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I wasn't going to bid in this auction until I saw THIS

renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 28, 2024 6:07PM in U.S. Coin Forum

And I just couldn't help myself:

Oh! and it also came with this:

Comments

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    ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,540 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Only $1.30 to slab a coin in 1910? Prices have sure gone up LOL.

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    HillbillyCollectorHillbillyCollector Posts: 515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very interesting and a great part of the history of this great looking cent!
    Gotta love those prices!😂

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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,083 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Men of honor when that was the coin of the realm.

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    raysrays Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Auction and lot number, please.

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    BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tough way to make a living, 13c at a time...

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
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    WhitWhit Posts: 316 ✭✭✭

    Beautiful. Thank you for posting these glorious pieces of history.
    Whit.

    Whit
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    jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So cool!!

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    ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,540 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is that Henry Chapman, known for the 1921 Chapman proof Morgans?

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    Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow, that is very cool. Nice get. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall

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    jt88jt88 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice

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    RLSnapperRLSnapper Posts: 521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Really cool piece! Great provenance, Well bought...Congrats!

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    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice! That eagle really jumps/flies off that coin! 👍

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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    SIowhandSIowhand Posts: 319 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’d have bought it just for the invoice/receipt. I love that kind of thing.

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    WildIdeaWildIdea Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great buy! Well done sir!!

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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,218 ✭✭✭✭✭

    what did $1.45 buy back then?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is too cool. I love old numismatic correspondence like that. Kraft envelopes attached to PCGS holders make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside 😂

    BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.

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    jacrispiesjacrispies Posts: 717 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can't beat it! Gives depth to the coin with a backstory and pedigree. Congrats on the great buy!

    "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.

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    OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,938 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    what did $1.45 buy back then?

    About 6 uncirculated 1909-S VDB cents.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

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    RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 609 ✭✭✭✭

    I love your purchase. But unfortunately nobody can prove it is out of the sale mentioned. That is not how one proves pedigree just because an old envelope or old receipt is included. Now if in the catalog there is a photo that matches the coin or a written description that matches the coin through a pup then I can see the connection, but as it stands now you bought a cool pattern and a separate original antique receipt from Chapman and that is about it

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    tcollectstcollects Posts: 842 ✭✭✭✭

    it matches up with the auction (page 35), but it's not plated, even so I think all signs point to correct provenance https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/auctionlots?AucCoId=22&AuctionId=510990

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BStrauss3 said:
    Tough way to make a living, 13c at a time...

    The median income in 1910 was $574 a year. In 2023, it was over $60,000. A rough calculation takes that 13 cent commission up to $13.50 in today’s dollars.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RobertScotLover said:
    I love your purchase. But unfortunately nobody can prove it is out of the sale mentioned. That is not how one proves pedigree just because an old envelope or old receipt is included. Now if in the catalog there is a photo that matches the coin or a written description that matches the coin through a pup then I can see the connection, but as it stands now you bought a cool pattern and a separate original antique receipt from Chapman and that is about it

    The old auction catalogues, or more accurately, lists, almost never had pictures. The listings were almost totally cryptic with the denomination, date, mint mark and little else. Tracing a specific coin to a specific sale is impossible. The best I have seen are only collector envelopes and auction or dealer tags.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @renomedphys said:
    And I just couldn't help myself:

    Oh! and it also came with this:

    One thing that irritates me about auction invoices is that they frequently only give the lot number. There is nothing formally printer about what the item is. That leaves you to write it in as was done in this case.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    RLSnapperRLSnapper Posts: 521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So I looked at the link @tcollects provided for the catalogue that lists this coin. If you zoom in you can see a handwritten annotation in red ink of $1.30 that matches the receipt amount that came with this lot. Sure....someone could have matched a different J-168 with the receipt but thar scenario is highly unlikely.
    The provenance of this coin is very solid.....maybe not enough to have the name on the holder but at sale or auction it could be fairly represented as such. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

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    CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,603 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can see how you couldn't resist, especially given the name connection. So glad it's found a proper home with your incredible collection of copper!

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
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    UncleJoeUncleJoe Posts: 2,522 ✭✭✭

    I’m jealous! If I saw that lot, you or I would have paid quite a bit more for it. Congrats!!!

    Joe.

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    redraiderredraider Posts: 126 ✭✭✭✭

    I was eyeing this auction. Congrats on a cool new purchase! Still in need of this and it’s 1854 counterpart.

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    JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice one

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    WinLoseWinWinLoseWin Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭✭✭

    " A dollar forty five for some old penny from 55 years ago? Those coin collectors need there heads examined!" - The public in 1910

    "Don't like it. Would only pay face value." - theoretically Cougar1978 in 2024

    "To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

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    goldengolden Posts: 9,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Super cool!

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    RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 609 ✭✭✭✭

    @RLSnapper said:
    So I looked at the link @tcollects provided for the catalogue that lists this coin. If you zoom in you can see a handwritten annotation in red ink of $1.30 that matches the receipt amount that came with this lot. Sure....someone could have matched a different J-168 with the receipt but thar scenario is highly unlikely.
    The provenance of this coin is very solid.....maybe not enough to have the name on the holder but at sale or auction it could be fairly represented as such. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

    So you don't think dealers ever played games in the past with pedigree info. The catalog says the 1855 was olive in color, this one isn't for one. All one can say is after the fact somebody copied directly from the catalog the price it sold but to say definitively it is the same coin is impossible to do. Its nice the have the catalog and the receipt but nobody can be 100%

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    RLSnapperRLSnapper Posts: 521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RobertScotLover This coin most likely came from the Lambert collection auctioned by Chapman. The receipt looks good but the blue ink used to identify the lot was not contemporaneous. You can tell my the aged look of Chapman's signature versus the fresh look of the blue ink.
    I agree with you it is not 100% and the pedigree should not be placed on the holder. At sale or auction I would describe the lot as " likely" from the Lambert sale and reference the receipt and catalogue.

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    WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,974 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Excellent museum piece!!

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

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    oldabeintxoldabeintx Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m only now adding patterns to my type sets, to illustrate the development of the type. This is a very cool example with great provenance to boot. Well done.

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