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How much does a defective planchet come into play on the outcome of the final grade?

Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 885 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 21, 2024 3:58PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I'm curious. I have a beautiful Morgan with a planchet flaw and I would like to learn about this. I added a better image down below.
Thank you.

Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA

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    mattnissmattniss Posts: 579 ✭✭✭✭

    More often than not it won't straight grade. Obviously depends on the flaw.

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pictures may help. I would guess that it depends on how bad the planchet flaw is.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    lermishlermish Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A minor flaw may or may not hold it back a little. Larger flaw is of course a larger potential problem.

    The planchet flaw on the reverse I would define as bordering on large yet the coin straight graded as a 58, probably due to the attractiveness of the rest of the coin.

    However, this coin is semi-PL, beautiful, and should probably be a 55 but was probably knocked down due to the flaw over the MM.

    So final answer, it can vary and it doesn't seem like there is a definitive answer other than for very large issues.

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    Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 885 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2024 3:56PM

    The field behind liberties head where the phrygian cap turns into a sideways V. It has pock marks that at first glimpse look like hits but they are not. This coin looks better than a 64+ to me but what do I know.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA

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    oldabeintxoldabeintx Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you get into Colonials or Fugios, planchet flaws, often serious, are the norm for many types and don't seem to matter as much as one might think, at least in most circulated grades. Does affect the price though.

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    epcepc Posts: 161 ✭✭✭✭

    This half dime didn't even get a grade. The slab just says it's a defective planchet.

    Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states

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    TimNHTimNH Posts: 127 ✭✭✭

    @oldabeintx said:
    If you get into Colonials or Fugios, planchet flaws, often serious, are the norm for many types and don't seem to matter as much as one might think, at least in most circulated grades. Does affect the price though.

    Here's my Fugio in an old ANACS soap, big flaw on the obverse and seems to have cost me 10 or 15 points -

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    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    @mattniss said:
    More often than not it won't straight grade. Obviously depends on the flaw.

    What TPGS do you work for that will not straight grade a coin with a planchet flaw???

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    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    Are you referring to the gouges from the rims?

    @lermish said:
    A minor flaw may or may not hold it back a little. Larger flaw is of course a larger potential problem.

    The planchet flaw on the reverse I would define as bordering on large yet the coin straight graded as a 58, probably due to the attractiveness of the rest of the coin.

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    lermishlermish Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider3 said:
    Are you referring to the gouges from the rims?

    @lermish said:
    A minor flaw may or may not hold it back a little. Larger flaw is of course a larger potential problem.

    The planchet flaw on the reverse I would define as bordering on large yet the coin straight graded as a 58, probably due to the attractiveness of the rest of the coin.

    I am. Certainly open to your expert opinion but every single person (including several well known and respected dealers) I showed the coin to agreed that they are planchet flaws, not gouges. Not mine anymore regardless, just thought it was an interesting example.

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    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    Those are probably strike thrus from the sawdust used to dry the planchets. When the coins are cleaned or over time, they come off. They are more brown in my image.

    @Morgan13 said:
    The field behind liberties head where the phrygian cap turns into a sideways V. It has pock marks that at first glimpse look like hits but they are not. This coin looks better than a 64+ to me but what do I know.

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    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    @lermish said:

    @Insider3 said:
    Are you referring to the gouges from the rims?

    @lermish said:
    A minor flaw may or may not hold it back a little. Larger flaw is of course a larger potential problem.

    The planchet flaw on the reverse I would define as bordering on large yet the coin straight graded as a 58, probably due to the attractiveness of the rest of the coin.

    I am. Certainly open to your expert opinion but every single person (including several well known and respected dealers) I showed the coin to agreed that they are planchet flaws, not gouges. Not mine anymore regardless, just thought it was an interesting example.

    I'd be a darn fool to question those experts. BTY, there is another planchet flaw on the obverse by the 11'th star.

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    Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 885 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider3 said:
    Those are probably strike thrus from the sawdust used to dry the planchets. When the coins are cleaned or over time, they come off. They are more brown in my image.

    @Morgan13 said:
    The field behind liberties head where the phrygian cap turns into a sideways V. It has pock marks that at first glimpse look like hits but they are not. This coin looks better than a 64+ to me but what do I know.

    That makes perfect sense and I appreciate your information on the sawdust. Makes perfect sense.
    Still leaves the question how much it effects the grade.
    I don't think it should because it's as made like a die crack.
    Then again I am not a grader. Just a collector willing to learn.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA

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    jt88jt88 Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it depends on the coin. I see some get grade some not. This one is au55.

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    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2024 5:31AM

    The bust half is strange. Not sure it is all the same thing/stuff.
    .
    .


    .
    .
    Here is the pcgs video on planchet flaws (the first part of video 0:40 to 2:20) on what they detail grade and words on small is okay and also dependent on location....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzpruoHc3g4

    EDIT:
    Found a few of them. 1902 S with a struck through on reverse at the R in dollar. The second one is graded MS67.




    EDIT:
    and a couple more

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This one graded PCGS VF35. I sweated the grading of this coin as it looks so choice IMO except for the planchet streak on the obverse. It's one of my favorite SLHs.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    lilolme posted: "Here is the pcgs video on planchet flaws (the first part of video 0:40 to 2:20) on what they detail grade and words on small is okay and also dependent on location.... "

    Thanks, I've watched most of the PCGS videos - a few more than once. I recommend them to any collector and you'll know more than some coin dealers! Remember that grading coins is very subjective. Sometimes, scratches, cleaning, gouges, altered surfaces, damage, and repairs don't matter. It depends on the coin and the grader/dealer/collector.

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    RonsandersonRonsanderson Posts: 41 ✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2024 6:12AM

    @lilolme said:
    The bust half is strange. Not sure it is all the same thing/stuff.

    I have to agree that the “something else” here turns out to be actual gouges and not planchet flaws.

    These are post-strike scratches (or gouges, since they are short but deep). The metal is pushed out of the groove and piled up along the edges. The gouge at top left (1) was pushed from right to left. The metal from the right was carried leftward and piled up there. The gouge at the right (2) was different. A rounded narrow object pushed along the coin and displaced the metal equally to the left and right. You can make out the shape of the offending object where it stopped or started in the denticles.

    If these had occurred before the strike, the metal would have still been displaced on the raw planchet just the way it looks here. But then the dies would have hammered down on top of it, flattening these ridges and perhaps pushing them back into the groove. If the pressure was not enough to fully close the groove, you would still see that the edges had been flattened considerably. In some cases you could see a folded-over effect, where the ridged metal was pushed aside into the groove, but the groove had not entirely filled in underneath.

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    brianc1959brianc1959 Posts: 341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PCGS straight-graded this half cent XF-45 despite planchet flaws on both sides:

    However, I personally don't mind the flaws at all, and think the grade is appropriate.

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    1946Hamm1946Hamm Posts: 768 ✭✭✭✭✭



    Have a good day, Gary
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    ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,533 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting placement of the planchet flaw on that 12-S nickel 😆

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