Yes k’s are extremely negative.
If you strikeout 150 times and next year cut that down to 75, then you’ll be getting on base a lot more.
Can’t believe I have to explain simple math. So what if balboni could have cut down on strikeouts? Doesn’t his production naturally get better?
@Darin said:
Yes k’s are extremely negative.
If you strikeout 150 times and next year cut that down to 75, then you’ll be getting on base a lot more.
Can’t believe I have to explain simple math. So what if balboni could have cut down on strikeouts? Doesn’t his production naturally get better?
K's in relation to contact outs are 98% the same. and that is the point. You are giving too much credit for guys who make contact outs and give too much negative credit to guys who make strike outs.
Buckner is hailed as a HOF hitter by some because he made a lot of contact outs. Balboni and CO. are said to belong in a softball league because they make a lot of strike outs. There are even people who believe Buckner is a better hitter than Reggie Jackson becuase of that thinking.
If Balboni were able to cut down on his strikeouts while also still hitting 31 home runs, then yes his production would increase.
Do you think he could do that? If he or any other HR hitter could do that, then they all would, and then they all wouldn't just be slightly above average. The league would be filled with superstars.
They don't have the skill to do that.
Do you think if Buckner added more strike outs instead of ground outs, and with those extra strike outs came 15 more home runs per year and 35 more BB that he would be more productive??
In the end it is their OPS+ that matters and THAT is what they should be trying to increase!
@Darin in other words, you are asking Steve Balboni to stop striking out but still hit 31 home runs. You are telling him to be George Brett! That would be great if it was that easy to do.
In the end, he is Balboni with a 112 OPS+ earning a viable spot in the batting order on a MLB team, regardless how many times he did strike out, because he skill set was still productive enough, and he, nor any hitter like him, belong in a softball league.
Why not flip that and tell the guys who have an ops+ of 91 to stop grounding out to second, start getting on base more, and hit more home runs.
That is a great idea. "Hey Buckner, nice ground out to second, but next time I want you to hit that ball over the fence."
@Darin so nothing gets lost in my examples, George Brett was the real MVP in the AL that year..just want to make that clear.
Also, I am hyper aware that a strikeout is still slightly worse than a contact out, so Balboni's 112 OPS+ with his amount of strikeouts has a more real value of 110 or 111, but that is the extent of the negative impact of a strikeout compared to a contact out. Problem is, people overblow the strikeout and ignore that 112 OPS+ and relegate Balboni to a softball league.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said: @Darin in other words, you are asking Steve Balboni to stop striking out but still hit 31 home runs. You are telling him to be George Brett! That would be great if it was that easy to do.
In the end, he is Balboni with a 112 OPS+ earning a viable spot in the batting order on a MLB team, regardless how many times he did strike out, because he skill set was still productive enough, and he, nor any hitter like him, belong in a softball league.
Why not flip that and tell the guys who have an ops+ of 91 to stop grounding out to second, start getting on base more, and hit more home runs.
That is a great idea. "Hey Buckner, nice ground out to second, but next time I want you to hit that ball over the fence."
Yes I think balboni could still hit 31 dingers with 66 strikeouts compared to 166. He swung at a lot of bad pitches off the plate which if he connected wouldn’t have been a hr anyway.
Look at John Mayberry’s stats with the royals to see what balboni or even Salvy could have been(I mention Salvy because he’s never seen a pitch he didn’t like). Mayberry had numbers with the royals that should have you and Dallas drooling. Power, high walk rate, good OBP, ops+ of 132. Only 6 years as a royal but a great player.
That is what balboni’s, Salvys, and Bo Jackson’s numbers could have looked like if they would just lay off swinging at so many balls.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said: @Darin in other words, you are asking Steve Balboni to stop striking out but still hit 31 home runs. You are telling him to be George Brett! That would be great if it was that easy to do.
In the end, he is Balboni with a 112 OPS+ earning a viable spot in the batting order on a MLB team, regardless how many times he did strike out, because he skill set was still productive enough, and he, nor any hitter like him, belong in a softball league.
Why not flip that and tell the guys who have an ops+ of 91 to stop grounding out to second, start getting on base more, and hit more home runs.
That is a great idea. "Hey Buckner, nice ground out to second, but next time I want you to hit that ball over the fence."
Yes I think balboni could still hit 31 dingers with 66 strikeouts compared to 166. He swung at a lot of bad pitches off the plate which if he connected wouldn’t have been a hr anyway.
Look at John Mayberry’s stats with the royals to see what balboni or even Salvy could have been(I mention Salvy because he’s never seen a pitch he didn’t like). Mayberry had numbers with the royals that should have you and Dallas drooling. Power, high walk rate, good OBP, ops+ of 132. Only 6 years as a royal but a great player.
That is what balboni’s, Salvys, and Bo Jackson’s numbers could have looked like if they would just lay off swinging at so many balls.
If you could get a guy like that in MLB to do that then you are in the wrong field because you could make millions upon millions.
You make it sound so easy, lol.
Give Gallo a call. He is still young enough. 35 HR .280 BA and a good eye will be worth 30 million a year next year for a four year deal.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said: @Darin in other words, you are asking Steve Balboni to stop striking out but still hit 31 home runs. You are telling him to be George Brett! That would be great if it was that easy to do.
In the end, he is Balboni with a 112 OPS+ earning a viable spot in the batting order on a MLB team, regardless how many times he did strike out, because he skill set was still productive enough, and he, nor any hitter like him, belong in a softball league.
Why not flip that and tell the guys who have an ops+ of 91 to stop grounding out to second, start getting on base more, and hit more home runs.
That is a great idea. "Hey Buckner, nice ground out to second, but next time I want you to hit that ball over the fence."
Yes I think balboni could still hit 31 dingers with 66 strikeouts compared to 166. He swung at a lot of bad pitches off the plate which if he connected wouldn’t have been a hr anyway.
Look at John Mayberry’s stats with the royals to see what balboni or even Salvy could have been(I mention Salvy because he’s never seen a pitch he didn’t like). Mayberry had numbers with the royals that should have you and Dallas drooling. Power, high walk rate, good OBP, ops+ of 132. Only 6 years as a royal but a great player.
That is what balboni’s, Salvys, and Bo Jackson’s numbers could have looked like if they would just lay off swinging at so many balls.
If you could get a guy like that in MLB to do that then you are in the wrong field because you could make millions upon millions.
You make it sound so easy, lol.
Give Gallo a call. He is still young enough. 35 HR .280 BA and a good eye will be worth 30 million a year next year for a four year deal.
Good point.
Stargell was my other favorite besides Brett and I remember him getting criticized a lot because he struck out so much. Now his strikeout totals don’t seem too bad but of course with a ops+ of 147 he was on a different level than the guys you’re talking about like gallo and balboni.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said: @Darin in other words, you are asking Steve Balboni to stop striking out but still hit 31 home runs. You are telling him to be George Brett! That would be great if it was that easy to do.
In the end, he is Balboni with a 112 OPS+ earning a viable spot in the batting order on a MLB team, regardless how many times he did strike out, because he skill set was still productive enough, and he, nor any hitter like him, belong in a softball league.
Why not flip that and tell the guys who have an ops+ of 91 to stop grounding out to second, start getting on base more, and hit more home runs.
That is a great idea. "Hey Buckner, nice ground out to second, but next time I want you to hit that ball over the fence."
Yes I think balboni could still hit 31 dingers with 66 strikeouts compared to 166. He swung at a lot of bad pitches off the plate which if he connected wouldn’t have been a hr anyway.
Look at John Mayberry’s stats with the royals to see what balboni or even Salvy could have been(I mention Salvy because he’s never seen a pitch he didn’t like). Mayberry had numbers with the royals that should have you and Dallas drooling. Power, high walk rate, good OBP, ops+ of 132. Only 6 years as a royal but a great player.
That is what balboni’s, Salvys, and Bo Jackson’s numbers could have looked like if they would just lay off swinging at so many balls.
If you could get a guy like that in MLB to do that then you are in the wrong field because you could make millions upon millions.
You make it sound so easy, lol.
Give Gallo a call. He is still young enough. 35 HR .280 BA and a good eye will be worth 30 million a year next year for a four year deal.
Good point.
Stargell was my other favorite besides Brett and I remember him getting criticized a lot because he struck out so much. Now his strikeout totals don’t seem too bad but of course with a ops+ of 147 he was on a different level than the guys you’re talking about like gallo and balboni.
Absolutely Stargell was a legit HOF. Gallo and Balboni well, you are missing point of the thread.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said: @Darin in other words, you are asking Steve Balboni to stop striking out but still hit 31 home runs. You are telling him to be George Brett! That would be great if it was that easy to do.
In the end, he is Balboni with a 112 OPS+ earning a viable spot in the batting order on a MLB team, regardless how many times he did strike out, because he skill set was still productive enough, and he, nor any hitter like him, belong in a softball league.
Why not flip that and tell the guys who have an ops+ of 91 to stop grounding out to second, start getting on base more, and hit more home runs.
That is a great idea. "Hey Buckner, nice ground out to second, but next time I want you to hit that ball over the fence."
Yes I think balboni could still hit 31 dingers with 66 strikeouts compared to 166. He swung at a lot of bad pitches off the plate which if he connected wouldn’t have been a hr anyway.
Look at John Mayberry’s stats with the royals to see what balboni or even Salvy could have been(I mention Salvy because he’s never seen a pitch he didn’t like). Mayberry had numbers with the royals that should have you and Dallas drooling. Power, high walk rate, good OBP, ops+ of 132. Only 6 years as a royal but a great player.
That is what balboni’s, Salvys, and Bo Jackson’s numbers could have looked like if they would just lay off swinging at so many balls.
If you could get a guy like that in MLB to do that then you are in the wrong field because you could make millions upon millions.
You make it sound so easy, lol.
Give Gallo a call. He is still young enough. 35 HR .280 BA and a good eye will be worth 30 million a year next year for a four year deal.
Good point.
Stargell was my other favorite besides Brett and I remember him getting criticized a lot because he struck out so much. Now his strikeout totals don’t seem too bad but of course with a ops+ of 147 he was on a different level than the guys you’re talking about like gallo and balboni.
Absolutely Stargell was a legit HOF. Gallo and Balboni well, you are missing point of the thread.
I did say good point!
They are too bad at hitting to reduce their k totals.
While he was no Willie Stargell, John Mayberry was a stud. For a four year stretch he was the second or third best hitter in the AL with an OPS+ of 152. And while he had more than decent power, what made him great was that he could tell a ball from a strike, a skill Buckner never mastered in his 22 years in the majors.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
In terms of being "easily replaced" keep in mind that right now that Luis Robert and Eloy are the only current Chicago White Sox players to have a higher lifetime OPS than Gallo.
And if one thinks they can just go to the college level and take their best high average/contact/spray hitters, keep in mind that Nick Madrigal did that better than anyone when he was in college and he sits with a .682 OPS in MLB to Gallo's .787.
All that contact for Madrigal and nothing to show for it...and that is the bottom line.
It is not how many times you strike out or not, it matters how high your OB% is and how high your SLG% is, regardless of the fashion you make your outs.
So, not easily replaced. Of course a 108 OPS+ already says that since that is better than the MLB average.
Nick Madrigal was no where near the best hitter in college, he wasnt even the best hitter on his own team. Hes done the exact same thing in the pros that he did in college, good average 0 power and was wildly over drafted by the cheap White Sox
There are guys a lot better than Gallo who never get mentioned on this forum. Danny Tartabull played 5 years for kc and had a ops+ of 144 for them and lifetime of 133. Yet Bo Jackson played 5 years for kc and is being put in their HOF when his numbers sucked. Ridiculous when tartabull isn’t in and a hack like bo is getting in.
For every gallo or balboni you mention, and btw you’ve now mentioned gallo 353 times, there are just as many better players like Tartabull who never get a mention here so excuse me for not giving gallo or balboni or bo any praise.
@Darin said:
There are guys a lot better than Gallo who never get mentioned on this forum. Danny Tartabull played 5 years for kc and had a ops+ of 144 for them and lifetime of 133. Yet Bo Jackson played 5 years for kc and is being put in their HOF when his numbers sucked. Ridiculous when tartabull isn’t in and a hack like bo is getting in.
For every gallo or balboni you mention, and btw you’ve now mentioned gallo 353 times, there are just as many better players like Tartabull who never get a mention here so excuse me for not giving gallo or balboni or bo any praise.
Tartabull was outstanding. It was a shame his career ended when he was still pretty young. He is too good to be in this thread though. This thread is for players who are perceived to be garbage but are actually not.
I almost made a thread not too long ago about Tartabull and Alvin Davis as two hitters that were excellent hitters but had short careers. Kal Daniels too on a lesser scale(since he was always hurt).
@Basebal21 said:
Nick Madrigal was no where near the best hitter in college, he wasnt even the best hitter on his own team. Hes done the exact same thing in the pros that he did in college, good average 0 power and was wildly over drafted by the cheap White Sox
He does what many fans like...puts the ball in play and sprays it, and hits for a good average.
He definitely was over drafted by the White Sox because that is what they were looking for...a put the ball in play guy, instead of a guy who produces runs(but strikes out a lot).
@Darin said:
There are guys a lot better than Gallo who never get mentioned on this forum. Danny Tartabull played 5 years for kc and had a ops+ of 144 for them and lifetime of 133. Yet Bo Jackson played 5 years for kc and is being put in their HOF when his numbers sucked. Ridiculous when tartabull isn’t in and a hack like bo is getting in.
For every gallo or balboni you mention, and btw you’ve now mentioned gallo 353 times, there are just as many better players like Tartabull who never get a mention here so excuse me for not giving gallo or balboni or bo any praise.
Tartabull was outstanding. It was a shame his career ended when he was still pretty young. He is too good to be in this thread though. This thread is for players who are perceived to be garbage but are actually not.
I almost made a thread not too long ago about Tartabull and Alvin Davis as two hitters that were excellent hitters but had short careers. Kal Daniels too on a lesser scale(since he was always hurt).
Okay understood.
I loved to watch Alvin Davis hit. Yes he’s another guy that you never hear about but was very good.
@Basebal21 said:
Nick Madrigal was no where near the best hitter in college, he wasnt even the best hitter on his own team. Hes done the exact same thing in the pros that he did in college, good average 0 power and was wildly over drafted by the cheap White Sox
He does what many fans like...puts the ball in play and sprays it, and hits for a good average.
He definitely was over drafted by the White Sox because that is what they were looking for...a put the ball in play guy, instead of a guy who produces runs(but strikes out a lot).
They were looking for a middle infielder and just arent a good organization. They have a cheap owner that doesnt spend on players like the As. The As are the only team whose largest contract is under 70 million, the White Sox largest contract is under 80 million. They are the only two teams to have their largest contract under 100 million.
@Basebal21 said:
Nick Madrigal was no where near the best hitter in college, he wasnt even the best hitter on his own team. Hes done the exact same thing in the pros that he did in college, good average 0 power and was wildly over drafted by the cheap White Sox
He does what many fans like...puts the ball in play and sprays it, and hits for a good average.
He definitely was over drafted by the White Sox because that is what they were looking for...a put the ball in play guy, instead of a guy who produces runs(but strikes out a lot).
They were looking for a middle infielder and just arent a good organization. They have a cheap owner that doesnt spend on players like the As. The As are the only team whose largest contract is under 70 million, the White Sox largest contract is under 80 million. They are the only two teams to have their largest contract under 100 million.
Are you related to Gallo?
They are cheap but they also wanted to go with the 'put the ball in play' philosophy.
In the end, Gallo's 108 OPS+ makes him a better hitter than Madrigal, despite that Gallo strikes out at nearly five times the rate that Madrigal does.
I'm not going to say Joey Gallo should be playing softball but I'm sure glad he is no longer a Yankee.
His .195 lifetime batting average was certainly not honed in NY as he hit .160 in 58 games for them in 2021 and somehow hit worse (.159) in 82 games in 2022. He did hit 25 HR in those years for them but that was accompanied by 194 Ks.
All of this is not to say that I could do better
Comments
Yes k’s are extremely negative.
If you strikeout 150 times and next year cut that down to 75, then you’ll be getting on base a lot more.
Can’t believe I have to explain simple math. So what if balboni could have cut down on strikeouts? Doesn’t his production naturally get better?
Stupid list…. Mistlin
K's in relation to contact outs are 98% the same. and that is the point. You are giving too much credit for guys who make contact outs and give too much negative credit to guys who make strike outs.
Buckner is hailed as a HOF hitter by some because he made a lot of contact outs. Balboni and CO. are said to belong in a softball league because they make a lot of strike outs. There are even people who believe Buckner is a better hitter than Reggie Jackson becuase of that thinking.
If Balboni were able to cut down on his strikeouts while also still hitting 31 home runs, then yes his production would increase.
Do you think he could do that? If he or any other HR hitter could do that, then they all would, and then they all wouldn't just be slightly above average. The league would be filled with superstars.
They don't have the skill to do that.
Do you think if Buckner added more strike outs instead of ground outs, and with those extra strike outs came 15 more home runs per year and 35 more BB that he would be more productive??
In the end it is their OPS+ that matters and THAT is what they should be trying to increase!
@Darin in other words, you are asking Steve Balboni to stop striking out but still hit 31 home runs. You are telling him to be George Brett! That would be great if it was that easy to do.
In the end, he is Balboni with a 112 OPS+ earning a viable spot in the batting order on a MLB team, regardless how many times he did strike out, because he skill set was still productive enough, and he, nor any hitter like him, belong in a softball league.
Why not flip that and tell the guys who have an ops+ of 91 to stop grounding out to second, start getting on base more, and hit more home runs.
That is a great idea. "Hey Buckner, nice ground out to second, but next time I want you to hit that ball over the fence."
@Darin so nothing gets lost in my examples, George Brett was the real MVP in the AL that year..just want to make that clear.
Also, I am hyper aware that a strikeout is still slightly worse than a contact out, so Balboni's 112 OPS+ with his amount of strikeouts has a more real value of 110 or 111, but that is the extent of the negative impact of a strikeout compared to a contact out. Problem is, people overblow the strikeout and ignore that 112 OPS+ and relegate Balboni to a softball league.
Yes I think balboni could still hit 31 dingers with 66 strikeouts compared to 166. He swung at a lot of bad pitches off the plate which if he connected wouldn’t have been a hr anyway.
Look at John Mayberry’s stats with the royals to see what balboni or even Salvy could have been(I mention Salvy because he’s never seen a pitch he didn’t like). Mayberry had numbers with the royals that should have you and Dallas drooling. Power, high walk rate, good OBP, ops+ of 132. Only 6 years as a royal but a great player.
That is what balboni’s, Salvys, and Bo Jackson’s numbers could have looked like if they would just lay off swinging at so many balls.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
If you could get a guy like that in MLB to do that then you are in the wrong field because you could make millions upon millions.
You make it sound so easy, lol.
Give Gallo a call. He is still young enough. 35 HR .280 BA and a good eye will be worth 30 million a year next year for a four year deal.
Good point.
Stargell was my other favorite besides Brett and I remember him getting criticized a lot because he struck out so much. Now his strikeout totals don’t seem too bad but of course with a ops+ of 147 he was on a different level than the guys you’re talking about like gallo and balboni.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
Absolutely Stargell was a legit HOF. Gallo and Balboni well, you are missing point of the thread.
I did say good point!
They are too bad at hitting to reduce their k totals.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
While he was no Willie Stargell, John Mayberry was a stud. For a four year stretch he was the second or third best hitter in the AL with an OPS+ of 152. And while he had more than decent power, what made him great was that he could tell a ball from a strike, a skill Buckner never mastered in his 22 years in the majors.
In terms of being "easily replaced" keep in mind that right now that Luis Robert and Eloy are the only current Chicago White Sox players to have a higher lifetime OPS than Gallo.
And if one thinks they can just go to the college level and take their best high average/contact/spray hitters, keep in mind that Nick Madrigal did that better than anyone when he was in college and he sits with a .682 OPS in MLB to Gallo's .787.
All that contact for Madrigal and nothing to show for it...and that is the bottom line.
It is not how many times you strike out or not, it matters how high your OB% is and how high your SLG% is, regardless of the fashion you make your outs.
So, not easily replaced. Of course a 108 OPS+ already says that since that is better than the MLB average.
Nick Madrigal was no where near the best hitter in college, he wasnt even the best hitter on his own team. Hes done the exact same thing in the pros that he did in college, good average 0 power and was wildly over drafted by the cheap White Sox
There are guys a lot better than Gallo who never get mentioned on this forum. Danny Tartabull played 5 years for kc and had a ops+ of 144 for them and lifetime of 133. Yet Bo Jackson played 5 years for kc and is being put in their HOF when his numbers sucked. Ridiculous when tartabull isn’t in and a hack like bo is getting in.
For every gallo or balboni you mention, and btw you’ve now mentioned gallo 353 times, there are just as many better players like Tartabull who never get a mention here so excuse me for not giving gallo or balboni or bo any praise.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
Tartabull was outstanding. It was a shame his career ended when he was still pretty young. He is too good to be in this thread though. This thread is for players who are perceived to be garbage but are actually not.
I almost made a thread not too long ago about Tartabull and Alvin Davis as two hitters that were excellent hitters but had short careers. Kal Daniels too on a lesser scale(since he was always hurt).
He does what many fans like...puts the ball in play and sprays it, and hits for a good average.
He definitely was over drafted by the White Sox because that is what they were looking for...a put the ball in play guy, instead of a guy who produces runs(but strikes out a lot).
Okay understood.
I loved to watch Alvin Davis hit. Yes he’s another guy that you never hear about but was very good.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
They were looking for a middle infielder and just arent a good organization. They have a cheap owner that doesnt spend on players like the As. The As are the only team whose largest contract is under 70 million, the White Sox largest contract is under 80 million. They are the only two teams to have their largest contract under 100 million.
Are you related to Gallo?
They are cheap but they also wanted to go with the 'put the ball in play' philosophy.
In the end, Gallo's 108 OPS+ makes him a better hitter than Madrigal, despite that Gallo strikes out at nearly five times the rate that Madrigal does.
Fun fact?
Joey Gallo pitched a no hitter and then took Greg Maddox’s daughter to prom that night.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I'm not going to say Joey Gallo should be playing softball but I'm sure glad he is no longer a Yankee.
His .195 lifetime batting average was certainly not honed in NY as he hit .160 in 58 games for them in 2021 and somehow hit worse (.159) in 82 games in 2022. He did hit 25 HR in those years for them but that was accompanied by 194 Ks.
All of this is not to say that I could do better