eBay selling fake coins and holders again...
ianrussell
Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
I am still shocked that a U.S. company like eBay can profit from fake U.S. money being sold without being shut down. This seller has another fake listed. I bet they end the two listings, but do they reach out to every other buyer that this seller has sold to? No, eBay does not.
eBay:
Please join the PNG
Please adhere to the ANA Code of Ethics
Please stop selling fake U.S. currency
Ian Russell
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
13
Comments
I find it a little inaccurate to call eBay the "seller".
Maybe you should include FB, IG, and Craigslist in your rant. And, of course, Alibaba.
Just last week, we had a newer collector stop by our office with the 'graded' Chinese pieces they recently bought off of eBay. Every single one was a counterfeit PCGS slab. They were all Dragon dollars, Junk dollars and British Trade dollars, not deceptive if you know the series and PCGS slabs well, but if you're a newer collector and been advised to only buy such coins in slabs from PCGS and NGC, it can certainly be confusing.
Justin Meunier
Boardwalk Numismatics
eBay is profiting from the fakes. eBay collects the money.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
But that doesn't make them the "seller" any more than the person who supplies the shipping boxes, sells advertising, does payment processing, etc is the"seller". They may all enable and profit from the transaction but they aren't the "seller".
As an ebay user, I don't like the fakes but I also want limits on how intrusive ebay is. There are obvious counterfeits and there are also coins that are not obviously real but might be. I would rather not have to convince ebay that every coin I sell is 100% authentic beyond any reasonable doubt.
It's a sticky situation. Since they profit from these sellers, it is eBay's responsibility to police themselves and to actively shut down these fake slab sellers. But it is also the purchaser's responsibility to do their due diligence before they spend their money.
You're mad at the wrong person (company).
There’s no “again”, as it didn’t stop in the first place. Sellers continue to list counterfeits on eBay.
I understand how eBay can’t monitor and catch anywhere near all of the counterfeit listings. However, they seem way too lax in allowing sellers - including repeat offenders - of large quantities of fakes to continue to sell.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I’ve had genuine material taken down as fake because it was raw, yet fake stuff in fake slabs can remain up. It’s frustrating, and it makes me wonder about their process for this kind of thing.
Dealing in Canadian and American coins and historical medals.
It’s hard for me to believe there is much of any process these days. I reported a listing that was selling a note identical to this several months back. The listing was never pulled and deemed as legitimate initially by eBay’s AI and even after talking to them in person.
what was the closing price on that note?
Policing listings of all types must be a huge task. Millions of listings in countless categories. Disappointing that they don’t block repeat offenders, I don’t see any excuse for that. One strike for ignorance, two strikes out.
I am afraid I have always been too chicken to actually try buying a coin on E-bay. I did buy my wife a doll but that is where my interest ends. I just would rather know somebody else has done the donkey work of vetting the coins I am interested in. then I can just enjoy my hobby.
I know that approach has an opportunity cost and I always say "What is life without a little risk?" however there are certain risk I would rather not take. James
IIRC it was a couple of hundred. Here is one that sold earlier this year for $1000
https://www.ebay.com/itm/374954126062?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=p6imucbvqtc&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=zw5qH5GFS4C&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
ebay allows wrong to continue. We honest users ought to be outraged that those in charge at Ebay are allowing ——- to happen under their blind eyes.
We must abide by ( obey) the terms of service. Ebay obey ? They’re the rulers, and since one member here says ebay isn’t the seller ( technically I agree) in essence they are: gatekeepers. Their band(mob) of lawyers should be met by a host of lawyers representing the multitudes who are continually cheated, unscrupulously, yet never held to the same standard. California ? Isn’t that the headquarters for consumer protection ? Oops, it’s about law and order. please don’t ban me.
Madness is within the walls of such places.
What about HiBid? I continue to post bad stuff listed through their forum but get told they aren't the seller...
They aren't. Same issue, more or less. They provide a service to the actual seller. To what extent do you hold the platform responsible for the actions of users?
To me, they are the enabler...
eBay should be taken to courts in U.S. and Canada for many things........
In Canada they even illegally tax us on precious metals of purity 999 (when the law says no tax or anything on precious metals of purity 999). I opened many cases with them regarding this but their stupid agents do not understand anything nor know anything about gold or silver, they think those are colors for metals!!!! Amazing how many low IQ people we have nowadays.
When I get on eBay and look at raw Morgan dollars, the first few sponsored listings are usually fakes from China. I used to report them, but I'd always get a canned response saying the listing doesn't violate eBay policy so I quit wasting my energy.
I appreciate Ian and others bringing this to the attention of the coin collector community. It's wrong to sell fake coins for real money. The change to an argument about who is really the culprit; the platform or the "seller" doesn't resonate to a first time buyer or novice collector. It hurts the hobby as a whole. Start another thread about that if you wish.
Enabler indeed!
The bigger issues relating to this problem with online marketplaces like Ebay, extend throughout the entire internet and include social media outlets. At the core are arguments of free speech and just “who” is responsible for whatever is taking place on their platforms. These issues are being hashed out in the courts and governments worldwide.
This forum is moderated, and I believe it’s better for most of us that way.
I’ll leave most of my personal opinions out of this, but agree that Ebay could be doing a LOT more to reel in the problems.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Ebay does the bare minimum to create the illusion that they give a crap, theres really no excuse for how easy it is for someone to repeatedly list counterfeits, despite having multiple listings removed for that reason.
Founder- Peak Rarities
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Which is true. Although they should have some obligation, read their T&Cs they dump it all back on the actual sellers.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
The thing about these eBay sales is they
eBay just doesn't care. They make money from FVF. No sales, no FVF.
Nobody with a stick has enough individual complaints. It would take 30 or 40 of the State Attorney's General to file a lawsuit. Which would be settled with a consent decree, no admission of guilt, and be ignored/violated as soon as the ink dried.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
eBay needs to ban sellers from certain categories for repeat sellers of fakes
The only 3 things I would like ebay to do different, are:
1) When an auction is removed it should say why
2) Inform any bidders why the auction was removed
3) Get rid of the ridiculous and ineffective AI and return to listening to groups of educated folks on this forum, whom
they are well aware of credential wise. I understand how hard and probably ineffective it would be to have an inhouse
security team to prevent counterfeits from being listed, so so many coins on ebay. Use name, address, phone numbers,
credit card info to identify repeat offenders under a new seller ID and eliminate them. I am talking about software, not
employees.
JMO
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Am I the only one surprised by the topic of this thread? Fake coins in fake slabs have been sold on eBay for many years and is certainly nothing new. Over the years, there have been numerous threads about fake coins being for sale on eBay.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Curious if the target of the post "eBay" is a member here?
@PerryHall. My house was built during the reign of Augustus and yet we keep slapping new paint on it. sometimes certain things just need to be revisited. james
I reported these listings yesterday and quickly received a note back from eBay stating that they had found nothing wrong. This is despite my mentioning the mismatch between the PCGS records and the labels and how the inclusion of “Morgan” was a dead giveaway.
eBay clearly does much too little to prevent the sale of counterfeits. They may not be the seller but they provide the platform and have a duty of care.
Smitten with DBLCs.
At what point does a selling/auction host go from a neutral third party to a criminal accessory to fraud? Conspiracy? RICO?
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
If Caeser Augustus were still around, he would say "Caveat emptor!"
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
No
This is a fantasy note and perfectly legal to sell on Ebay and doesn't violate Ebay policy if listed correctly. What's the problem? Would you be fooled by a St. Gaudens $200 gold coin?
All Million Dollar US notes are fantasy issues. The U.S. never issued anything larger than a $10,000 for circulation. The $100,000 note that this resembles was never released to the public.
If you don't want to buy my $200 St. Gaudens coins, maybe I could interest you in an 1849 double eagle?
It doesn’t seem so overwhelming for Ebay to work towards reeling this in.
They could hire a couple of part time numismatist‘s, working remotely to identify the most egregious offenders, pull the listings and forward the seller ID’s to their enforcement department (if that exists).
Social media companies have such employees, and they often end up traumatized! This would be a piece of cake in comparison. 😉
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
The seller certainly didn’t portray this as a fantasy note. I fully agree that’s what it is but when the seller has words like “authentic” and “legal tender” in the listing that’s where I’m guessing it slips into a violation of the TOS.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/374954126062?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=p6imucbvqtc&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=zw5qH5GFS4C&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
The word "Authentic" is the only problem with the sold listing. The description is actually accurate. Ebay and other platforms still achieve ripoff prices for fraudulent items because of greed, ignorance and their endless supply of suckers born every minute.
Tip for coin collectors: Don't bid on any packs of currency embedded in lucite, especially if the top note's serial number doesn't end in "01".
Wow! I just went on this seller's eBay website - lintheadrestorations
For sale is an Early - 1890-O Good Date . Morgan Silver Dollar - 90% US Coin . Nice Details!
"It was struck in a business style in New Orleans and is certified as uncirculated."
I have not and will never buy a raw coin on ebay. I will however use ebay to search for coins and then use them to lead me to dealers with websites and then conduct business thought their site.
It's out of control and nobody wants to be held responsible. If they can't or won't police their platform and protect the buyer's I will do my business else ware. Some will say that this company is too big to fail, just watch, history does repeat
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
AI description
Oh, I see, it's only a 90% US Coin. Is that why the reverse is bigger than the obverse?
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Posting a screenshot of the fake million dollar note that eBay is happy to collect a fee on selling.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
I completely disagree.
You're making a commitment to purchase or honor your winning bid with eBay. You're being invoiced by eBay. You're paying eBay. eBay is earning fees. You have a problem, you contact eBay. This is eBay's responsibility to ensure they are not selling fake U.S. currency.
And to be clear - the U.S. law:
18 U.S.C. § 471 makes it a federal crime to falsely make, alter, or counterfeit any security or obligation that belongs to the United States of America. The obligations and securities covered under the federal statute include currency, treasury notes, reserve notes and bonds.
It should be noted there are several statutes that address the creating, distributing, or using counterfeit currency. These laws make it a crime to:
Possess imprints, digital images, or impressions made to create counterfeit money, or to sell these items with intent to defraud.
Ian
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
I always thought that was called "accessory"? Never mind
There was something else going on with this seller for this to get to this level before being removed...
And by the way, seller didn't like me...
I remember about 18 years ago or so, there was some group of anonymous people on the forum who called themselves something like “the posse” that used to create throw away eBay accounts and put in nuclear $1,000,000 bids on counterfeit coins and then let eBay and the seller have to deal with the non-payment. I forget exactly how, but they would use alt accounts or something to show the rest of the forum what they did. It would prevent newbie collectors from getting burned and would cause the sellers and eBay a certain amount of hassle. I don’t know if this would work today without “the posse” getting in trouble, but I thought it was an interesting way to police eBay that seemed to have at least a limited effect on the sellers of counterfeit coins if/when people reporting the counterfeits to eBay had no effect.
Mr_Spud
Now you're conflating ebay with the actual counterfeiter?
So, I assume you also hold Vusa and Mastercard liable. You pay them. They take a fee. If you have a problem, you have to deal with them....
I wasn't part of the anonymous group but I piled on using my regular account, thinking that I would be able to SNAD the item as fake if I actually won. I never won, the auctions were nuked before completion. It was a good way to find out your ebay credit limit, as I recall I was able to put in some $250k bids, but then I somehow got downgraded to 100k limit.
It looks like there are about 1.67 million items listed in just the U.S. coins category on eBay right at this moment versus about 11 thousand listed at Great Collections.
Even if the US government fined eBay for each sold counterfeit it probably wouldn't make a difference to them. eBay has very little incentive to do anything more than they already have about the issue and that is unlikely to change.