Finally a known counterfeit buffalo nickel winds up in a major grading service's holder on ebay
BUFFNIXX
Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭✭✭
Here is the auction number of the coin in question, now in a slab, it is number
Just copy and paste this number into the ebay search line and search on this number and you will be taken right to the auction.
This is usually referred to as the "decapitated bison variety",
comments?
Does anyone think this one is real?
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
1
Comments
Sorry thing your headline is misleading and without seeing the coin in hand how do we really know?
if you're sure, link it and copy the photos in
@CaptHenway
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204783651576?itmmeta=01HXJKAGRHBRTH5ZQ9WF9NG86K&hash=item2fae0e8af8:g:wV4AAOSw0hZmPQL9&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAAwHyRD7tXnRKte/ZjCyxmsV/iLnvQg1/Owg9Fbx8lCXN8xQVz439MjluHnGIsBMydkyrtSp7FrlP29WFR69fovAdwzcgoAEozysc8NAtT4pS6OiwBX/KqiccQ+2ERbDwsHgaOs4T4zxd87IvzaTR2y/PWucststkkI69AMY5+c+YmYVBtjq6WYMc6Ccab1Y84Hu/KaiPMnTdoiL4Fhr71G6bIE4r7jdqw00XQm7q/WoCtEy8XeMvGghZYJwSGIPZhQA==|tkp:Bk9SR6iMqtPsYw
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
If the slab is real, ANACS DID. I should think that they spent a lot of time authrenticating a coin that looks as bad as this one. You are the Buff expert and you say it is a known counterfeit so why ask what the rest of us think. Perhaps ANACS has authenticated some of these before. They are the oldest TPGS.
I have never seen this one in my life.
And I may have made a mistake here. It has been called a counterfiet over the years and maybe it is OK and especially since ANACS has authenticated it. I have the greatest respect for anacs too. So I was wrong here. My appologies.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
@burfle23 Maybe we can get Mr. Young to render an opinion.
Philippians 4:4-7
He should have been around there somewhere.................
Pete
When I call a coin counterfeit I explain why; curious from the OP's description and post what makes him certain this is bad?
Coin cert looks up correctly on ANACs" website sight, so slab looks OK.
That being said, coin is a known counterfeit...
Looks like it was purchased; stay tuned...
Interesting. Any idea when these were produced and if their intent was to be passed in circulation?
I've seen at least a couple of the very similar 1936's. The first was heavily circulated and belonged to a friend who considered it a rare 3 or 3.5 leg variety, IIRC. I told him I thought it was fake, and proved it to him when I found a mint state one not much later. But given that one was heavily circulated, I'm sure they were made back in in the day, to be passed in circulation.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Maybe you could email a copy of that page and the ANACS cert # so they can tune up their authentication on known counterfeit Buffalos of that era, or at least consider delisting that one.
Perhaps PCGS bought it for use in promotional material.
I sent info to ANACS...
Thank you for the info. I checked Winston Zack's Bad Metal book on counterfeits and the 1935 variety seen here is identified as a transfer die composed of German silver. He also mentions how prolific counterfeiting buffalo nickels was at the time. One counterfeiting outfit apparently struck 5,000,000 pieces with varying dates during just 18 months before being caught.
Winston's image per his permission:
finding contemporary counterfeits. very interesting
Ooof...
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
Most intriguing. 5 mil is a lot of buffs. Appreciate the info.
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Considering how few I’ve seen over the years, it’s hard to believe many of those 5 million coins made it into circulation.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Totally agree. Henning counterfeit nickels are fairly common. Any idea how many of those were made?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I don't think Henning came anywhere near those numbers. I would strongly recommend picking up Zack's books. They have a lot of great information on counterfeits and reference newspaper articles of the time.
I believe that Henning's output was in the hundreds of thousands.
The reason the 1944 Henning is "common" is because it is immediately identifiable by the missing mintmark. The other Henning dates are scarce only because they are harder to identify.
A good counterfeit goes undetected. In the case of counterfeit Buffalo nickels, I wonder how many circulated to the point where they became dateless culls. Many of us have probably seen them and not even realized it.
I greatly doubt anyone at ANACS was fooled by this. I have never seen one and it looks
like an obvious fake. I can look it up in office Friday. J.P.Martin
Let us know what you find; I believe they authenticated it as the label indicates.
Maybe they meant "authenticated" counterfeit?
What is the recourse if any for whoever owns the coin. No mention on ANACS website as to claims on authenticity and if they do pay out ,how would they determine the value being a unique item.
The auction no longer shows up on EBAY search so wonder if it sold or not?
Any update Mr. Martin?
The ebay link no longer shows the listing, so it appears ebay may have canceled the sale and nuked the listing.
What is the TM-BNC-35-3R in reference to?
TM is Thurman/Margolis, BNC stands for buffalo nickel CUD, the 35-3R is the date (1935) and the file number and R for reverse die. That is the cross-reference numbering system.
Coin was sold.
It's hard to tell from the poor pics shown in this thread but the coin in question looks like it could be a genuine coin struck from very heavily abraded late stage dies that should have been retired long before this coin was struck. It's not unlike the 1937-D 3-legged buffalo nickel with the moth-eaten rear leg and missing front leg. ANACS is very good at detecting counterfeit coins and since they examined this coin in-hand, I'll defer to their opinion.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I wonder if ANACS did a metallurgical test. If it has a significant presence of zinc, that would all but exclude it from being a genuine mint product regardless of it's other features.
Wow, regardless of the research? Not trying to derail this important post, but I have several other researched counterfeits in theirs as well as others slabs as genuine.
I'm guessing he didn't read the other posts and is unaware of the research.
The new owner will...
I wonder if ANACS bought it to take it off the market.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
missed saving higher res photos.
i noticed the date was a tad off. the tops of the 1 and 9 don't align
wouldn't the obverse die qualify as a definite 2 feather? if so, wouldn't we have a recognized 2 feathers that year?
i noticed the top of the bridge of the nose to be gone, but that is on one photo of a 2F. what wasn't was the area under th nose gone.
where is most of the neck?
my first impression without knowing any of this was the obverse was unusually ground down. for the few i've seen, i just haven't seen that before
all of this i was going to let go because a few said it was ok, but that's what first bothered me about the coin.
i was also looking at liberty and thinking it was in to high relief for the amount polish, but am now discarding that as even the other 2 feathers still have a good bit of relief there
did anyone try to authenticate the obverse?
No; although I would guess they would like to get it back. I can state it is off the market...
MINTAGE: 58,264,000
high enough say 50,000 highly abraded nickels could escape notice?
Yeah it was sold but the link should show it as a completed listing. The listing appears to have been poofed.
Please share additional pictures when you receive the coin.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Anything @KOYNGUY ? Was hoping to wrap this up with your update...
no this coin actually did sell.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Maybe Koinguy did not go to the office yet.
I forgot to check and am now on vacation, Sorry
Well, I guess we will have to wait...
Posters in the know are being cryptic. eBay indicates it was “removed for policy violation”. Maybe the sale was done outside of eBay with a buyer that was aware of its questionable authenticity and this thread.