Civil war token experts comments please on this ddo

Ppp

I just picked up this 1863 civil war token labeled as a doubled die on the “3”. I believe it’s # 81/351 copper (it weighs 3.5g).

I am having trouble finding information and value on this token.

Also, I think it is a very high grade and depending on what the realistic value is will determine should I get it graded.

Questions:
-is it a # 81/351 copper?
-is this a true ddo error?
-approximate value?
-estimate of grade?

Thank you in advance for your comments.

JBK

Wouldn't that be a repunched date (3) instead of a doubled die?

jmlanzaf

@JBK said:
Wouldn't that be a repunched date (3) instead of a doubled die?

This.

Value is tough to assess. There are a lot of varieties of many CWT types and I'm not sure many people yet to complete the set.

jonathanb

@Ppp how about you suggest answers to your four questions and we'll see if you're on target? The last is more of an opinion question but the first three are straightforward.

Fraz

Ppp

Johnathanb: fair enough

Questions:
-is it a # 81/351 copper?
I wasn’t clear. I came up with 81/351 using my 1965 (yes, I am old 🙂) patriotic civil war token book by George and Melvin fund. The tokens previous owner didn’t have a number assigned to it.
My guess is copper because of the weight and color.

-is this a true ddo error?
This is a reason I asked for help because I can’t find any reference to a doubled die error or as “jbk” wrote a repunched date.
Jbk thank you I didn’t think of that option.

-approximate value?
If it is somewhat valuable as an error I truly have no idea since I can’t find anything on this error. Is it a $10- coin, like many tokens I have, or a $1,000-.

-estimate of grade?
This is the nicest cwt I have ever seen. I believe it is best case low MS, worst case high AU.

jonathanb

@Ppp your responses are not on target.

Our host has several pictures of 81/351 available online, for example at https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1863-token-f-81-351a-crossed-cannons-patriotic-bn/604530. All of those pictures show a date with very wide spacing between the 8 and the 6. Your example does not have that very wide spacing. Therefore, yours is not 81/351. Looking at nearby pages, it appears that yours is 80/351: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1863-token-f-80-351a-crossed-cannons-patriotic-rb/604526

A doubled die is a doubled DIE. The die is doubled. It takes very unusual circumstances for a doubled die to show in only a single character. On the other hand, it is extremely common for individual characters to be recut or repunched, especially on 19th century coins and double-especially on privately minted coins with poor quality control.

eBay has thousands of sale records for Civil War tokens, in the past few months alone. They still have hundreds of sales even if you narrow down to Indian Head varieties: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=civil+war+token+1863+indian&_sacat=0&rt=nc&_odkw=civil+war+token+1863&_osacat=0&_sop=16&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1. Examples similar to yours have sold for about $30, give or take a bit. The repunching on your example is a variety, not an error. That repunching will (must!) be seen on all examples of 80/351. Since the repunching must be present on all examples of that variety, it does not add anything beyond the normal value of the variety.

I agree that your example might be a technical unc, or maybe a high AU. On the other hand, the links above show many Civil War tokens in much higher grades than yours. If you have never seen a Civil War token that is nicer than yours, you might spend some time looking at those links.

Ppp

Johnathanb: thank you for the comments.

I was in between 81/351 and 80/351 using the pictures in my old book. Obviously, I picked the wrong one, oops.

Unfortunately, all the tokens I see are not in the best shape and I don’t use eBay to buy/sell coins/tokens however, the recent sold information would have been help.

I never had luck trying use the PCGS site in finding civil war tokens. I tried using the search bar and the PCGS price guide link. If I found them on the site I would have figured out the coin is probably 80/351.

Thank you for the links however, I still can’t duplicate what you did. I see from your links you went through CoinFacts but how did you get to “coin” and thus the civil war tokens. I still can’t figure it out.
I would appreciate if you could reply what is the next step once you are on this page (see picture)?

Thank you

lilolme

@Ppp said:

Thank you for the links however, I still can’t duplicate what you did. I see from your links you went through CoinFacts but how did you get to “coin” and thus the civil war tokens. I still can’t figure it out.
I would appreciate if you could reply what is the next step once you are on this page (see picture)?

Thank you

.
There is a 'missing' category on that home page of Miscellaneous.
Bookmark the page below for it.
After selecting the civil war tokens, then select Temp. (don't know why that one is called that)
Note: stuff is listed by pcgs coin number, so things are not necessarily in an order one might expect.
.
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/category/miscellaneous/917

jonathanb

@lilolme gave the right answer, but that's not what I actually did. I did a web search for "81/351 civil war token" (without the quotes). Since that gave lots of links, I picked the top one from our host as the most appropriate one to repost on this board.

Ppp

lilolme: thank you

sellitstore

A Google search on "80/351" "civil war token" got me to images of the obverse in one click and one can see the recut "3" clearly in an example being offered on ebay for about $50.

Knowing where to look and search terms to use can make finding answers much easier but, of course, I'm only offering my 20-20 hindsight here. If you get stuck, try playing around with the quotes on the Google search.