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Did you ever fight over a coin? Newp!

Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 2, 2024 7:18AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Did you ever fight with a friend over bidding on a coin? I’m talking a good old fashioned pcgs forum style dust up. Please tell some stories about fighting over auctions if you’ve got one!

A pretty sweet 1809 O-109b came up on the Heritage bust coinage auction that ended tonight. I’m talking true late die state with big old chunks at the arrowheads. They don’t come around very often, especially not in higher grades.

This coin is a PCGS AU55 with a population of 3 and 2 higher. The higher is a 58 and after that……. A 65. I was in love with the coin and knew it would garner attention. I put in a bid for a standard AU 1809 III edge in 55.

Lo and behold a friend on hits me up and says hey what’re you bidding on? And I tell him how much I like That coin. He says, yeah I want that coin too. We let it simmer For a few weeks. He hits me back up:

“We’re going to have to discuss that.”

To which ensued a back and forth of I WANT IT!! NO I WANT IT! 🤣🤣🤣

Here we are almost 40 and almost 60 fighting and learning how to share in our hobby. Look at us! We get stickers for getting along today. Here’s the coin.


BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.

Comments

  • Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pursuitofliberty said:
    The final conversation might not have even been that friendly! :D

    But you know what, we're Nut Brothers, and so I let him shoot his shot. I mean, there will be other girls, right? Right?! B):p

    And you are is correct, if you'd have lost there woulda been some azz kicking to be had, for sure!! ;)

    You scored ... and I'm happy for you!

    The I want it , no I want it will Have to suffice 😝 and that probably for the best.

    BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,234 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2024 9:50PM

    Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer. Keep your frenemies in the DM's.

    Just kidding. I've definitely had similar discussions in the past lol.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • FrazFraz Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @P0CKETCHANGE said:

    @sellitstore said:
    Do you understand that you are admitting to your criminal activities? I'm aware of at least one prosecution for collusion in a numismatic auction which resulted in some hefty fines for dealers involved. Chances are they will never go after you over this but I'd question the wisdom of declaring your combative and illegal tendencies. And you should at least be aware that what you describe, although somewhat common, is also illegal.

    I’ve witnessed plenty of absurd statements on this forum, but this one takes the cake.

    Maybe there’s a scone left.

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,450 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Love this lol. Never had to fight over a coin (yet ;) ) but its nice that you two communicated and didn't enter a blind bidding war against each other. That could have gotten real expensive and worse fights in the DMs :D

    Young Numismatist/collector
    75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
    instagram.com/klnumismatics

  • erscoloerscolo Posts: 481 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No, nothing but childish with no redeeming qualities.

  • Davidk7Davidk7 Posts: 232 ✭✭✭

    Nice 109b! By the way, you have my Venmo, send me $1000 or I tell on you to Heritage for collusion! >:)

    Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram

  • Davidk7Davidk7 Posts: 232 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2024 7:15AM

    @sellitstore said:
    Do you understand that you are admitting to your criminal activities? I'm aware of at least one prosecution for collusion in a numismatic auction which resulted in some hefty fines for dealers involved. Chances are they will never go after you over this but I'd question the wisdom of declaring your combative and illegal tendencies. And you should at least be aware that what you describe, although somewhat common, is also illegal.

    Did you even read the post before commenting that lol

    Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram

  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 825 ✭✭✭✭

    this kind of communication is essential among serious collectors of the same stuff

  • Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Had I known you were chasing that coin…..well, let’s just say you would be crying in your beer now! 😢 😎

  • lermishlermish Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats, that's a very nice coin! Always nice to get a tough one.

    My niche is small enough that I have to fight with friends fairly regularly also. Never fun and never cheap!

  • scubafuelscubafuel Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There are two ways to do it. The first is “I’ll step aside this time but you owe me next time” and the second is “looks like you’ll need to pretend you don’t know me for this one”.
    Having done both, I highly recommend the second option. Much cleaner.

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,952 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2024 8:42AM

    If I want a coin, then I’m going after it. I don’t care who else challenges me. May the best man win and no hard feelings.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,970 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You bust half nuts crack me up! Making the hobby fun. Makes me wish I collected in the same circles.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerfan said:
    If I want a coin, then I’m going after it. I don’t care who else challenges me. May the best man win and no hard feelings.

    It just came down to a while back there was a coin we both really wanted and I said go for it and he did the same for me this time for this coin I really wanted.

    BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,587 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I dunno. Those arrow chunks are very cool. If I’d have known, there may have been another contestant! 😉

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • FrazFraz Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:

    @Walkerfan said:
    If I want a coin, then I’m going after it. I don’t care who else challenges me. May the best man win and no hard feelings.

    Thank goodness, nobody's interested in my dreck!

    Translation: I wish to hell that my dreck were as interesting.

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,649 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Fraz said:

    @DisneyFan said:

    @Walkerfan said:
    If I want a coin, then I’m going after it. I don’t care who else challenges me. May the best man win and no hard feelings.

    Thank goodness, nobody's interested in my dreck!

    Translation: I wish to hell that my dreck were as interesting.

    Only after I am finish.

  • BustDMsBustDMs Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bikergeek said:
    Todd is almost 60???? Holy cow, that dude acts like a 14-year-old!

    LOLOL!

    @Pnies20 @pursuitofliberty

    Really?

    He had a hard time keeping up with me. I thought the geezer was pushing 80…..😚

    Q: When does a collector become a numismatist?



    A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.



    A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,587 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pleez! Hole, find shovel, find OP.

    No one is advocating collusion on this thread. These are two collector friends who participated in the auction and didn't limit anyone else from bidding. There is no victim here.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • lermishlermish Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sellitstore said:
    The criminal prosecution that I described is a fact. The story has been published and I was there. Those who questioned my statement should have done a bit a research before expressing their misguided opinions. I'm dealing in facts. See below link.
    https://justice.gov/archive/atr/public/press_releases/1995/212016.htm

    LOL? Nothing to laugh about if you were one of the half dozen or so that ended up with hefty fine. $50,000, if I each for a few of the defendants, if I recall correctly. I certainly wouldn't be laughing if I were charged and fined. Yes, numismatic dealers have been prosecuted for auction collusion and paid big fines, even if you haven't heard about it. Yeah, I've got a few numismatic stories that I'll bet you haven't heard here before.

    Do you want bidders colluding when your collection is sold? I certainly don't. It's illegal, immoral and unfair to the consignor. Nothing to be proud of, that's for certain. And, no Heritage doesn't want any numismatic collusion prosecutions (or collusion itself) but sometimes the DA has different ideas. Especially when the target is a high profile Christies.

    How do you explain this DOJ prosecution? Use the Google machine if you want to know more. Don't take my word for it. I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on auction collusion and just what constitutes collusion. But let's hear why you think collusion is OK but against the law anyway. I'm always open to hearing the other side-the positive side of collusion. Oh yeah, you can save money.

    What about the other side where the consignor and auction house allegedly misrepresented the lots and defrauded the bidder?

    https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/806/1094/1747659/

    I'm not an attorney so I am not going to spend my day reading case law but this continues to be an absurd position. One half of a 30+yr old complaint? Do you need any help clutching your pearls?

  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,469 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2024 11:23AM

    OK. perhaps we need a new thread on this subject. We are getting off topic and most of you appear to be unaware that coin dealers are in fact prosecuted for auction collusion. Look for my new thread. You'll learn things that I'll bet you didn't know before.
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1102342/is-auction-collusion-ok-and-just-what-constitutes-auction-collusion#latest

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Too bad this is doomed (maybe) to be the next drama thread... I was pretty excited to see an 09-109b thread!

    Todd knows I've been on the hunt.. its really the only one on my list currently....
    Thankfully, I don't collect AU's anymore, or id have been in the mix here as well 🤯

  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 825 ✭✭✭✭

    @sellitstore said:
    The criminal prosecution that I described is a fact. The story has been published and I was there. Those who questioned my statement should have done a bit a research before expressing their misguided opinions. I'm dealing in facts. See below link.
    https://justice.gov/archive/atr/public/press_releases/1995/212016.htm

    LOL? Nothing to laugh about if you were one of the half dozen or so that ended up with hefty fine. $50,000, if I each for a few of the defendants, if I recall correctly. I certainly wouldn't be laughing if I were charged and fined. Yes, numismatic dealers have been prosecuted for auction collusion and paid big fines, even if you haven't heard about it. Yeah, I've got a few numismatic stories that I'll bet you haven't heard here before.

    Do you want bidders colluding when your collection is sold? I certainly don't. It's illegal, immoral and unfair to the consignor. Nothing to be proud of, that's for certain. And, no Heritage doesn't want any numismatic collusion prosecutions (or collusion itself) but sometimes the DA has different ideas. Especially when the target is a high profile Christies.

    How do you explain this DOJ prosecution? Use the Google machine if you want to know more. Don't take my word for it. I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on auction collusion and just what constitutes collusion. But let's hear why you think collusion is OK but against the law anyway. I'm always open to hearing the other side-the positive side of collusion. Oh yeah, you can save money.

    I feel like you need a big hug, coin friend. I wonder where the line is, but I don't think it's crossed when two collecting friends agree not to fight over coins. The circumstances of this 30+ year old case involved millions of dollars in bids, multiple co-conspirators, and an ugly civil fraud case by the bidders against the auction house, which I imagine might have led to the criminal prosecution. https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/806/1094/1747659/ Has there been anything more recent, or more on point?

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,469 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think so, unless that's where you take it.

    I've started a new thread on auction collusion rather than hijack this thread. If nobody there wants to discuss the subject, that's fine, too.

    There's a fine line between agreement and deciding not to bid and friends or not doesn't make any difference as far as the law goes. And numismatic "friends" have ended up paying dearly for not understanding that, as absurd as that may sound.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Glad yall are still compadres, and nice looking Bust Half.

    It's all about what the people want...

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,469 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No reason to be obnoxious about it.

    I was trying to discuss auction collusion, not enforce it. But you seem to want to make me the police here. I don't get nor care much about fighting over coins. It seems like an odd subject from someone who likes to fight and collude, so I commented on the collusion aspect. Now I've moved the collusion discussion over to another thread. You are welcome to come there and comment or I can keep coming back and commenting here, if you prefer.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jayPem said:
    Too bad this is doomed (maybe) to be the next drama thread... I was pretty excited to see an 09-109b thread!

    Todd knows I've been on the hunt.. its really the only one on my list currently....
    Thankfully, I don't collect AU's anymore, or id have been in the mix here as well 🤯

    Stacks has one in 45 coming up. I don’t think it’s quite as late as mine.

    BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.

  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,035 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The last fight I got into over a coin, I won like the Black Knight.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BustDMs said:

    @Bikergeek said:
    Todd is almost 60???? Holy cow, that dude acts like a 14-year-old!

    LOLOL!

    @Pnies20 @pursuitofliberty

    Really?

    He had a hard time keeping up with me. I thought the geezer was pushing 80…..😚

    .
    Hey Brad, didn't you go home by yourself the last time we hung out together?

    Just sayin' :*


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pursuitofliberty said:

    @BustDMs said:

    @Bikergeek said:
    Todd is almost 60???? Holy cow, that dude acts like a 14-year-old!

    LOLOL!

    @Pnies20 @pursuitofliberty

    Really?

    He had a hard time keeping up with me. I thought the geezer was pushing 80…..😚

    .
    Hey Brad, didn't you go home by yourself the last time we hung out together?

    Just sayin' :*

    Oh wow

    BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.

  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pnies20 said:

    @jayPem said:
    Too bad this is doomed (maybe) to be the next drama thread... I was pretty excited to see an 09-109b thread!

    Todd knows I've been on the hunt.. its really the only one on my list currently....
    Thankfully, I don't collect AU's anymore, or id have been in the mix here as well 🤯

    Stacks has one in 45 coming up. I don’t think it’s quite as late as mine.

    Excellent! Now I just need to find someone to duke it out with...
    Todd?

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,649 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Before I got back into collecting coins I collected stamps for years. I would attend a stamp auction four times a year and often I would be bidding against a buyers' agent. We would sit next to each other in the front of the room. Many times there was an aisle between us. We must have been doing this for 20 years.

    In 1998, a block of four of the $3 Columbian was up for auction. The Colombian 1 cent through $5 set is the highlight of any U.S. Stamp collection. This was a special stamp to begin and then it was a very fine centered, never hinged block of four! The auctioneer knew of my interest and assured me this was the real thing.

    It was way beyond my budget; but, I just had to have it. I'm guessing it was valued at $8,750 back then and that was considered a lot of money for stamps. The auction stated off with a reasonable number and I thought, "Oh, the agent is going to beat me on it!" We went back and forth a few times, just the two of us. Then he got up and walked away. "Oh boy, I thought, it's all mine!" So I bid and somebody in the back started bidding. I thought, I'm going get this one! I'll explain it to the wife later. So I bid. And again. Since the agent was out, I thought nobody will outbid me on this one. I can do it. The last bid from the back was $9,000 and I thought I had to stop.

    Later I found out the agent had been bidding against me from the back of the room. If I had known that, I would dropped out much earlier.

    At the next auction a nice Fine - Very Fine, lightly hinged $4 Columbian was up for auction. The opening bid was reasonable and I quickly got it!

    Then at the next auction I mentioned to the auctioneer how lucky I was and the auctioneer told me the agent decided he didn't want to bid against me again and let me have it.

  • Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jayPem said:

    @Pnies20 said:

    @jayPem said:
    Too bad this is doomed (maybe) to be the next drama thread... I was pretty excited to see an 09-109b thread!

    Todd knows I've been on the hunt.. its really the only one on my list currently....
    Thankfully, I don't collect AU's anymore, or id have been in the mix here as well 🤯

    Stacks has one in 45 coming up. I don’t think it’s quite as late as mine.

    Excellent! Now I just need to find someone to duke it out with...
    Todd?

    Well we all know about you wanting it now. We all have to bid on it sorry 😝

    BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.

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