question on selling old INS coins

apricot

My father had a collection of Morgan dollars graded by INS. He has all the documentation for them, the packaging, invoices etc, from the 1980's. We have been told they tend to be graded higher than they should by today's standards. Should we leave them in their INS packaging and sell them as is or remove them from the packaging when we take them to a coin shop? Should we remove them from packaging and get them graded at PCGS? One person said if he bought them he would take then out of the packaging, but then also said their are probably people out there that would want the coins left in the boxes with the INS label. Coins are not our thing and we want to sell the coins, but not lose too much money by being novices. Thanks for your help.

yosclimber

The cost of getting them graded by PCGS is fairly high, ($23, $40 or $70 each, plus a membership fee).
The value in return could be high if their true grade is high.
For example, look at the PCGS Price Guide.
An 1880-S Morgan Dollar is a fairly common date.
The values in higher grades are:
MS-63 $90
MS-64 $115
MS-65 $240
MS-66 $425
https://www.pcgs.com/prices/detail/morgan-dollar/744/most-active

So if you have one and its true grade is MS-64, you only gain $25 by having it in a PCGS slab,
compared to if the buyer thinks it is an MS-63.
But if the true grade is MS-65, you gain $125 vs. if the buyer thinks it is an MS-64.

To know the true grade, you would need to show them to some people who are good graders
and are not biased because you are selling to them.

One way to get some grade opinions is to take some good photos of the coins with the highest grades shown on the holder
and share them here in this thread.

To get the most money when selling, get multiple offers.
One way is to go to a coin show.

apricot

What you wrote is really helpful.
We did take some to 2 different coin shops to ask about the coins and learned that some are high value and many are low value, but then I think we learned how much we don't know, hence this post.

What I really don't understand is if it is better to take them out of this INS cases that are graded or leave them in?
To me they are really cool history, although maybe graded too high for what they are. I don't want to take them out if they are unusual and someone wants the INS labeling, or I am disturbing or devaluing the coins by taking them out of packaging. Any suggestions?
Also, does seeing the coins in INS packaging make coin shops biased against the coins because they say INS?
Would it be harmful to just take them out of the packaging?
Was INS a type of scam? Was my father paying for a coin that said 65, but they were scamming him because it was really lower, like a 63?

I am learning so much about him and this whole world of numismatics.

I hadn't heard that going to a coin show would be good, so thank you for that. Would that be better than going to several individual coin shops?

yosclimber

For a buyer who knows how to grade, it does not matter what holder the coin is in and what grade is printed on it.
They will simply look at the coin to estimate the true grade.
You want to find this type of buyer.

If a buyer does not know how to grade (accurately), they won't be able to offer as much because they won't know the true value.
Some buyers may use the slab type as an excuse to offer a lower price.
Personally, I would leave them in the packaging, to at least protect the coins.

The original INS grading service was not a scam.
It was just a very early grading service that used technical grading instead of market grading that has become the norm.
INS under later ownership might have been a place where people paid to get higher printed grades than the true grade of the coin; I don't know.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1008007/so-what-is-up-with-ins-coin-holders-i-e-international-numismatic-society

It is also possible that the company or person who sold the coins to your father might have known they were overgraded (if in fact they are overgraded).

A coin show is mostly a faster way to get multiple offers. The dealers there may also have lower overhead than a coin shop, and some of them may be more accurate at grading.

apricot

This is so incredibly helpful! I feel like I have so much more of a clear direction now.

It's also a relief to know that INS maybe wasn't as bad as I thought. My father always believed the best in everyone, so I have my concerns.

This collection has been a source of stress, but you have really helped make me feel more like I can do right by my father and not just "give" it away. Thank you!!

291fifth

Post some photos of the coins in the holders and you may be able to get a better feel for accurate current grades.

tommy44

Where are you located? There is a big coin show this coming weekend in Dalton Georgia where there will be about 500 dealers. There will also be a couple of grading services there that may be willing to give you an opinion on the grades of your coins.

If Dalton isn’t convenient do a google search on “coin shows near me”. A coin show would probably be the best place to get a feel for what your coins are worth.

Pictures here is also a good idea.

davewesen

look at the grades and values from PCGS price guide to see for yourself which ones have great value. The numbers written on the INS certificates are a starting place, but remember they may be a couple points high. Then decide what you want to do. Most coin shops make their money buying low. You may get an offer for the entre group that is less than the top couple coins are worth.

https://pcgs.com/prices/detail/morgan-dollar/744/most-active

apricot

This has all been such great advice! Photos, coin show and links.
And, although I didn't want to have to get this involved in your world of coins, I think I was learning - "You may get an offer for the entire group that is less than the top couple coins are worth." - is very real and something I want to avoid.

So, now I will take the time and learn more about these coins in order to try to do right by my father and my family.
I will look at the links and pricing, study the coins and try to find a coin show - in Southern California.

Thanks all for giving me direction!! I am very grateful for this forum being available!

BStrauss3

INS holders ARE collectible, albeit in a thin market.

First off, which type? Washington, Philadelphia, or Aston PA? (The Aston are very very rare).

Several SoCal members may be able to help. @davidschwager, Mike Kittle (http://www.kittlecoins.com/) come to mind.

lilolme

If you have not made a list with the applicable information that you have (slab information...), then this might help both you and when talking to dealer/buyer.

Some more links:

Coin shows - here are two websites. I only sorted for California. The Long Beach show, which is a well known and larger show, is June 6 - 8.

https://www.coinzip.com/index.php?state=CA

https://www.coinshows-usa.com/coin-shows/California/

Dealers: This is the pcgs authorized dealers. I sorted for California (and US coins) but still had 196 listed so not sure how much this helps as much more sorting is needed. However, after the sort it does not change the website link and therefore the below link will need to be sorted for applicable location (California) and specialty If desired (US coin).

https://www.pcgs.com/dealers/results

More coin price links - I sorted for Morgan Dollars.
Most price guides are oriented toward retail and not wholesale (dealer buying).

http://www.numismedia.com/rarecoinprices/cgi/usrarecoinvalues.cgi?script=mordlr&searchtype=any&searchtext=fmv&search6=any&proof=&plus=

https://www.coinworld.com/coinvalues/dollar/morgan-dollar.html

apricot

Thank you all so much for this information. Incredible! Really helpful advice!
I went from being discouraged and stressed, to hopeful and ready to take on a new challenge.
I am going to try to have fun with this, do my research (thank you for the links!) and then go to the coin show in Long Beach.
That will be a new unique experience!

Cougar1978

Just shop the INS stuff around the bourse at a show and see what you can get.

Frankly they in wrong holder - u need get them in PCGS holders.

The buyer will be looking at subtracting costs of grading (PCGS) - plus probly 50 pct or more off their MV CPG based on INS grade, hedge lowballing it down crossover hit, etc. To have chance making any money flipping the deal.

To experienced players like me those TPG’s not accepted by ebay risk wise like raw coins ….. Tough Cheerios but that’s how it is.

So I think a lot of them will low ball heck out of them. Otherwise you need get them graded by our hosts. There is no free ride in RCI. Then y looking at them offering like CDN bid less say 20pct. (Shopx arounf bourse). Once they in PCGS holders.

Something like that I would most likely pass as would get swamped by the cross over grading costs not considering risk of grade hits. Not the bank on that stuff.

So you need imo get them graded by our hosts. Or just start on bay at auction as is at 99c for the markets verdict. After eBay fees for shipping and listing you will make ….

yspsales

If you can take quality photos, list one or two on ebay. You might be surprised at how well they do.

Do this after shopping them around to get offers.

Do this after posting them on this forum to get a free opinion.

There are several different types of Morgan collectors. Toning attracts everyone. Die marriage specialists (VAM). Even grading company collectors.

Like others said, the grading fees to cross them can be prohibitive. OTOH Ebay fees and shipping add up.

Unless something really special... ebay @ .99 cents, 7 day auction

List them and I promise you it will be poured over by both collectors and dealers.

lkenefic

Lots of great advice here... Definitely study the coins and get a feel for what you have before going to a major show. Long Beach was the one that sprung to my mind when you said you were in So. Cal.

If you have the capability of decent quality photography, I'd try the BST Forum (Buy/Sell/Trade) on this website. No fees and you can negotiate shipping/insurance. The only other advice I'd give about ebay (as a last resort) is to do 10-day auctions and start them on Thursday evenings (early evening since you're on the west coast). This gets two weekends' worth of eyes on your coins and I've found that ending ebay auctions on a Sunday evening gets more followers, and bidders. Watch ebay fees and shipping costs though... also, it's sort of nebulous (to me) about selling more than $600 worth of material and filing a 1099 for next years' taxes... something to consider.

Best of Luck!

oih82w8

I believe that INS holders are collected by some enthusiasts. But finding them (collectors) may be the hard part. I may have to look into those holdered coins for an example in my slab collection.

rte592

@apricot said:
Thank you all so much for this information. Incredible! Really helpful advice!
I went from being discouraged and stressed, to hopeful and ready to take on a new challenge.
I am going to try to have fun with this, do my research (thank you for the links!) and then go to the coin show in Long Beach.
That will be a new unique experience!

Welcome to the Coin World, Maybe your Father's influence will start you on collecting coins.
I would not crack out any of the holders.

pointfivezero

@oih82w8 said:
I believe that INS holders are collected by some enthusiasts. But finding them may be the hard part. I may have to look into those holdered coins for an example in my slab collection.

This is very true. My INS acquisitions were some of the hardest to find (and most expensive) of my slab collection.

Tim

BStrauss3

Post them in the BST here... several of us might be interested (wink wink)

jesbroken

Do yourself a favor and post 4 or 5 photos of the highest grade coin in their holders obv/rev and let us see how they fare with INS grades. Won't cost you a thing. It would be most interesting to us and beneficial to you.
Jim

Greenstang

One thing to remember, if you post them on eBay, you will have to black out the
INS grades as they are not one of eBay’s accepted graders. This means that any
buyers will have to grade them themselves from the photos supplied.