How to determine Die Marriage

yspsales

I get the concept but it has always been lost on me.

For VAM's and varieties I use the known pickup points.

I have never had to grow beyond that hurdle.

If I wanted to undertake a study of say 1886p Morgan (or any series) it leaves me scratching my head.

Any good reference books?

Am I overthinking it?

The magnetic Lincoln cent @jmlanzaf showed awhile back got me to thinking. How do you document or determine a die marriage.

@messydesk can you help.

Catbert

Visit the LSCC.org and see Bill Bugert's variety books for the seated half series. Extremely detailed and expanded pics, etc.

Catbert

Here's a representative page:

lsccweb.org/BillBugertBooks/Bugert-Vol-I-SF.pdf

yosclimber

If you are doing your own die marriage study,
you will have to find the "pickup points", unless some are already known.
Some common pickup points are:

• date position
• mint mark position (if the coin has a mint mark)
• die cracks (more common in older coins)
• clash marks
• die lines (usually requires a very high resolution photo or having the coin under a stereo microscope)

messydesk

Looking at the Bugert books is a good idea, since they specifically show all the marriages between the obverse and reverse dies.

For VAMs, this is a bit trickier. There are some dates where a VAM number correlates to exactly one die marriage, and some where it correlates to approximately one. Dates that haven't been closely studied looking for the stuff @yosclimber mentions above fall into the latter category. Dates like 78, 78-S, and 78-CC have been studies closely enough that all die marriages are most likely known. In some cases the sequence in which they were struck relative to other uses of one of the dies is also known.

lermish

This comes up somewhat regularly with chopped T$s as sometimes the pick up points are obscured or no longer exist. @yosclimber has excellent advice. I would also recommend looking for die scratches in the denticles. It's not the easiest but is pretty definitive.

yspsales

Thank you.

Very helpful advice.

Being a VAM and variety geek has always protected me to a degree in my purchases.

Just need to expand my circle of competence and understand the why and how

pursuitofliberty

@yosclimber said:
If you are doing your own die marriage study,
you will have to find the "pickup points", unless some are already known.
Some common pickup points are:

• date position
• mint mark position (if the coin has a mint mark)
• die cracks (more common in older coins)
• clash marks
• die lines (usually requires a very high resolution photo or having the coin under a stereo microscope)

#
.
Good list

Although ... while I don't discount the inclusion of Die Clashes in helping with some issues, I have come to understand and appreciate the wisdom of the BHNC in NOT including them in Die State studies. Die Clashes fade and can be polished away over time, and so using them as a Die Marriage marker may not be the best indication.

Anything else that can be different on the Die, including Date, Mintmark and/or Device positions (depending on the type of coin), and especially Die Chips, Die Lines, specific Polishing anomalies and/or Dies Cracks will be extremely helpful.