@Walkerguy21D said: I’ve also heard that CACG is not obligated to cross any and all P and N CAC coins. They can decline to cross them but the majority will certainly cross.
I hadn’t heard this, I assumed but perhaps incorrectly that these were all eligible for CACG (Legacy) holders?
This is incorrect. All previously CAC stickered coins are GUARANTEED to cross at the same whole grade or higher at CACG.
I think that guarantee only applies to coins that were stickered before the cutoff date. I’ll have to look it up but I think it is somewhere between May and June 2023.
The cutoff date for Legacy crossovers is June 5, 2023. Any coin stickered after that date won’t be guaranteed to receive the same grade on the PCGS or NGC slab.
INCORRECT.. ANY and ALL coins with a sticker are guaranteed to cross at CACG at the same whole grade or higher irregardless of when they were stickered. The June 5 cut-off is simply the cut-off date for the coin being holdered as a Legacy coin. The cross guarantee still applies.
@U1chicago said: @CascadeChris is the below statement you posted still true?
And are there "C" coins in CACG slabs that represent the lower tier of the grade?
CACG has gone on record as saying they don’t want low-end coins in their holders. And as a result, if they feel that a coin is of C-quality, they’ll grade it the next grade lower and add a +. So, in theory, at least, a 65-C coin will be graded 64+.
The problem I see with this is that inevitably, some coins of each grade are better/worse than others. So, for example, if you look at enough MS65 coins (supposedly of A or B quality) on a relative basis, some will appear to be high-end, others, mid-range and still others, low end. And that will be the case even, if as a group, the coins are generally superior to other MS 65 groups graded by other companies.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@U1chicago said: @CascadeChris is the below statement you posted still true?
And are there "C" coins in CACG slabs that represent the lower tier of the grade?
CACG has gone on record as saying they don’t want low-end coins in their holders. And as a result, if they feel that a coin is of C-quality, they’ll grade it the next grade lower and add a +. So, in theory, at least, a 65-C coin will be graded 64+.
The problem I see with this is that inevitably, some coins of each grade are better/worse than others. So, for example, if you look at enough MS65 coins (supposedly of A or B quality) on a relative basis, some will appear to be high-end, others, mid-range and still others, low end. And that will be the case even, if as a group, the coins are generally superior to other MS 65 groups graded by other companies.
Which is probably the major reason for grade inflation. Eventually, you want to reward the better coins and they move up. But then the upper range has lower and coins in it, so they move up, and so on, and so on, and so on...
The only solution is 1000 point grading scale or just learning to live with the range.
@U1chicago said: @CascadeChris is the below statement you posted still true?
And are there "C" coins in CACG slabs that represent the lower tier of the grade?
CACG has gone on record as saying they don’t want low-end coins in their holders. And as a result, if they feel that a coin is of C-quality, they’ll grade it the next grade lower and add a +. So, in theory, at least, a 65-C coin will be graded 64+.
The problem I see with this is that inevitably, some coins of each grade are better/worse than others. So, for example, if you look at enough MS65 coins (supposedly of A or B quality) on a relative basis, some will appear to be high-end, others, mid-range and still others, low end. And that will be the case even, if as a group, the coins are generally superior to other MS 65 groups graded by other companies.
Which is probably the major reason for grade inflation. Eventually, you want to reward the better coins and they move up. But then the upper range has lower and coins in it, so they move up, and so on, and so on, and so on...
The only solution is 1000 point grading scale or just learning to live with the range.
😮🫢 I’d much prefer the latter solution to the former!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@U1chicago said: @CascadeChris is the below statement you posted still true?
And are there "C" coins in CACG slabs that represent the lower tier of the grade?
CACG has gone on record as saying they don’t want low-end coins in their holders. And as a result, if they feel that a coin is of C-quality, they’ll grade it the next grade lower and add a +. So, in theory, at least, a 65-C coin will be graded 64+.
The problem I see with this is that inevitably, some coins of each grade are better/worse than others. So, for example, if you look at enough MS65 coins (supposedly of A or B quality) on a relative basis, some will appear to be high-end, others, mid-range and still others, low end. And that will be the case even, if as a group, the coins are generally superior to other MS 65 groups graded by other companies.
Which is probably the major reason for grade inflation. Eventually, you want to reward the better coins and they move up. But then the upper range has lower and coins in it, so they move up, and so on, and so on, and so on...
The only solution is 1000 point grading scale or just learning to live with the range.
😮🫢 I’d much prefer the latter solution to the former!
It sometimes feel to me like people prefer the former. We've got + and star and PQ and FS and FH and stickers. People want to elevate their coins above the rest of the range. It's kind of silly since no two coins are ever going to be identical. There will always be a range.
@U1chicago said: @CascadeChris is the below statement you posted still true?
And are there "C" coins in CACG slabs that represent the lower tier of the grade?
CACG has gone on record as saying they don’t want low-end coins in their holders. And as a result, if they feel that a coin is of C-quality, they’ll grade it the next grade lower and add a +. So, in theory, at least, a 65-C coin will be graded 64+.
The problem I see with this is that inevitably, some coins of each grade are better/worse than others. So, for example, if you look at enough MS65 coins (supposedly of A or B quality) on a relative basis, some will appear to be high-end, others, mid-range and still others, low end. And that will be the case even, if as a group, the coins are generally superior to other MS 65 groups graded by other companies.
A person that works at CACG said that C coins are found in CACG holders in that comment I copied. So a 65C isn’t automatically a 64+ or lower, it can be a 65 CACG. That means that CAC green (only A and B level coins) does not equal a CACG (which can have a C coin).
@U1chicago said: @CascadeChris is the below statement you posted still true?
And are there "C" coins in CACG slabs that represent the lower tier of the grade?
CACG has gone on record as saying they don’t want low-end coins in their holders. And as a result, if they feel that a coin is of C-quality, they’ll grade it the next grade lower and add a +. So, in theory, at least, a 65-C coin will be graded 64+.
The problem I see with this is that inevitably, some coins of each grade are better/worse than others. So, for example, if you look at enough MS65 coins (supposedly of A or B quality) on a relative basis, some will appear to be high-end, others, mid-range and still others, low end. And that will be the case even, if as a group, the coins are generally superior to other MS 65 groups graded by other companies.
A person that works at CACG said that C coins are found in CACG holders in that comment I copied. So a 65C isn’t automatically a 64+ or lower, it can be a 65 CACG. That means that CAC green (only A and B level coins) does not equal a CACG (which can have a C coin).
If thats the case, it appears that there might have been inconsistent statements regarding their policy.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think the whole ABC thing is overblown. My read is that CACG will try to grade as accurately as possible. Period. Fresh start as it were. It’s not worth our time to speculate as to what a coin that didn’t pass with CAC will grade or what a coin that did pass will grade. We know that the CAC team has passed formerly no pass coins upon reevaluation. And certainly there will be no somewhat automatic transition from what might have been an ABorC to anything. How many times must we be reminded that grading is subjective? Patterns will emerge over time which may be useful to speculative types, but for now - chill.
What kind of offers they getting off the bourse CACG vs stickered material? Jimmy offers 10 pct behind CDN Cac bid on CACG, 20 pct back of CAC bid on the stickered. Cash Money. When they see all the green Bens….He recently consumated deal of 32 mixed pieces awhile back. Tough time of year - People need money for food / tax bill. About Half have already been retailed around CDN CPG retail MV. He flipped me a couple of CACG at recent show - bid plus 5 pct.
@shish said:
"From what I have heard, one should not expect the same grade from CAC and CACG on a raw coin."
CAC does not grade raw coins so I don't understand what you're trying to say.
If CAC puts a green bean sticker on the slab, the grade on the label is also the CAC grade.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If you take a sample from a normal population - let's say that +1 standard deviation and above (16%) are the A coins and -1 SD are the C coins (also 16%) with B being -1>grade<+1 (68%)...
You expect that sample to be itself a normal distribution. At least if you repeat the sampling several times. (Funny thing about a sample, it might be abnormal and still be a valid properly constructed sample)
If you take your sample only from the A-B coins
That sample itself will have a normal distribution
The MEAN of the sample will be higher than the MEAN of the original population
Now compute the Standard Deviation of the sample and you will find
Some of the original population "A" coins will be "B" in the sample
Some of the original population "B" coins will be "C" in the sample
Note: Yes we are assuming that the coin's ACTUAL grade is a real number and that it can be perfectly and consistently assigned. And I know which orifice that assumption comes out of when dealing with coin grading. But the basic concept isn't invalid even if you can't apply it to a single coin.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@Walkerguy21D said: I’ve also heard that CACG is not obligated to cross any and all P and N CAC coins. They can decline to cross them but the majority will certainly cross.
I hadn’t heard this, I assumed but perhaps incorrectly that these were all eligible for CACG (Legacy) holders?
This is incorrect. All previously CAC stickered coins are GUARANTEED to cross at the same whole grade or higher at CACG.
I think that guarantee only applies to coins that were stickered before the cutoff date. I’ll have to look it up but I think it is somewhere between May and June 2023.
The cutoff date for Legacy crossovers is June 5, 2023. Any coin stickered after that date won’t be guaranteed to receive the same grade on the PCGS or NGC slab.
INCORRECT.. ANY and ALL coins with a sticker are guaranteed to cross at CACG at the same whole grade or higher irregardless of when they were stickered. The June 5 cut-off is simply the cut-off date for the coin being holdered as a Legacy coin. The cross guarantee still applies.
Thank you for the clarification. Since that does seem to be the case, why a cutoff date? Is having the L more desirable?
I do have a question on the CAC/CACG policy concerning Legacy coins ( stickered before June 5, 2023). In one of the emails received we were told that no crossed Legacy coin receiving a plus will be designated a Legacy coin
“Submitters will have the ability to cross a PCGS/NGC coin for a plus only on our new submission forms. Coins stickered between November 2007 and June 5, 2023, and crossed to CAC Grading will have a Legacy designation “-L” after the serial number. However, if this Legacy coin earns a plus in Virginia Beach, it will NOT be designated as a legacy coin. This is a different grading event with a different team of finalizers, as stated earlier. So, a Legacy coin can NEVER have a plus designation. The June 5th cutoff date for the Legacy designation is there to avoid gamification.”
I have an 1855 Large Cent, which crossed from a CAC stickered PCGS MS65BN holder to a CACG MS65+BN holder. The insert does designate this as a Legacy coin. Was the policy changed?
The problem I see with this is that inevitably, some coins of each grade are better/worse than others. So, for example, if you look at enough MS65 coins (supposedly of A or B quality) on a relative basis, some will appear to be high-end, others, mid-range and still others, low end. And that will be the case even, if as a group, the coins are generally superior to other MS 65 groups graded by other companies.
A person that works at CACG said that C coins are found in CACG holders in that comment I copied. So a 65C isn’t automatically a 64+ or lower, it can be a 65 CACG. That means that CAC green (only A and B level coins) does not equal a CACG (which can have a C coin).
If thats the case, it appears that there might have been inconsistent statements regarding their policy.
The quote being referred to was:
A JA parlance "C" coin -ms65 in that example- would not automatically top out at 64/64+ at CACG as CACG uses the whole grade range whereas CAC Stickering uses only the "A" & "B" range. So if this generic example ms65 coin was assessed by the CACG graders as a 65.1 or 65.2 it would get a grade of ms65. If they assess it as a 64.6 or 64.9 to their standards then it would get that ms64/64+ grade.
I read the phrase "A JA parlance" as a JA interpretation, not as "A person that works at CACG."
The problem I see with this is that inevitably, some coins of each grade are better/worse than others. So, for example, if you look at enough MS65 coins (supposedly of A or B quality) on a relative basis, some will appear to be high-end, others, mid-range and still others, low end. And that will be the case even, if as a group, the coins are generally superior to other MS 65 groups graded by other companies.
A person that works at CACG said that C coins are found in CACG holders in that comment I copied. So a 65C isn’t automatically a 64+ or lower, it can be a 65 CACG. That means that CAC green (only A and B level coins) does not equal a CACG (which can have a C coin).
If thats the case, it appears that there might have been inconsistent statements regarding their policy.
The quote being referred to was:
A JA parlance "C" coin -ms65 in that example- would not automatically top out at 64/64+ at CACG as CACG uses the whole grade range whereas CAC Stickering uses only the "A" & "B" range. So if this generic example ms65 coin was assessed by the CACG graders as a 65.1 or 65.2 it would get a grade of ms65. If they assess it as a 64.6 or 64.9 to their standards then it would get that ms64/64+ grade.
I read the phrase "A JA parlance" as a JA interpretation, not as "A person that works at CACG."
Thank you and if that’s the case, I think it’s the right thing to do. That said, it seems to run contrary to posts by CAC in the midst of a long discussion and debate about C quality coins being downgraded by CACG.
I’m now going to excuse myself from this discussion, as I think PCGS has been very understanding about all of this CAC/CACG talk. And I don’t want to abuse their tolerance.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Walkerguy21D said: I’ve also heard that CACG is not obligated to cross any and all P and N CAC coins. They can decline to cross them but the majority will certainly cross.
I hadn’t heard this, I assumed but perhaps incorrectly that these were all eligible for CACG (Legacy) holders?
This is incorrect. All previously CAC stickered coins are GUARANTEED to cross at the same whole grade or higher at CACG.
I think that guarantee only applies to coins that were stickered before the cutoff date. I’ll have to look it up but I think it is somewhere between May and June 2023.
The cutoff date for Legacy crossovers is June 5, 2023. Any coin stickered after that date won’t be guaranteed to receive the same grade on the PCGS or NGC slab.
INCORRECT.. ANY and ALL coins with a sticker are guaranteed to cross at CACG at the same whole grade or higher irregardless of when they were stickered. The June 5 cut-off is simply the cut-off date for the coin being holdered as a Legacy coin. The cross guarantee still applies.
Thank you for the clarification. Since that does seem to be the case, why a cutoff date? Is having the L more desirable?
I do have a question on the CAC/CACG policy concerning Legacy coins ( stickered before June 5, 2023). In one of the emails received we were told that no crossed Legacy coin receiving a plus will be designated a Legacy coin
“Submitters will have the ability to cross a PCGS/NGC coin for a plus only on our new submission forms. Coins stickered between November 2007 and June 5, 2023, and crossed to CAC Grading will have a Legacy designation “-L” after the serial number. However, if this Legacy coin earns a plus in Virginia Beach, it will NOT be designated as a legacy coin. This is a different grading event with a different team of finalizers, as stated earlier. So, a Legacy coin can NEVER have a plus designation. The June 5th cutoff date for the Legacy designation is there to avoid gamification.”
I have an 1855 Large Cent, which crossed from a CAC stickered PCGS MS65BN holder to a CACG MS65+BN holder. The insert does designate this as a Legacy coin. Was the policy changed?
>
I see that policy was changed after feedback from members was taken into consideration.
Our new policy is as follows:
All coins stickered during the “Legacy” period from November 2007-Jun 5th 2023 will earn a “Legacy” designation whether or not they earn a “Plus.” Gold-stickered coins will also be eligible for “Legacy” designations with no ceiling on the grade at CAC Grading.
CACG will grade coins in Virginia Beach, Va. However, if you want to submit the graded coin for stickering, you have to send it to another location at Bedminster, NJ.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
So, not sure if I am more knowledgeable or more confused after all this “clarification”, but here is my first CACG purchase…. Equivalent to a Green Bean? Not for sure, but it sure is nice!!!
@Moparmonster said:
There has been talk though that N CAC and P CAC have been verified by two services and they are both in agreement on the grade so they could be more valuable to a person who wants to have their coin approved by two leading coin grading companies.
This actually makes the most sense to me. It’d be like if P stickered N slabs, and N stickered P slabs. Surely a collector would feel significantly more confident if both P and N agreed. I’m kind of surprised that neither company went this route when CAC was stickering. I think it would be a huge money maker even if they started doing it now.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
@Moparmonster said:
There has been talk though that N CAC and P CAC have been verified by two services and they are both in agreement on the grade so they could be more valuable to a person who wants to have their coin approved by two leading coin grading companies.
This actually makes the most sense to me. It’d be like if P stickered N slabs, and N stickered P slabs. Surely a collector would feel significantly more confident if both P and N agreed. I’m kind of surprised that neither company went this route when CAC was stickering. I think it would be a huge money maker even if they started doing it now.
If a PCGS slab had an NGC sticker but CAC won't sticker it, then you could sing "two out of three ain't bad".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@MWallace said: @Leeroybrown I have wondered the same thing. I wondered if the green bean on their label was the same as a sticker on NGC and PCGS, i.e. the coin is what they call an "A" coin. Thanks for asking.
I do have another question. Will CACG holder a coin that's for example a 65, but a "B" or "C" coin?
According to CAC, they sticker coins they believe to be of both A and B quality for the grade.
I've been thinking about this. My question isn't meant to be negative, just educational for me. So CACG will holder a "B" coin in their holder with the CAC green bean on the label,,,,, but they won't sticker NGC and PCGS "B" coins?
@MFeld said:
According to CAC, they sticker coins they believe to be of both A and B quality for the grade.
I've been thinking about this. My question isn't meant to be negative, just educational for me. So CACG will holder a "B" coin in their holder with the CAC green bean on the label,,,,, but they won't sticker NGC and PCGS "B" coins?
As I understand it, CAC will award a 'green bean' to 'NGC/PCGS' coins that they believe to be:
~ "solid" for the assigned grade (i.e., "B" quality);
~ and, "high-end" for the assigned grade (i.e., "A" quality).
@MWallace said: @Leeroybrown I have wondered the same thing. I wondered if the green bean on their label was the same as a sticker on NGC and PCGS, i.e. the coin is what they call an "A" coin. Thanks for asking.
I do have another question. Will CACG holder a coin that's for example a 65, but a "B" or "C" coin?
According to CAC, they sticker coins they believe to be of both A and B quality for the grade.
I've been thinking about this. My question isn't meant to be negative, just educational for me. So CACG will holder a "B" coin in their holder with the CAC green bean on the label,,,,, but they won't sticker NGC and PCGS "B" coins?
Sure is (CACG) - even has the green bean logo on the slab. Neat - They look super in my bourse room case for shows next to my stack of Bens and (cash paid for coins and currency sign). Show them the green, display some cash, have fun, run to the end zone!
I Just buy CACG anyway in buying any CAC / JA material. Glad I kept my TTR storage boxes.
There is a very nice and active forum over at CAC. Why not ask the question over there? It perplexes me why there are still so many CAC threads here when you can get answers from the “horses mouth” over there.
I think the only way that you could plausibly claim that a CACG coin is the same as a PCGS or NGC coin with a sticker is if those services guaranteed that they'd cross CACG coins back, and CAC guaranteed that they'd re-sticker the former CACG coins. I'm guessing that's not the case, so regardless of current market perceptions, they aren't the same.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
Grading is a point in time and coins can get unattractive tarnish over time. So saying one better than the other generalization CACG vs Stickered is a bunch of bunk. Additionally what I offer on the bourse for either is based on my assessment of its demand, marketability, attractiveness. Additionally the CDN values both the same. Complicated? Not at all.
Beyond that take it up over there.
Yes don’t they just go around and around on this CAC stuff lol?
@Cougar1978 said:
Sure is (CACG) - even has the green bean logo on the slab. Neat - They look super in my bourse room case for shows next to my stack of Bens and (cash paid for coins and currency sign). Show them the green, display some cash, have fun, run to the end zone!
They are very clear this is not a "bean" in the CAC sense, it's just their logo.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Comments
INCORRECT.. ANY and ALL coins with a sticker are guaranteed to cross at CACG at the same whole grade or higher irregardless of when they were stickered. The June 5 cut-off is simply the cut-off date for the coin being holdered as a Legacy coin. The cross guarantee still applies.
CACG has gone on record as saying they don’t want low-end coins in their holders. And as a result, if they feel that a coin is of C-quality, they’ll grade it the next grade lower and add a +. So, in theory, at least, a 65-C coin will be graded 64+.
The problem I see with this is that inevitably, some coins of each grade are better/worse than others. So, for example, if you look at enough MS65 coins (supposedly of A or B quality) on a relative basis, some will appear to be high-end, others, mid-range and still others, low end. And that will be the case even, if as a group, the coins are generally superior to other MS 65 groups graded by other companies.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Which is probably the major reason for grade inflation. Eventually, you want to reward the better coins and they move up. But then the upper range has lower and coins in it, so they move up, and so on, and so on, and so on...
The only solution is 1000 point grading scale or just learning to live with the range.
😮🫢 I’d much prefer the latter solution to the former!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It sometimes feel to me like people prefer the former. We've got + and star and PQ and FS and FH and stickers. People want to elevate their coins above the rest of the range. It's kind of silly since no two coins are ever going to be identical. There will always be a range.
A person that works at CACG said that C coins are found in CACG holders in that comment I copied. So a 65C isn’t automatically a 64+ or lower, it can be a 65 CACG. That means that CAC green (only A and B level coins) does not equal a CACG (which can have a C coin).
If thats the case, it appears that there might have been inconsistent statements regarding their policy.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think the whole ABC thing is overblown. My read is that CACG will try to grade as accurately as possible. Period. Fresh start as it were. It’s not worth our time to speculate as to what a coin that didn’t pass with CAC will grade or what a coin that did pass will grade. We know that the CAC team has passed formerly no pass coins upon reevaluation. And certainly there will be no somewhat automatic transition from what might have been an ABorC to anything. How many times must we be reminded that grading is subjective? Patterns will emerge over time which may be useful to speculative types, but for now - chill.
What kind of offers they getting off the bourse CACG vs stickered material? Jimmy offers 10 pct behind CDN Cac bid on CACG, 20 pct back of CAC bid on the stickered. Cash Money. When they see all the green Bens….He recently consumated deal of 32 mixed pieces awhile back. Tough time of year - People need money for food / tax bill. About Half have already been retailed around CDN CPG retail MV. He flipped me a couple of CACG at recent show - bid plus 5 pct.
"From what I have heard, one should not expect the same grade from CAC and CACG on a raw coin."
CAC does not grade raw coins so I don't understand what you're trying to say.
If CAC puts a green bean sticker on the slab, the grade on the label is also the CAC grade.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Except in the case of a plus, which CAC doesn’t consider.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Basic statistics anyone?
If you take a sample from a normal population - let's say that +1 standard deviation and above (16%) are the A coins and -1 SD are the C coins (also 16%) with B being -1>grade<+1 (68%)...
You expect that sample to be itself a normal distribution. At least if you repeat the sampling several times. (Funny thing about a sample, it might be abnormal and still be a valid properly constructed sample)
If you take your sample only from the A-B coins
Now compute the Standard Deviation of the sample and you will find
Note: Yes we are assuming that the coin's ACTUAL grade is a real number and that it can be perfectly and consistently assigned. And I know which orifice that assumption comes out of when dealing with coin grading. But the basic concept isn't invalid even if you can't apply it to a single coin.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Thank you for the clarification. Since that does seem to be the case, why a cutoff date? Is having the L more desirable?
I do have a question on the CAC/CACG policy concerning Legacy coins ( stickered before June 5, 2023). In one of the emails received we were told that no crossed Legacy coin receiving a plus will be designated a Legacy coin
“Submitters will have the ability to cross a PCGS/NGC coin for a plus only on our new submission forms. Coins stickered between November 2007 and June 5, 2023, and crossed to CAC Grading will have a Legacy designation “-L” after the serial number. However, if this Legacy coin earns a plus in Virginia Beach, it will NOT be designated as a legacy coin. This is a different grading event with a different team of finalizers, as stated earlier. So, a Legacy coin can NEVER have a plus designation. The June 5th cutoff date for the Legacy designation is there to avoid gamification.”
I have an 1855 Large Cent, which crossed from a CAC stickered PCGS MS65BN holder to a CACG MS65+BN holder. The insert does designate this as a Legacy coin. Was the policy changed?
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
The quote being referred to was:
A JA parlance "C" coin -ms65 in that example- would not automatically top out at 64/64+ at CACG as CACG uses the whole grade range whereas CAC Stickering uses only the "A" & "B" range. So if this generic example ms65 coin was assessed by the CACG graders as a 65.1 or 65.2 it would get a grade of ms65. If they assess it as a 64.6 or 64.9 to their standards then it would get that ms64/64+ grade.
I read the phrase "A JA parlance" as a JA interpretation, not as "A person that works at CACG."
Thank you and if that’s the case, I think it’s the right thing to do. That said, it seems to run contrary to posts by CAC in the midst of a long discussion and debate about C quality coins being downgraded by CACG.
I’m now going to excuse myself from this discussion, as I think PCGS has been very understanding about all of this CAC/CACG talk. And I don’t want to abuse their tolerance.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
>
I see that policy was changed after feedback from members was taken into consideration.
Our new policy is as follows:
All coins stickered during the “Legacy” period from November 2007-Jun 5th 2023 will earn a “Legacy” designation whether or not they earn a “Plus.” Gold-stickered coins will also be eligible for “Legacy” designations with no ceiling on the grade at CAC Grading.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I just got a Legacy + coin back. It was a + before as well. I was surprised when I saw the L. I’m keeping the old insert.
you lost me at "Basic"
CACG will grade coins in Virginia Beach, Va. However, if you want to submit the graded coin for stickering, you have to send it to another location at Bedminster, NJ.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
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So, not sure if I am more knowledgeable or more confused after all this “clarification”, but here is my first CACG purchase…. Equivalent to a Green Bean? Not for sure, but it sure is nice!!!
Nice coin! It's equivalent to a green bean sticker at VF30, IMO.
This actually makes the most sense to me. It’d be like if P stickered N slabs, and N stickered P slabs. Surely a collector would feel significantly more confident if both P and N agreed. I’m kind of surprised that neither company went this route when CAC was stickering. I think it would be a huge money maker even if they started doing it now.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
If a PCGS slab had an NGC sticker but CAC won't sticker it, then you could sing "two out of three ain't bad".
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I've been thinking about this. My question isn't meant to be negative, just educational for me. So CACG will holder a "B" coin in their holder with the CAC green bean on the label,,,,, but they won't sticker NGC and PCGS "B" coins?
As I understand it, CAC will award a 'green bean' to 'NGC/PCGS' coins that they believe to be:
~ "solid" for the assigned grade (i.e., "B" quality);
~ and, "high-end" for the assigned grade (i.e., "A" quality).
Reference:
Link: https://help.cacgrading.com/support/solutions/articles/151000075970-cac-stickering-frequently-asked-questions
Further, CAC will award a 'gold bean' to 'NGC/PCGS' coins that they believe "exceed" the assigned grade.
Reference:
Link: https://help.cacgrading.com/support/solutions/articles/151000075970-cac-stickering-frequently-asked-questions
They sticker A and B
Sure is (CACG) - even has the green bean logo on the slab. Neat - They look super in my bourse room case for shows next to my stack of Bens and (cash paid for coins and currency sign). Show them the green, display some cash, have fun, run to the end zone!
I Just buy CACG anyway in buying any CAC / JA material. Glad I kept my TTR storage boxes.
There is a very nice and active forum over at CAC. Why not ask the question over there? It perplexes me why there are still so many CAC threads here when you can get answers from the “horses mouth” over there.
It's all so complicated.
I think the only way that you could plausibly claim that a CACG coin is the same as a PCGS or NGC coin with a sticker is if those services guaranteed that they'd cross CACG coins back, and CAC guaranteed that they'd re-sticker the former CACG coins. I'm guessing that's not the case, so regardless of current market perceptions, they aren't the same.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
Grading is a point in time and coins can get unattractive tarnish over time. So saying one better than the other generalization CACG vs Stickered is a bunch of bunk. Additionally what I offer on the bourse for either is based on my assessment of its demand, marketability, attractiveness. Additionally the CDN values both the same. Complicated? Not at all.
Beyond that take it up over there.
Yes don’t they just go around and around on this CAC stuff lol?
They are very clear this is not a "bean" in the CAC sense, it's just their logo.
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