStrauss3 said:
You are a dealer.

You have a lot of stock, some amount of travel to the show, only limited display space at the show.

What do you bring? The stock most likely in your experience to sell.

You might bring some really nice details coins if you can price 'em cheap and tell a story. The dreck you just wholesale to somebody who cracks them out and sells them raw.

I get most of all that makes good sense but why is dreck cracked and sold raw? Is this meant to entice a higher price from what-ifs by other collectors?

DisneyFan

@MidLifeCrisis said:

6. The same dealer had a Virginia Halfpenny with a good provenance (Boyd-Ford) and included the auction tag from the Ford auction. It was in an SEGS slab so I didn't buy it. Maybe I should have. Will PCGS cross coins in SEGS slabs?

Per CACG
"Currently, we do not grade colonials, pioneer gold, California gold, medals, tokens, world coins, Baseball Hall of fame coins, Apollo 11 anniversary coins, Basketball Hall of fame coins, or 5oz America the Beautiful bullion coins. It is our intention to grade these in the future, but currently we do not accept them."

UltraHighRelief

CACG is now grading Pioneer gold.

oldabeintx

@UltraHighRelief said:
CACG is now grading Pioneer gold.

Did I read only if the size is comparable to Federal coins?

BStrauss3

@Coinscratch said:
I get most of all that makes good sense but why is dreck cracked and sold raw? Is this meant to entice a higher price from what-ifs by other collectors?

in the hope that people won't see it as details, buy it as a "cheap" coin of the grade and then it's their problem.

Why do car dealers keep clean A/B used cars for a cleanout and quick resale and sell B/C & below to wholesalers to end up on the buy here / pay here lots?

Maywood

@MidLifeCrisis said: It was in an SEGS slab so I didn't buy it. Maybe I should have. Will PCGS cross coins in SEGS slabs?

Maybe not, I'm not aware if PCGS has yet to acquire the technology needed to open a SEGS holder!!

GaCoinGuy

@MidLifeCrisis said:

6. The same dealer had a Virginia Halfpenny with a good provenance (Boyd-Ford) and included the auction tag from the Ford auction. It was in an SEGS slab so I didn't buy it. Maybe I should have. Will PCGS cross coins in SEGS slabs?

I have crossed a few SEGS to PCGS in the past. In my experience, SEGS was very hit or miss, so it truly depends on the coin. I think, out of 5 crosses, 2 stayed at the same grade, while the others went down a point.

YQQ

Why do car dealers keep clean A/B used cars for a cleanout and quick resale and sell B/C & below to wholesalers to end up on the buy here / pay here lots?

I get most of all that makes good sense but why is dreck cracked and sold raw? Is this meant to entice a higher price from what-ifs by other collectors?

in the hope that people won't see it as details, buy it as a "cheap" coin of the grade and then it's their problem.

Am not sure I understand your analogy with car dealers.
as for coins, buy the coin and NOT its covers or stickers. You pay for someone's opinion. It is YOUR enjoyment as you are a collector and NOT a dealer!
Buy the best YOU can afford!!!!!
It might be "dreck" for others, BUT for YOU it is a coin YOU wanted and could afford. And you finally found one!!!!
Please do not let "deep" pockets influence your buying decision.

Slade01

@DisneyFan said:

@MidLifeCrisis said:

6. The same dealer had a Virginia Halfpenny with a good provenance (Boyd-Ford) and included the auction tag from the Ford auction. It was in an SEGS slab so I didn't buy it. Maybe I should have. Will PCGS cross coins in SEGS slabs?

Upon special request, CACG will accept as a raw coin, a submission of a coin in a Third party grading service holder. Ask for their authorization form.

PCGS does that too as a courtesy, a while back I sent in a $20 St.G MS66 in an old Q. David Bowers Hallmark slab and they broke it out for me and coincidentally it did grade MS66. I just sent them an email first so as not to surprise them.

GaCoinGuy

@Coinscratch said:

I get most of all that makes good sense but why is dreck cracked and sold raw? Is this meant to entice a higher price from what-ifs by other collectors?

Not all collectors have pockets deep enough to shell out 4 or more digits to purchase coins. Does this mean they should not collect for enjoyment? Me personally, I collect for the history of the coins, not for investment. My wife and I support our own household and her grandmother on our teacher salaries, so my budget is often very limited. I focus on my 7070 and for some of the older series (Bust and Seated), I have sometimes purchased a details coin to fill the spot; it really just depends on what caused the details grade. Others for the set include some coins handed down by, now deceased, relatives. To me, they are not "dreck", they are a reminder of a loved relative.

I know, and accept, that my collection will never, in all likelihood, be worth huge money, but I enjoy the history of them; I have other investment options in place for my family.

The_Dinosaur_Man

@GaCoinGuy I agree with your sentiment. For me this is a hobby first. I honestly have way more fun selling to other collectors than buying collections or selling bullion.