Memory Lane stolen cards... $2MM worth.
craig44
Posts: 11,345 ✭✭✭✭✭
I am surprised no one here has mentioned this fiasco. ML announced recently that 50 cards from their last auction that ended a few weeks ago were stolen. $2 Million dollars worth!!! to make it even crazier, they weren't stolen from ML's headquarters. The cards were shipped across country for showcase at a big card show. ML shipped them to the hotel the rep was to be staying at. 3 DAYS before the rep arrived. And it was a Best Western!!!!!
who in their right minds would entrust a small $2MM package for 3 days to a Best Western?!?!?!?!? talk about crazy.
then ML let the auction run as normal, even though 50 of the top cards were stolen and not in their possession.
I don't think anyone knows how it will all shake out. ML has assured all consigners they will get their $. We shall see.
from my perspective, ML was not a very good steward of other peoples high-value possessions.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Comments
That’s news to me. Thx 4 sharing!
It would be interesting to know the list of cards stolen…I’m sure the cards will be cracked out . Otherwise…the cards can be tracked thru serial numbers.
Handle with a brinks truck. When I had a 1986 Michael Jordan #57 bumped from a PSA-9 to a PSA-10…PSA would have had it delivered to my my home via a brinks truck. Instead…I consigned the card immediately to Memory Lane which is down the highway from PSA in LA.
Best Western Plus. It has a business center so it seems legit. Ha.
I understand that ML contacted affected consigners and informed them about the cards being missing, and that the cards were insured, the auction would continue, and the hammer price would be the insurance claim amount if the cards were not found.
Auction houses need to handle as if a highly valuable piece of art, not that it’s just a baseball card.
I've always appreciated Memory Lane with every interaction but this just screams small time operation.
So, they'll be refunding millions AND paying millions out to the owners. I hope their insurance is up to date.
Perhaps they need to spend less time telephone interviewing new perspective bidders and look at themselves.
Auctioning the items days after they had reported stolen is tantamount to fraud. IMHO if they then accepted payments it also qualifies as Wire Fraud and the Feds should go after them.
If I was one of the purchasers, and Memory Lane had accepted my payments, I would have contacted the FTC and FBI
Memory Lanes actions or rather inaction after reporting the items as stolen is despicible!
there is a lot of debate going on across the street about that insurance claim. of course, it is all speculation without seeing the policy, but the cards were not in ML's possession, they were not lost in transit. they were entrusted to a Best Western. Plus. it is not know if they revealed the value of the package to the BW management. I would think that had they disclosed the value, BW would have in no way taken on that type of liability.
there are multiple different safe options. It was either laziness on ML's part or miserlyness. or both.
why in the world didn't the ML rep just put them in his carry on luggage and bring it with him on the plane?
so stupid.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I couldn't agree more. it was a "phantom" auction for sure. They were very poor stewards of other peoples stuff.
I would have GREAT reservations consigning with them in the future. If that is how they handle the very BEST items they bring in on consignment, how are they treating the more average pieces?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The Wire Fraud statute makes it ilegal for anyone to use, or cause the
use of "wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce" for the purposes of executing a scheme to defraud or to obtain money by false or fraudulent pretenses. It is punishable by up to
20 years in prison
Acocording to members of my firms house council, who sit next to me, a legit case exists. Devil is in the details of course...
For real. These companies just keep doing weird things to undermine their credibility and reputations. I understand a company playing on the edge to get an advantage, but this is just carelessness verging on fraud. If your company's business model survives only with absolute trust then you have to protect that at all costs (all costs).
So the sellers will get the full value of their consignment and I would imagine ML will get their fees from the insurance claim as well. The person really screwed over is the winning bidder. They may have had to jump through hoops to move money around to cover the purchase (we don't know). Plus, they could have gone after other investment items if they knew the item they were bidding on didn't exist. Really shady.
Buyers might have to wait years to get money back that never should have been collected in first place.
I do hope the buyers have contacted the FBI. The Memory Lane folks need to be charged with Wire Fraud!
Memory Lanes actions were Vile, Despicable, and in all likelyhood a Federal Crime!
Not sure what kind of dealer policy ML has but I know with a collector policy, you are covered only up to 60K for theft or loss off site and not on the policy premises.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I have to believe that winners were never invoiced but it is still very shady business practice.
More about this story...
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/2-million-in-baseball-cards-believed-stolen-from-ohio-hotel/
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
ML not pulling stolen items from the auction would constitute FRAUD, correct? ML trying to determine the market value of a stolen item then submitting an insurance claim based on said hammer price is insurance fraud, hello Feds! Shut down ML...please.
What I do not quite understand is why Memory Lane would ship 2 million dollars worth of cards to some hotel so that they can be displayed at a card show. These cards were not even available for sale at the card show but were simply used to promote Memory Lane.
I have seen the practice of displaying upcoming/ongoing auction items at sports card shows. I just would not feel comfortable in allowing someone other than brinks truck personnel handing such valuable collectibles. Sportscards are no longer essential bicycle spoke accessories...
I agree that it's problematic. I'm not sure on the fraud aspect, but if the consignors knew, theoretically they could just bid their item to the moon.
Actually, keeping the listings up (although I think it's wrong) may have been to everyone's advantage. The strike price for each of those would probably determine FMV for the purpose of an insurance claim. Otherwise, if some of these items are rare enough to where there are no comps, this helps.
But...no longer having an item and still keeping it up for bidding is morally wrong, and probably legally wrong.
This quote at the end of the SCD story seems to be the easiest lead to track down..
We’re told another auction company which had a booth at the show shipped catalogs to the same hotel. When the company picked them up, two of multiple boxes had been opened.
Not to mention the fact that any item that was confirmed stolen in this auction will see a substantial drop in interest guaranteeing that it never meets its true value.
You'd like to think something like this would be the end of a business like Memory Lane but in the sports card industry this sort of thing gets forgotten rather quickly much like PWCC.
I have less of an issue with keeping the listings up because who was to say they would not subsequenlty track down the shipment and all is good (unless they already knew it was more likley than not that they weren't going to recover those items)? At the end of the day, if you won an item and then they told you, "sorry, there was a theft and this item is no longer available," as a buyer, I would be angry/disappointed, but it is what it is.
What I have more of an issue with is collecting payment for the items, if they already determined it was more likely than not that they would be able to recover those items. If I was a buyer and remitted funds, I would no longer be angry/disappointed, I would be irate. At that point, you have damages for the opportunity cost of still having those funds available.
With that amount the briefcase would of never left my hand.
Terribly negligent. These types of heists have been happening for decades.
Enjoy the go.
Proud of this board for not taking. Cheap shots at Best Western. They have improved over the past decade.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
I have no reason to doubt ML has insurance for theft. I do wonder what policy covers $2M worth of cards stored in a unlocked BW+ manager's office. It must be a very expensive policy.
You guys would be surprised how many valuable items are shipped by regular FedEx. For some unique items, you can't buy usable insurance - FedEx may charge you for the insurance but try to collect and see what happens. FedEx lost a six figure component we needed for a project and they didn't pay out on the claim because it was a one-off item
You could ship with UPS’s parcel pro. Then to the Best Western Vault.
Their Insurance Company's legal team is going to be all over this, no way Memory Lane's potentially fraudulent actions after the theft are legit or according to their contact., I'd not be surprised if after an expensive (to ML) protracted legal battle Memory Lane gets nothing.
Plausible Memory Lane will be nothing more than a memory over this....
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Remind me not to consign anything with memory lane ever.
That is the bottom line. The insurance line seems fishy, I think they were hoping and praying the cards turned up.
A hotel lobby typically has 24 hour security cameras. They know everyone that walked in and out of that office. This shouldn’t be hard to track down…..unless it was an inside job.
If the Hope Diamond can be delivered through USPS, FedEx doesn't seem like such a reckless choice.
Best Western's legal liability appears to be limited to $10USD (yes ten US Dollars)
_2011 Ohio Revised Code
Title [47] XLVII OCCUPATIONS - PROFESSIONS
Chapter 4721: INNKEEPERS
4721.03 Limit of liability as to certain property.
Universal Citation: OH Rev Code § 4721.03
The liability of an innkeeper whether person, partnership, or corporation, for loss of or injury to personal property placed in his care by his guests other than that described in sections 4721.01 and 4721.02 of the Revised Code, shall be that of a depositary for hire. Liability shall not exceed one hundred fifty dollars for each trunk and its contents, fifty dollars for each valise and its contents, and ten dollars for each box, bundle, or package, and contents, so placed in his care, unless he has consented in writing with such guest to assume a greater liability._
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
One thing's for sure, the amount of time that some grown men have wasted gossiping and opining on this situation on the internet is simply cringeworthy.
I dunno, losing $2M of other peoples cards is sorta a big story in the hobby. And the shady ML response doesn’t make it any better.
I can’t think of a similar situation that has occurred in the hobby. I don’t think any of the comments here have been reckless considering the lack of transparency from ML.
Men of Leisure should frighten you.
Not much to gossip about IMO. This story is all about flippant care of rare consigned cards.
How many of us would trust our collection to sit at a BW for a few days? It’s so ridiculous on its face. In this case the devil isn’t even in the details.
And I’d love to see the insurance policy that covers 2mm in cards stored at a hotel lobby office, that is made whole by running an auction for the stolen cards. Ya, ok.
Sounds like an inside job to me. No one at BW would even know what was in the sealed shipment. There is no motive to steal it. The person who stole it knew exactly what was in there, This is an ML associate who told a friend to take it and is trying to get ML whole through insurance fraud. No way this claim gets paid out.
Insurance Company's absolutely loath paying claims and this claim at absolute best is totally swiss-cheesed. I do agree that no way they payout. If they did I'd love to use them for my stuff
I'm sad for the consignees as in virtually every scenario that could play out they are royally you know what. The exception being is if the cards are recovered.
BTW over at net54 the conversation seem to be way skewed on the side of those who still would not hesitate to consign with ML going forward??? Seem like some serious Kool-Aid drinking going on there...
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
It's likely that there are significant details about what happened that are not known.
One speculation I would make is that it is highly likely that the decision to keep the items in the auction was made in coordination with the insurance company with input from attorneys. Additionally, I would find it highly unlikely that any of the "winners" of these items transferred money to ML.
this is a sports card message board, correct? should we not discuss issues in the sports card hobby on said sports card message board? perhaps I am confused?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Confounded over how none of you have yet accused Shohei's former interpreter of being deeply involved in this mess.
Enjoy the go.
Netflix documentary comes out in July.
I agree with all of this. There should only be a few people that had access to the manager's office so the list of suspects should be pretty short. Plus, all hotels I've been in have security cameras. I'm sure all of the saved footage has been reviewed several times.
I'm sure ML consulted their attorneys before deciding how to handle the auction listings.
The winners of the auctions wouldn't know how much to pay until they were sent invoices. Invoices wouldn't be sent out until the next day at the earliest. Even if ML had their system set up to automatically send invoices, they would have taken steps to ensure that invoices weren't sent for the stolen items. So, the chances of payment being sent would be 0%. No wire fraud claims.
With 50 cards being worth $2m, I'm sure there are some unique ones in there that would be easily recognized even if they were removed from the slabs. That would make them nearly impossible to sell unless it was a private sale. Even then, the buyer wouldn't be able to show it to anyone or resell it later.
I wounder if the thief knew the value of what he was stealing. Did ML contact the hotel before they shipped the box to let them know it was coming? If they did, did they tell them the value? As georgebailey2 said, there are a lot of details that haven't been released to the public.
I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express but I do deal with many commercial lawyers. In situations where we made a costly mistake that affected customers, the advice was never "carry on like nothing happened". The first advice I always receive is to try to mitigate any further losses. I don't see how continuing the auctions for the stolen cards would mitigate any risk, it could actually add to ML's issues.
But you are correct, we don't know any more details. This week it will be a month since the theft and the cards haven't turned up yet. Since we are all playing the speculation game, here are my reckless points:
A BW hotel lobby is manned 24 hours per day and has security cameras - That means they would know when FedEx arrived, who signed for it, and where they put it. I assume they have a secure location for guest packages, be it an office or cage. This would imply that it should be relatively easy to find the box and culprit since there is a clear video record.
However, almost one month later and no further news. I think this means there must be a hole in the video or storage. Since the secure area is most likely in a work space, there maybe no security cameras inside the actual area, which would make it hard to know what actually happened to the box in the storage area. In addition, depending on what kind of camera system they have, there could be missing video due to a glitch or purposeful deletion.
Most big chain hotels have cameras all over the property. A 54 card package would be decent size, so if someone had it and they could see it clearly on video, this case would be over.
I can only conclude that there is no clear video showing the box being moved. So does this mean the cards were stolen out of the package? Even if someone on the staff took it, the list of suspects would be short. I think what most likely happened is that someone else showed up to pick up the box before the ML person showed up. That would point to an inside job.
Speculation over.
There are many products designed for determining location, characterizing activity, and identifying tamper for this very purpose. I am surprised something like that has not been used.
The legacy product is designed with a LTE Cat.M1 radio, a consumer-grade GNSS receiver along with 2.4GHz radio for WiFi + BLE and a few light sensors. These devices are inexpensive and easy to reuse requiring only a few battery presses.
New product designs now leverage protocols like Amazon Sidewalk and the Find My protocols supported by Apple and Google to piggy-back on dynamic network access.
A simple accelerometer which can detect motion and do some simple gesturing modeling allows for classification of movement, shaking, opening, dropping, etc.
It's somewhat amusing when there's a $30 solution to a $2MM problem. At least a solution to provide some of the insight which might be missing. So, I am going to assume, for now, that the lack of information coming out in the last week is because they have some idea what happened.
Maybe, but nowadays people just take what they can get. They may not even know what they have. All the shopping baskets at a DC CVS are gone because they were stolen. People feel entitled to take whatever is not theirs.
If they have no idea what happened wouldn't there also be same lack of info? BTW I'm asking , not stating