Are Classic Silver Commemoratives on the Rise?
mrcommem
Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭✭
I just notice a price increase on silver commemoratives on the PCGS price guide. Anyone notice the price increase in the real world?
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mrcommem
Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭✭
mrcommem
Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭✭
Comments
I have seen only weak prices for white or unremarkable coins, but pretty coins with desirable toning are a getting very strong bid on Great Collections and elsewhere.
Commems and Early Type
I've noticed gradual price increases.
It was like this several years ago as well.
That is what I noticed as well.
Another area of strength are older (scarcer) holders, even if the coins are unremarkable.
I can tell you that the 1939 Oregon set I tried to sell here sold to the first dealer I showed it to at Central States. He tried to negotiate I stood firm and got the same money. He was excited to buy it.
Wish I had my Isabella back, but then can replace at the same price I sold. Do not understand this market. If there are any experts on here, let us know.
I see this rise as well but wonder if this is an actual rise in demand or an adjustment for inflation.
They're fun to collect if you don't mind watching them slowly decline in value. Pan Pac rises seem to be more than just inflationary rises.
They have done well for me at shows. Idk if there slight demand pickup but some good sales lately. Civil War and Cali issues seem popular.
Always a favorite type have in inventory.
The action is in the MS66 group that went from $76,275 to $83,370. And it's the high value coins that made most of the move. Since commemoratives regularly appear at auction, the the range for each coin can be wide. CAC coins seem to get the best prices.
It seems to be that the grades are being pushed higher with regrades and recons. That has to be pushing some values also.
I've pushed some older 65-66s into 67 holders and some 67s into 68s. I don't play the crack out game, but I was trying to maximize before selling. I've historically sold some OGH and older holder coins as a "purist" only to see them on GC a month later at 1.5-2 grades higher so I wasn't going to make that mistake again.
I've seen the rise as well. 1 dealer told me there was a slight uptick in price, fwiw all
No toning can be OK too.
The difficult part about commemoratives is their PCGS populations continue to expand significantly.
For example, recently there were only 57+10 Missouri 2*4s in MS66, now there are 62+10 in "+.". There were 112+ 19 Monroes in MS 66. Now there are 127+25 in "+." There were 126+23 Alabamas in MS66 and now 150+27.
Based on the price I paid for this, I think I’m single-handedly raising the commem market:
Tim
Edited out inadvertent picture.
Fortunately or unfortunately, this might be a factor.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
The raw ones on ebay are getting bid up — for example. common date Texas Commems that look MS63/4 ish to me are fetching $175 - $200
So confess. Gold stickers usually require a "Hail Mary" bid. What did you pay?
By the way, that is a nice coin! A possible MS63/64?
With our recent inflation, one would hope classic commemoratives are on the rise. I just sold a Missouri 2x4 for the same price I purchased it for 16 years ago.
Classic Silver Commems have dropped steadily for a really long time, but seemed to bottom out about five years ago or so, and have been slowly but steadily rising since then! Comparing current prices to those of 16 years ago hides that important fact, but I understand your point.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Heck, back in 1993 I thought classic commems had surely bottomed out and would be a great investment!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Classic commem collectors get no respect, no respect at all. I mean, when I went to a coin show and asked where the classic commems were, the dealer pointed and said go through that door. So I did...it was to the parking lot! I tell ya, it's not easy being a classic commem collector.
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
I believe overall they are in a steady rise trajectory (PCGS Commem Index).
Pieces with nice eye appeal, lustrous / super luster selling strong, move quickly. Tarnished pieces have average eye appeal / demand but remain popular with the toner crowd but Slower movement.
I stay away from any darkly tarnished issues as they will only get worse. Many are simply technically graded lacking in appeal. Or the tarnish simply got worse over time for some coin graded decades ago. Be especially careful in buying big ticket toners. Frequently Encounter owners of these trying dump them. They know it’s game over on their tarnished stuff or simply in state of denial (huge investment loss). Too bad so sad for them.
On a more positive note bullish on the Cali (San Diego, Bay Ridge,etc), Texas, Oregon Trail, and Civil War Issues. Pilgrim another fav.
Even the Redbook described them as a good investment opportunity years ago.
I started actively collecting them 17 years ago because I liked many of their designs and low mintages and figured they couldn't drop much more in value. Some types have held steady and had started to rebound prior to covid-19 like the Pan Pac. Others fell another 20-30% (Bay Bridge, Alabama, Maine) and I suspect any recent price growth is mostly inflation.
Only short set Walkers have performed worse in my collection.
You did great! I just took a $950 loss on my MS64 bought in 2003 when I thought they had definitely bottomed out and would be a great investment!
The Pan-Pac half dollar seems to frequently have eye appeal issues. Sometimes the dark toning covers problems that can get by you if you are not careful. I once had an NGC graded MS-63 piece that was dark with reasonable sized gash on Ms. Liberty's arm. It sold any way with little trouble.
Part of the trouble is that the holders in which the Pan-Pac three piece set was sold in toned the half dollar to ugly shades. The other two coins were gold, so they didn't react to the chemicals in the holder. Heritage had a three piece years ago with a cleaned. details grade half dollar, badly hairlined, with the gold coins in nice condition.
I have owned this one for years. I bought it from JJ Teaparty when it was in Boston for a attractive price in a down market. It's graded MS-64. Still I probably won't make much on it today. The best thing it has going for it is that all of the other coins in my Pan-Pac set, except for the quarter eagle, grade MS-64. So it's sort of a matched set.
Increased 50 bucks since my purchase of this commem. a few months ago.
What I always found interesting were the inner circles near the rim.
From Commemorative Coins of the United States: A Complete Encyclopedia by Q. David Bowers: “On many pieces there is an inner ‘circle’ or ‘line’ near the rim of the obverse due to die characteristics.” (pg. 128)
What did Bowers mean by "die characteristics?"
Everything has to bottom temporarily at some point.
Longer term, I expect most or all of it to continue to lose value, measured in current purchasing power. In recent decades, it's my inference that this artificial series has been losing "share of wallet" to a wide variety of (world) NCLT.
... > @jfriedm56 said:
Sharp blast Lincoln! Nice! Lincolns are one of my favorite classic commemoratives.
I like Lincolns for their proclivity to develop nice toning.
Having collected this series for over forty years and enduring all of the predictions of a rapid rise in value I can say that the only reason to collect these is for the love of the series, nothing more.
Just my 2¢ (US)
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
I built the majority of my set between 1996 and 2001. They have come up about some> @Lazybones said:
I built my collection back in 1996 when I finally had enough money. I wanted a set of these since I was 10 years old when I saw them at the back of the Redbook. I can say I have lost about 25% of its value but I didn't assemble the collection to make money, although It would be nice. The set was pedigreed "The Overland Trail Collection" due to my locale in Overland, Missouri. It was one of the first sets admitted to the Registry at a lofty 2nd place but now resides in the middle thirties to upper twenties. When I sent the collection to PCGS in 1996 they would crossover or encapsule the set for free. All ten or so NGC coins crossed some of the PCGS coins upgraded. It was a good deal at the time.
Overland Trail Collection Showcase
Dahlonega Type Set-2008 PCGS Best Exhibited Set
Not my usual type of purchase but one of the rare times I bought the holder, not the coin. Price was good so I just made the impulse buy since it wouldn't break the bank.
Mark
I really like commems and started to put a set together buying from some of the best dealers in that area at the time - Pinnacle, Bill Shamhart, Feld, TomB ( who else would you buy a Connecticut from?).
But I eventually got discouraged by that market. A few collectors at the top willing to pay up for the very finest toned examples but the collector pool thinned out quickly just below the elites.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
.> @mrcommem said:
>
You have a nice set; I remember seeing it as I was putting together my set. Appreciated the stamp pictures shown in the set too
The last (key) year of multicoin sets in high grades seem to be strong. For example, last night at GC a white PCGS MS67 CAC 1939-D Oregon sold for $1,278 net. A similar coin sold almost three and a half years ago for $733.50 on 1/10/2021. Yet, a nice discount from the PCGS $1,350 and CAC $1,500 values.
I really like Classic Commems and buy them now and then.
I would want to view any commem in person, or at least a good photo. While coins such as the Oregons generaly come fairly nice-some are outstanding-there are a lot of mutts out there even for technically correct grades.
That's where I wonder if a CAC AND a CMQ would eliminate the "mutts." By the way, the two Oregons I mentioned that were pictured at GC looked pretty good to me.
I sold almost all of my collection within the past 6 months. I had these classic commems, mostly CAC and mostly nice toners. My average hold time was around 5 years.
I’m out of town for a couple weeks but when I get back I’ll poke through my records and share my results. Many sold off of CROs site and some in Heritage auctions.
IIRC, as a group, I maybe made a little on the commems, but nothing huge - certainly not enough to overcome inflation during that same period. Possibly I even sold for a slight loss, with commission & such. I’ll look it up.
So, in reality, I was able to recoup most of the actual value, but did not make as much as almost any other investment class. Most of these were in the $1k to $5k range.
Last night at Great Collections a soapbar NGC MS65 CAC (green) Hawaiian, the key to the set, sold for $10,775.25. PCGS pice guide is $5,000. Go figure!
A circulated set from the other side of the tracks.
Wow!!! I bet those were not easy to find! But, you cheated on the Hawaiian. : )
The Connecticut appears to have meandered a bit, as well.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
This set has been a heck of a lot of fun putting together, particularly when I find coins where the circulated toning enhances the design. I show my Long Island and Texas often to illustrate this enhancement,
All can be found with steady searching. I should have had them all by now but I've missed some auction closings. They haunt me, too, like a big fish that got away.
No, I'm happy to say I "crushed" the Hawaiian! My Hawaiian is a colorful ICG AU55 that needs to be crossed and Trueviewed when TV gets their act together again.
I didn't care much for Hawaiian commems, mainly because they were expensive, and I didn't relish having to purchase one for my set. Then one caught my eye sitting alone in a dealer's case as he was packing for the evening and it stopped me as I was leaving Summer FUN with a fat wallet. Two minutes later, wallet lightened, that Hawaiian became one of my favorite commems.
Several coins have been graded, a few others were purchased graded, so the album is now being used as storage. I'm glad it gave some of us coin nerds some quality time looking for out of place coins. Nobody noted Abraham Roanoke though, one of the unsung heroes of American history
Tough question to answer. This one sold for $141 in $.99 eBay auction.
edit to update price
HE>I
As a boy I always dreamed of owning a Hawaiian. My true love was stamps and commemorative stamps at that. So naturally commemorative coins were much more interesting to me than collecting by the date and mintmark. When I resumed collecting coins late in life, my first PCGS purchase was a Hawaiian. And my first CACG purchase was a Hawaiian.
That's quite a meander in many ways.
Incredible how many commems were minted in 1936. I guess it kept the mint busy during the depression.