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Did A CACG Key Date Pop 4/0 Silver Roosie Just Sell At Auction For About 10% of the PCGS P.G.?

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  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 12,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Regardless of the area in which a particular coin series has been minted (and regardless of the value of the coins in each series), each series will have collectors and dealers who collect, buy and sell those coins.

    Within each such group of collectors and dealers you will find some persons who are hardwired to seek out and obtain the best of the best of these coins. Basic human nature; and given the competitiveness contained within human DNA, completely understandable.

    So whether you collect coins that are classic, modern, world, ancient, etc. drop dead stunning, drool worthy coins exist. When they are located and assembled into a collection they are a joy to hold and see (including Modern C*ap).

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ProofCollection said:

    @291fifth said:

    @wondercoin said:
    $462.38 for ANY 1955 Roosevelt dime strikes me as absurdly high. It is just another ultra-common date modern coin with an "opinion" that supposedly makes it very valuable ... but not to me.

    Now that is too funny!

    A 70 year old modern coin, but the Classic Commem series ended just the year before! 😂

    Absurdly high at $462.38 - are you listening AZDAVEY! I’m glad he missed the part about the last coin in a PCGS insert (exact same grade) fetching about $6,500.00! 😉

    Wondercoin.

    I didn't miss anything. I simply don't buy into the ultra-high grade plastic moderns bit.

    You don't have to buy into something to profit from it. Clearly there is profit to be made from what you view as readily and easily attainable coins. I'm looking for an MS66FB or MS67FB myself. If you can procure one for me that would be fantastic.

    For most collectors, it's not only a question of the cost and a future potential profit or loss. It's also a question of what other coins the same money can buy. I'd buy this coin if I knew I could flip it for a profit subjectively worth my effort virtually guaranteed. I'd never buy this coin as a collectible at any price, as there are too many other coins I'd rather own for a similar cost.

    That's how most collectors generically if not exactly think of this series, which is why it has its current preference. Only a few collectors can buy (practically) everything they want. Everyone else has to choose.

    Given the premium on this coin, there is a big difference between "making the coin" by submitting it yourself vs. paying "full freight" buying it at the market price.

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:

    @wondercoin said:
    $462.38 for ANY 1955 Roosevelt dime strikes me as absurdly high. It is just another ultra-common date modern coin with an "opinion" that supposedly makes it very valuable ... but not to me.

    Now that is too funny!

    A 70 year old modern coin, but the Classic Commem series ended just the year before! 😂

    Absurdly high at $462.38 - are you listening AZDAVEY! I’m glad he missed the part about the last coin in a PCGS insert (exact same grade) fetching about $6,500.00! 😉

    Wondercoin.

    I didn't miss anything. I simply don't buy into the ultra-high grade plastic moderns bit.

    .
    .

    Modern. That’s an amazing term that we use for coins. I have not heard anyone call a 55-D Chevy modern since early 1960s.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SanctionII said:

    Within each such group of collectors and dealers you will find some persons who are hardwired to seek out and obtain the best of the best of these coins. Basic human nature; and given the competitiveness contained within human DNA, completely understandable.

    Actually, the history of US coin collecting and what's evident practically everywhere else (outside the US) demonstrates that the current price structure (price spreads between grades) is (almost) entirely financial and marketing driven. It was a cultural change from the widespread buying of coins as "investments" starting in the 70s and later TPG which made higher label numbers and registry points valuable. It's not from more recent (mostly post-1986) buyers miraculously discovering the merits of this coinage which their predecessors didn't know.

    This is evident in that it's only in other countries following the US pattern that a similar culture exists, mostly China and South Africa to my knowledge. It's not basic human nature, particularly since in much of the world, the indigenous population never struck their own coinage prior to the colonial period, which is the best explanation why these cultures have essentially zero interest in coin collecting to this day.

  • labloverlablover Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    ‘’If it crosses it’s a rip. I saw it when it was first listed, my thought on it was PCGS has a higher standard for roosies than CAC. I actually did not revisit the coin. Glad it was posted here for discussion. Thanks Martin.”

    Interesting development here - the winner of the GC coin auction was a dealer who reached out to me with a proposal I accepted. I will likely try to cross this coin to PCGS after I receive it. This would be my first experience trying to cross a CACG coin to PCGS. Might as well be a key date coin in a coin series I started my registry set collecting in about 26 years ago! Hoping for the best.

    Wondercoin.

    Edited to add: I just saw that this 1955-P dime is the first ever CACG coin to achieve the finest known grade of MS67+FB across the entire silver dime series. Only (9) coins have ever earned the FB designation at CACG to date. It looks like (71) Roosies have already been graded without the FB designation including one coin in MS68. They do not price + coins, but show the MS67FB undergrade at $650.00 in their Price Guide. Now, I am not sure if it should be crossed or held onto as the first ever MS67+FB silver Roosie ever graded at CACG. Decisions, decisions. lol.

    Keep us posted Mitch, and good luck.

    "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 12,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    WCC.

    You are correct in pointing out that other cultures view things differently. When I said basic human nature I should have mentioned basic human nature in the USA and selected other countries.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,096 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Currin said:

    @291fifth said:

    @wondercoin said:
    $462.38 for ANY 1955 Roosevelt dime strikes me as absurdly high. It is just another ultra-common date modern coin with an "opinion" that supposedly makes it very valuable ... but not to me.

    Now that is too funny!

    A 70 year old modern coin, but the Classic Commem series ended just the year before! 😂

    Absurdly high at $462.38 - are you listening AZDAVEY! I’m glad he missed the part about the last coin in a PCGS insert (exact same grade) fetching about $6,500.00! 😉

    Wondercoin.

    I didn't miss anything. I simply don't buy into the ultra-high grade plastic moderns bit.

    .
    .

    Modern. That’s an amazing term that we use for coins. I have not heard anyone call a 55-D Chevy modern since early 1960s.

    You can consider all US coinage to be modern.

  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2024 3:28PM

    @wondercoin said:
    Edited to add: I just saw that this 1955-P dime is the first ever CACG coin to achieve the finest known grade of MS67+FB across the entire silver dime series. Only (9) coins have ever earned the FB designation at CACG to date. It looks like (71) Roosies have already been graded without the FB designation including one coin in MS68. They do not price + coins, but show the MS67FB undergrade at $650.00 in their Price Guide. Now, I am not sure if it should be crossed or held onto as the first ever MS67+FB silver Roosie ever graded at CACG. Decisions, decisions. lol.

    I wouldn't let that be a factor. The reason why it's the only MS67+FB Rosie isn't scarcity, it's the fact that CACG's only been grading them for a few months and they were never eligible for stickers. Special today, but not special in 5-10 years.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2024 4:52PM

    @ProofCollection said:

    @wondercoin said:
    Edited to add: I just saw that this 1955-P dime is the first ever CACG coin to achieve the finest known grade of MS67+FB across the entire silver dime series. Only (9) coins have ever earned the FB designation at CACG to date. It looks like (71) Roosies have already been graded without the FB designation including one coin in MS68. They do not price + coins, but show the MS67FB undergrade at $650.00 in their Price Guide. Now, I am not sure if it should be crossed or held onto as the first ever MS67+FB silver Roosie ever graded at CACG. Decisions, decisions. lol.

    I wouldn't let that be a factor. The reason why it's the only MS67+FB Rosie isn't scarcity, it's the fact that CACG's only been grading them for a few months and they were never eligible for stickers. Special today, but not special in 5-10 years.

    That being said, they will still be rare unless CACG turns out to be much looser than PCGS, which has graded only 4.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Special today, but not special in 5-10 years.

    Proofcollector: That assumes CACG ever grades another one besides Mr. Hansen’s possible crossover coin from PCGS. Over the past roughly 20 years (since FB grading started) PCGS has graded 4 of them in total! The coin is a true condition rarity in MS67+FB due to the general weakness of the bands in addition to that grade being very difficult to nail down. Indeed, even in the undergrade of MS67FB, PCGS has only graded 17 specimens over the past 20+ years - less than one coin a year turns up at PCGS!

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ‘’Modern. That’s an amazing term that we use for coins. I have not heard anyone call a 55-D Chevy modern since early 1960s.’’

    Agreed Currin. Would anyone poke fun at Walking Liberty Half collectors calling their pop top 1947 coins “modern crap”. I haven’t seen that ever here in my 23 years on this message board. Yet, the silver Roosie that started one year BEFORE that Walker is “hands down” a modern? A curious thing.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,905 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2024 5:23PM

    ‘’Can you request a minimum of 67+ at PCGS for crossing?’’

    Davewesen: Yes you can. The requested cross grade would be 67+FB, unless one was inclined to accept a 67FB lower grade at PCGS. Of course, PCGS could love the coin and grade it MS68FB (pop 1/0). Then, I believe you are looking at a $25,000.00+ mega rarity. Of course, the seller of this dime in requesting his new asking price from me (which I accepted after some “soul searching”) pointed out the possibility that the dime could upgrade at PCGS (as everything he has read suggests CACG might be the toughest grading standard out there today). That “rumor” clearly helped the seller market this coin to me (the ultimate buyer of most “modern crap” out there!). I’ve got a “junkyard” full of it - in all denominations (to the great chagrin of my wife!)

    Wondercoin.

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,335 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    I haven’t missed anything either- Including this Thread started by Mr. Eureka and entitled…

    ‘’Does 291fifth have anything positive to say about anything?’’

    Dear 291fifth - would you actually like to learn something about condition rarities such as this 1955-P 10C in MS67+FB? I’ve been studying this field of numismatics for about 57 years now and I literally learn something new nearly every day.

    Wondercoin.

    I've been involved in the hobby since 1961. I'm sorry you don't like my opinion about modern condition rarities of common date coins.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • labloverlablover Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2024 4:30AM

    @291fifth said:

    @wondercoin said:
    I haven’t missed anything either- Including this Thread started by Mr. Eureka and entitled…

    ‘’Does 291fifth have anything positive to say about anything?’’

    Dear 291fifth - would you actually like to learn something about condition rarities such as this 1955-P 10C in MS67+FB? I’ve been studying this field of numismatics for about 57 years now and I literally learn something new nearly every day.

    Wondercoin.

    I've been involved in the hobby since 1961. I'm sorry you don't like my opinion about modern condition rarities of common date coins.

    If one's goal is to cease an opportunity to make money than it does not matter if the coin is so called modern common date coin.

    "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 3,201 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    ‘’Modern. That’s an amazing term that we use for coins. I have not heard anyone call a 55-D Chevy modern since early 1960s.’’

    Agreed Currin. Would anyone poke fun at Walking Liberty Half collectors calling their pop top 1947 coins “modern crap”. I haven’t seen that ever here in my 23 years on this message board. Yet, the silver Roosie that started one year BEFORE that Walker is “hands down” a modern? A curious thing.

    Wondercoin

    I think there is a stigma against the Roosie since they are still being produced today with the same design as when they were first struck. There's no "nostalgia factor" for them.

    Coin Photographer.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    it is too bad PCGS does not consider it a modern :(

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:

    I think there is a stigma against the Roosie since they are still being produced today with the same design as when they were first struck. There's no "nostalgia factor" for them.

    It's not a lack of nostalgia. No one needs to buy a condition census coin to satisfy it if that's why they collect a coin or series. They can buy a still nice enough one for a few percent of this price.

    The low relative preference for this series is entirely a function of the coin's attributes. The relative appeal of the series is essentially unchanged because collectors perceive the series attributes as they did previously. Most collectors don't really like the design relative to others, it's relatively very common generically, and its relative size isn't a positive either.

    What I am telling you here is equally evident for other relative low preference series, such as 2C and 3C. These coins are more "popular" (preferred) primarily due to the disproportionate size of the US collector base (vs. other markets) and the limited supply in higher quality as a result of the much smaller collector base when the coins circulated.

    For the FDR dime which circulated exclusively during mass market collecting, there isn't a realistic prospect of the collector base ever being large enough to absorb the current supply at "meaningfully" higher prices in a timeframe which has any relevance to anyone reading this thread.

  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2024 4:48PM

    @WCC said:

    @FlyingAl said:

    I think there is a stigma against the Roosie since they are still being produced today with the same design as when they were first struck. There's no "nostalgia factor" for them.

    It's not a lack of nostalgia. No one needs to buy a condition census coin to satisfy it if that's why they collect a coin or series. They can buy a still nice enough one for a few percent of this price.

    For that matter, no one "needs" to collect coins of any type. "Nice enough" in your opinion. I'm sure you recognize why an MS65 might not be good enough for some collectors.

    The low relative preference for this series is entirely a function of the coin's attributes. The relative appeal of the series is essentially unchanged because collectors perceive the series attributes as they did previously. Most collectors don't really like the design relative to others, it's relatively very common generically, and its relative size isn't a positive either.

    As with anything, people will collect them. I don't think anyone disputes anything here, but the market prices are a function of the size of the collector base. There's a buyer for every coin... at the right price. People should be encouraged to collect what they like in the condition that they prefer. The resulting market will determine the value.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,905 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2024 6:38PM

    ‘’What I am telling you here is equally evident for other relative low preference series, such as 2C and 3C.’’

    With all due respect, I just read WCC’s comments in a “glass half full” perspective. We should only get so lucky that the beloved top pop Roosies perform as well as those 2C or 3C series coins perform about 75 years from now! I handled the sale of some of the most incredible 2C and 3C coins in the world when I sold off JHF’s (RIP) collections of those coins. Guess what other coin series JHF decided to collect “aggressively” in the 20th Century? It wasn’t Peace Dollars, Walkers or even Buffalo nickels! It was Jefferson nickels and Roosie dimes!

    I sold JHF’s landmark collection of Silver Roosies at a Superior Galleries Auction as they were the only auction company at the time that had agreed to produce a coffee table soft cover book of his Roosie collection as part of the auction process. JHF wanted this book for all Roosie enthusiasts to enjoy in the future as his collection was that incredible! Superior Auctions literally shut down for good in the same year as they agreed to produce that special book!! lol.

    Old timers like “OnlyRoosies” will tell you just how incredible the sale was of that Roosie silver dime collection (worth at the time around $150,000.00 - $200,000.00). That collection had, at the time, my personal collection I pursued for about 30 years time as well as OnlyRoosies “Set #1” that he collected for decade(s) and sold privately to JHF through me. To name just a couple of the great collections that comprised that set! Now, today, the Roosies get compared to the 2C and 3C sets! What an honor!

    Wondercoin.

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A few people with a lot of money and interest can bid up a coin to what others feel are extreme prices. You just have to hope those few people are still around next time the coin comes up for sale.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    ‘’What I am telling you here is equally evident for other relative low preference series, such as 2C and 3C.’’

    With all due respect, I just read WCC’s comments in a “glass half full” perspective. We should only get so lucky that the beloved top pop Roosies perform as well as those 2C or 3C series coins perform about 75 years from now! I handled the sale of some of the most incredible 2C and 3C coins in the world when I sold off JHF’s (RIP) collections of those coins. Guess what other coin series JHF decided to collect “aggressively” in the 20th Century? It wasn’t Peace Dollars, Walkers or even Buffalo nickels! It was Jefferson nickels and Roosie dimes!

    I don't view higher prices as "positive" and lower prices as "negative". So, no "half empty" or "half full" glass from me. This applies to any coin, including mine.

    The price doesn't have anything to do with collecting as a hobby or the merits of any coin as a collectible.

  • onlyroosiesonlyroosies Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    ‘’Can you request a minimum of 67+ at PCGS for crossing?’’

    Davewesen: Yes you can. The requested cross grade would be 67+FB, unless one was inclined to accept a 67FB lower grade at PCGS. Of course, PCGS could love the coin and grade it MS68FB (pop 1/0). Then, I believe you are looking at a $25,000.00+ mega rarity. Of course, the seller of this dime in requesting his new asking price from me (which I accepted after some “soul searching”) pointed out the possibility that the dime could upgrade at PCGS (as everything he has read suggests CACG might be the toughest grading standard out there today). That “rumor” clearly helped the seller market this coin to me (the ultimate buyer of most “modern crap” out there!). I’ve got a “junkyard” full of it - in all denominations (to the great chagrin of my wife!)

    Wondercoin.

    So if we are saying that CACG might be tougher than PCGS should we be expecting pricing for CACG coins to be at or near PCGS price guide. Providing we agree with the PCGS price guide.

    With that said I was just informed I made an 1879 Shield 5c CACG PF67+Cam pop 1/0 and also pop 1/0 for the series. PCGS price guide for this date and grade is $22,500 with a pop of 2/0. What $$$$ should I expect to receive for this coin? I have already put a value on it. Curious what others think the Value should be.

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,407 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I came to this late but had one random thought... If Wondercoin bought it, but had to do a little soul searching

    • It's pretty freaking special
    • You got absolute top dollar

    That second one will last until somebody starts stacking Benjamins on the showcase...

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ‘’With that said I was just informed I made an 1879 Shield 5c CACG PF67+Cam pop 1/0 and also pop 1/0 for the series. PCGS price guide for this date and grade is $22,500 with a pop of 2/0. What $$$$ should I expect to receive for this coin? I have already put a value on it. Curious what others think the Value should be.’’

    Congratulations Nick!

    The dime (subject matter of this tread) sold for 10C on the dollar of the PCGS P.G. One possible explanation was that CAC doesn’t currently have the true MS Roosie collectors over in their “camp”. On the other hand, I would think CAC has Proof Shield nickel Classic coin collectors squarely in their “camp” - right? So, consign the coin, once again, to Justin (lol) with him asking on eBay the level you now believe the coin should comfortably sell at (half kidding of course).

    Good luck with your very cool coin and let me know what it eventually realizes.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.

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