think the design change has anything to do with it?
the previous design has a cut-off and people can make a complete set minus a 1,945 issue. and i wonder if the 1,945 burn also impacted current sales. collectors are looking at a new series of unknown length and why bother after getting burned without a complete set from last series?
@MsMorrisine said:
think the design change has anything to do with it?
the previous design has a cut-off and people can make a complete set minus a 1,945 issue. and i wonder if the 1,945 burn also impacted current sales. collectors are looking at a new series of unknown length and why bother after getting burned without a complete set from last series?
Nope. It's all about the 20%+ increase in the price of the metal, and the Mint refusing to make any adjustment to the premium. The design is lovely, but not lovely enough to justify $5980 for a 4-coin set with $4265 worth of gold in it. Not with a 10K product limit, with individual coin mintages ranging from 15K to 28K.
It's not about the design. If they sold 5K sets, with mintages half of what they are, they'd sell out. Alternatively, if they reduced prices to be in line with the mintages, they'd also sell out.
Keys keep things interesting, and represent a windfall for those lucky enough to score one. If we all boycotted every series with a key we couldn't get, most of us wouldn't bother collecting at all.
Maybe there will be a low mintage due to low interest because of the price. Double edged sword. Might pay off or might not. Price is to high for me to take that kind of risk.
I would love to get a set a new AGE coins with the new reverse, but the price of gold bullion scares me. I figured out that the AGE Proof set is priced out over $3,200 per ounce of gold gold. OUCH!
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@bestday said:
And, I think - are they referring to the same “geniuses” that can’t figure out why they have destroyed nearly every Mint program that ever existed with their utterly ridiculous pricing grids?
Wondercoin.
The pricey Mint products came about after Mint products released Doubled Tripled in price.. sometimes the same day of release .. Then A new mint director came in, raised prices to have the Mint keep some of market price premiums of their products ..
Very true, but that's not this. No gold coins with mintages anywhere near these ever doubled or tripled upon release.
Yes, a new Mint director came, and raised pricing in line with what other world mints charge for numismatic products, even though the US Mint does much higher volumes. It is what it is, and it's fine if the market will absorb it.
The market will not, however, absorb 19,000 one ounce gold coins at a $900 premium to a $2300 intrinsic value, so many of the coins will either sit in their warehouse, or never be made in the first place.
This does a disservice to everyone since, if the coins were priced more intelligently, in line with the actual market, they would sell more, actually fulfilling their mandate, while also generating more profit for the US Treasury. But again, it is what it is, and it's fine, since proof AGEs are not a necessity so we will just have to do without.
That new Mint Director was extremely anti-collector. For the silver Proof set, he kept the price at the same level it had been the previous year with three fewer silver quarters in it. He also cut the quality of the packaging back to where the U.S. now looks like it's a third world country.
Needless to say, I am not among his fans.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
That new Mint Director was extremely anti-collector. For the silver Proof set, he kept the price at the same level it had been the previous year with three fewer silver quarters in it. He also cut the quality of the packaging back to where the U.S. now looks like it's a third world country.
Needless to say, I am not among his fans.
That he is a she. ☺️
edited to add: Unless you are speaking of before June 2022.
That new Mint Director was extremely anti-collector. For the silver Proof set, he kept the price at the same level it had been the previous year with three fewer silver quarters in it. He also cut the quality of the packaging back to where the U.S. now looks like it's a third world country.
Needless to say, I am not among his fans.
That he is a she. ☺️
edited to add: Unless you are speaking of before June 2022.
I am pretty sure @BillJones is talking about Ryder. It was Ryder who did things that were very pro-collector, like introduce the W-Mint quarters, the 75th anniversary privy marks, the Morgan and Peace Dollars, etc.
But he also rejiggered the numismatic program to run more like a real business, which included raising prices to meet the market, rather than allowing us to collect excess profits through easy flips, cutting costs, etc.
Keys keep things interesting, and represent a windfall for those lucky enough to score one. If we all boycotted every series with a key we couldn't get, most of us wouldn't bother collecting at all.
Which proof AGE do you see as key(s)?
I just looked at the mintages (again) and I don't consider any to meet the definition. There is a noticeable drop off starting in 2013 (mostly), but too many lower mintage dates negate any as "key" in my view. I don't see the mintage difference as large enough to be meaningful between the lower mintage dates.
I also have a different perspective of "key" coin from US collecting, though that may not be relevant.
Keys keep things interesting, and represent a windfall for those lucky enough to score one. If we all boycotted every series with a key we couldn't get, most of us wouldn't bother collecting at all.
Which proof AGE do you see as key(s)?
I just looked at the mintages (again) and I don't consider any to meet the definition. There is a noticeable drop off starting in 2013 (mostly), but too many lower mintage dates negate any as "key" in my view. I don't see the mintage difference as large enough to be meaningful between the lower mintage dates.
I also have a different perspective of "key" coin from US collecting, though that may not be relevant.
I was responding to the comment about the 75th anniversary privy mark. That would be the key, and the inability to obtain one is not why people have no interest in buying one of 19,500 coins at a $900 premium to $2300 spot gold.
That new Mint Director was extremely anti-collector. For the silver Proof set, he kept the price at the same level it had been the previous year with three fewer silver quarters in it. He also cut the quality of the packaging back to where the U.S. now looks like it's a third world country.
Needless to say, I am not among his fans.
That he is a she. ☺️
edited to add: Unless you are speaking of before June 2022.
I am pretty sure @BillJones is talking about Ryder. It was Ryder who did things that were very pro-collector, like introduce the W-Mint quarters, the 75th anniversary privy marks, the Morgan and Peace Dollars, etc.
But he also rejiggered the numismatic program to run more like a real business, which included raising prices to meet the market, rather than allowing us to collect excess profits through easy flips, cutting costs, etc.
As a collector who never made a dime from “easy flips” I was not a fan. He raised the price of the coins that I care about. I could care less about searching rolls for W quarters. They are the new form of easy flips. I have no W quarters nor do I have any interest in them.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
That new Mint Director was extremely anti-collector. For the silver Proof set, he kept the price at the same level it had been the previous year with three fewer silver quarters in it. He also cut the quality of the packaging back to where the U.S. now looks like it's a third world country.
Needless to say, I am not among his fans.
That he is a she. ☺️
edited to add: Unless you are speaking of before June 2022.
I am pretty sure @BillJones is talking about Ryder. It was Ryder who did things that were very pro-collector, like introduce the W-Mint quarters, the 75th anniversary privy marks, the Morgan and Peace Dollars, etc.
But he also rejiggered the numismatic program to run more like a real business, which included raising prices to meet the market, rather than allowing us to collect excess profits through easy flips, cutting costs, etc.
As a collector who never made a dime from “easy flips” I was not a fan. He raised the price of the coins that I care about. I could care less about searching rolls for W quarters. They are the new form of easy flips. I have no W quarters nor do I have any interest in them.
I understand. But what he did isn't terrible. He captured profits for the US Treasury that would otherwise go to flippers, which is really part of his job.
In addition, he made it possible for real collectors who would otherwise be crowded out by flippers to obtain their coins directly from the US Mint. Likely at lower prices than would be available on the flipping market, although higher than the give away prices of the past.
It's probably worth keeping in mind that it's the market that ultimately determines value. Not any of us on the forum, and not the US Mint. The Mint does not owe a subsidy to any of us who are sharp enough to know how to work their ordering system, while leaving others to fend for themselves on the secondary market.
None of this should be confused with stifling demand for what would otherwise be popular proof versions of bullion coins, particularly the gold ones, by pricing them far above what the market will bear.
Comments
and at hhl 3, they don't sell out. even the quarter and half are still up
Certainly not like the good old days.
think the design change has anything to do with it?
the previous design has a cut-off and people can make a complete set minus a 1,945 issue. and i wonder if the 1,945 burn also impacted current sales. collectors are looking at a new series of unknown length and why bother after getting burned without a complete set from last series?
Nope. It's all about the 20%+ increase in the price of the metal, and the Mint refusing to make any adjustment to the premium. The design is lovely, but not lovely enough to justify $5980 for a 4-coin set with $4265 worth of gold in it. Not with a 10K product limit, with individual coin mintages ranging from 15K to 28K.
It's not about the design. If they sold 5K sets, with mintages half of what they are, they'd sell out. Alternatively, if they reduced prices to be in line with the mintages, they'd also sell out.
Keys keep things interesting, and represent a windfall for those lucky enough to score one. If we all boycotted every series with a key we couldn't get, most of us wouldn't bother collecting at all.
The 4-coin product limit matches sales, the other coin limits are still way over past sales.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Maybe there will be a low mintage due to low interest because of the price. Double edged sword. Might pay off or might not. Price is to high for me to take that kind of risk.
I would love to get a set a new AGE coins with the new reverse, but the price of gold bullion scares me. I figured out that the AGE Proof set is priced out over $3,200 per ounce of gold gold. OUCH!
That new Mint Director was extremely anti-collector. For the silver Proof set, he kept the price at the same level it had been the previous year with three fewer silver quarters in it. He also cut the quality of the packaging back to where the U.S. now looks like it's a third world country.
Needless to say, I am not among his fans.
That he is a she. ☺️
edited to add: Unless you are speaking of before June 2022.
I am pretty sure @BillJones is talking about Ryder. It was Ryder who did things that were very pro-collector, like introduce the W-Mint quarters, the 75th anniversary privy marks, the Morgan and Peace Dollars, etc.
But he also rejiggered the numismatic program to run more like a real business, which included raising prices to meet the market, rather than allowing us to collect excess profits through easy flips, cutting costs, etc.
Which proof AGE do you see as key(s)?
I just looked at the mintages (again) and I don't consider any to meet the definition. There is a noticeable drop off starting in 2013 (mostly), but too many lower mintage dates negate any as "key" in my view. I don't see the mintage difference as large enough to be meaningful between the lower mintage dates.
I also have a different perspective of "key" coin from US collecting, though that may not be relevant.
I was responding to the comment about the 75th anniversary privy mark. That would be the key, and the inability to obtain one is not why people have no interest in buying one of 19,500 coins at a $900 premium to $2300 spot gold.
As a collector who never made a dime from “easy flips” I was not a fan. He raised the price of the coins that I care about. I could care less about searching rolls for W quarters. They are the new form of easy flips. I have no W quarters nor do I have any interest in them.
I understand. But what he did isn't terrible. He captured profits for the US Treasury that would otherwise go to flippers, which is really part of his job.
In addition, he made it possible for real collectors who would otherwise be crowded out by flippers to obtain their coins directly from the US Mint. Likely at lower prices than would be available on the flipping market, although higher than the give away prices of the past.
It's probably worth keeping in mind that it's the market that ultimately determines value. Not any of us on the forum, and not the US Mint. The Mint does not owe a subsidy to any of us who are sharp enough to know how to work their ordering system, while leaving others to fend for themselves on the secondary market.
None of this should be confused with stifling demand for what would otherwise be popular proof versions of bullion coins, particularly the gold ones, by pricing them far above what the market will bear.