My experience with CMQ

Weiss

@pointfivezero had a thread a few weeks back about his experience with CMQ. Thought I'd send some to see what was what.

Sent 4 pieces that I felt were good. Three were green CAC, one a recent $20 saint that had been an NCI 63/63 that I submitted to NGC where it returned 64.

All four received the CMQ sticker. One that I was hoping would Gold Grif™ (CMQ-X) didn't. One that I thought might Gold Grif™ did.

Overall:
Speed was very good. Less than 4 weeks from the day I shipped to the day they were returned.
Customer service was excellent. Friendly and helpful every step of the way.
Price was fine. Like $20 per coin. But remember, that's having David Hall and Greg Roberts examine and unanimously agree the piece is solid or exceptional. And they will buy your pieces back.

I'll definitely send more pieces. I think their usefulness is slightly more nuanced than CAC. But as CAC phases out stickering, CMQ has strong potential.

For the uninitiated: Green Grif™ means the piece meets Hall & Roberts' rigorous standards. Gold Grif™ is a coin so exceptional that, according to David Hall "Makes you shake your head in wonderment".

My PCGS MS63 OGH 1921 VAM-1H (Satin Proof Dies), CAC and now CMQ-X

divecchia

Congrats on the "Gold Grif". The Peace has some nice detail.

Donato

P0CKETCHANGE

Thanks for the report, and that's a lovely '21 Peace.

I sent a 7 coin submission to CMQ in December. 4 of 7 passed. Two of which were previously rejected by CAC, and two of which are on their way to CAC at the moment.

Only one of the 7 was previously CAC'd, and much to my surprise, that one failed CMQ.

Maywood

@Weiss said: For the uninitiated: Green Grif™ means the piece meets Hall & Roberts' rigorous standards. Gold Grif™ is a coin so exceptional that, according to David Hall "Makes you shake your head in wonderment."

They should add a rainbow sticker and award it as a Good Grief.

johnny9434

love the book as well

Boosibri

Some of the pieces in the upcoming SB auction which stickered are pretty processed. See the 1842 $2.5 in 45 as one example.

Hall seemed to like bright gold and PCGS holdered a lot of processed gold in his time. It’s no wonder so much gold was processed if that’s what the market making service appreciated.

Weiss

@Boosibri said:
Some of the pieces in the upcoming SB auction which stickered are pretty processed. See the 1842 $2.5 in 45 as one example.

Hall seemed to like bright gold and PCGS holdered a lot of processed gold in his time. It’s no wonder so much gold was processed if that’s what the market making service appreciated.

It will be interesting to watch then. A good test about Hall's view of the market.

291fifth

Stickers, stickers and more stickers ...

P0CKETCHANGE

@Boosibri said:
Some of the pieces in the upcoming SB auction which stickered are pretty processed. See the 1842 $2.5 in 45 as one example.

Hall seemed to like bright gold and PCGS holdered a lot of processed gold in his time. It’s no wonder so much gold was processed if that’s what the market making service appreciated.

Is this the one you're referring to? Could you point out what to look for that indicates "processing"? Trying to learn as gold is not my area of expertise.

Weiss

@291fifth said:
Stickers, stickers and more stickers ...

I get it. I really do.

But it's not about a sticker.

Two of the most important numismatists of the last 50 years, the founders of NGC and the founders of PCGS, responsible for arguably the most significant development in numismatics in the last 50 years (TPGs) have both held this 1921 peace dollar and have agreed it is a great example, and are willing to note that, front and center, for everyone to see.

Hall and Albanese won't be around forever.

Here's your chance to have a ball signed by both Babe Ruth and Stan Musial for about $50.

Boosibri

@Weiss said:

@291fifth said:
Stickers, stickers and more stickers ...

I get it. I really do.

But it's not about a sticker.

Two of the most important numismatists of the last 50 years, the founders of NGC and the founders of PCGS, responsible for arguably the most significant development in numismatics in the last 50 years (TPGs) have both held this 1921 peace dollar and have agreed it is a great example, and are willing to note that, front and center, for everyone to see.

Hall and Albanese won't be around forever.

Here's your chance to have a ball signed by both Babe Ruth and Stan Musial for about $50.

Looking at the slab image it just has no life and is looks like a prototypical processed piece. Granted, I've never seen the coin but it just looks fully scrubbed up.

Proofmorgan

@P0CKETCHANGE said:

@Boosibri said:
Some of the pieces in the upcoming SB auction which stickered are pretty processed. See the 1842 $2.5 in 45 as one example.

Hall seemed to like bright gold and PCGS holdered a lot of processed gold in his time. It’s no wonder so much gold was processed if that’s what the market making service appreciated.

Is this the one you're referring to? Could you point out what to look for that indicates "processing"? Trying to learn as gold is not my area of expertise.

Not to jump in, but once you have spent enough time collecting old gold, you can spot "processed" coins from a mile away. "processed" can be described as the surfaces being dipped/altered to enhance and brighten a coin. Untouched gold typical has "skin" or crust from being around almost 200 years (especially early gold). It is not common to see grit in crevices or toning on original gold. CAC historically will not sticker these processed coins unless they are under graded. I too have seen non CAC early gold get the CMQ sticker. The CMQ coins are typically nice for the grade, but are not as stringent as far as originality goes.

Hope this helps! I'll also defer to Brian, who has been collecting original gold for longer than I have.

Boosibri

@Proofmorgan said:

@P0CKETCHANGE said:

@Boosibri said:
Some of the pieces in the upcoming SB auction which stickered are pretty processed. See the 1842 $2.5 in 45 as one example.

Hall seemed to like bright gold and PCGS holdered a lot of processed gold in his time. It’s no wonder so much gold was processed if that’s what the market making service appreciated.

Is this the one you're referring to? Could you point out what to look for that indicates "processing"? Trying to learn as gold is not my area of expertise.

Not to jump in, but once you have spent enough time collecting old gold, you can spot "processed" coins from a mile away. "processed" can be described as the surfaces being dipped/altered to enhance and brighten a coin. Untouched gold typical has "skin" or crust from being around almost 200 years (especially early gold). It is not common to see grit in crevices or toning on original gold. CAC historically will not sticker these processed coins unless they are under graded. I too have seen non CAC early gold get the CMQ sticker. The CMQ coins are typically nice for the grade, but are not as stringent as far as originality goes.

Hope this helps! I'll also defer to Brian, who has been collecting original gold for longer than I have.

Well said

pointfivezero

Thanks for resurrecting this topic, @Weiss.

My initial experience with CMQ was a little bumpy, but I was pleased overall. As for adding market value, my small sample experience was inconclusive. As a reminder, I submitted a gold CAC Texas commemorative in an old fattie holder. I (over)paid $500 for the coin at a local coin show. CMQ awarded it their Gold Grif™:

I listed it on ebay and it sold for $480 before the fees and shipping.

The same year and grade gold CAC rattler without the CMQ-X sticker sold for $504 (with the juice) last year:

Way too early to predict the long term value of the CMQ sticker but my first flip was a loser.

Tim

OnlyGoldIsMoney

@Boosibri said:

@Weiss said:

@291fifth said:
Stickers, stickers and more stickers ...

I get it. I really do.

But it's not about a sticker.

Two of the most important numismatists of the last 50 years, the founders of NGC and the founders of PCGS, responsible for arguably the most significant development in numismatics in the last 50 years (TPGs) have both held this 1921 peace dollar and have agreed it is a great example, and are willing to note that, front and center, for everyone to see.

Hall and Albanese won't be around forever.

Here's your chance to have a ball signed by both Babe Ruth and Stan Musial for about $50.

Looking at the slab image it just has no life and is looks like a prototypical processed piece. Granted, I've never seen the coin but it just looks fully scrubbed up.

Brian, I examined the 1842 in AU55 at the Stacks viewing room today. I agree with your assessment. Eye appeal is lacking - a tired lifeless look. A coin that in my estimation would not pass at CAC. I'd consider it a downgrade to my crusty PCGS XF45 CAC example.

RobertScotLover

Maybe you should check out the silver for sale on Hall's website, pretty darn bright white too for silver imo

david3142

@pointfivezero said:
Thanks for resurrecting this topic, @Weiss.

My initial experience with CMQ was a little bumpy, but I was pleased overall. As for adding market value, my small sample experience was inconclusive. As a reminder, I submitted a gold CAC Texas commemorative in an old fattie holder. I (over)paid $500 for the coin at a local coin show. CMQ awarded it their Gold Grif™:

I listed it on ebay and it sold for $480 before the fees and shipping.

The same year and grade gold CAC rattler without the CMQ-X sticker sold for $504 (with the juice) last year:

Way too early to predict the long term value of the CMQ sticker but my first flip was a loser.

Tim

I would guess that the auction venue mattered more than the extra gold sticker. That looks like a very nice coin.

jerseyben

@david3142 said:

@pointfivezero said:
Thanks for resurrecting this topic, @Weiss.

My initial experience with CMQ was a little bumpy, but I was pleased overall. As for adding market value, my small sample experience was inconclusive. As a reminder, I submitted a gold CAC Texas commemorative in an old fattie holder. I (over)paid $500 for the coin at a local coin show. CMQ awarded it their Gold Grif™:

I listed it on ebay and it sold for $480 before the fees and shipping.

The same year and grade gold CAC rattler without the CMQ-X sticker sold for $504 (with the juice) last year:

Way too early to predict the long term value of the CMQ sticker but my first flip was a loser.

Tim

I would guess that the auction venue mattered more than the extra gold sticker. That looks like a very nice coin.

And the rattler certainly added to the premium here.

BLUEJAYWAY

That 21 is a knockout.

Catbert

I'm sorry, but every time I see someone refer to "Grif" I read "grift". Unhelpful, I know.

skier07

Things may change down the road but IMO a grif adds little to no value today. If a coin has a grif but not a green sticker it suggests that the coin has previously been to NJ. I wouldn’t consign a coin to Stacks without a grif. Even if not the case potential buyers might think the coin flunked in grif land.

jmlanzaf

@david3142 said:

@pointfivezero said:
Thanks for resurrecting this topic, @Weiss.

My initial experience with CMQ was a little bumpy, but I was pleased overall. As for adding market value, my small sample experience was inconclusive. As a reminder, I submitted a gold CAC Texas commemorative in an old fattie holder. I (over)paid $500 for the coin at a local coin show. CMQ awarded it their Gold Grif™:

I listed it on ebay and it sold for $480 before the fees and shipping.

The same year and grade gold CAC rattler without the CMQ-X sticker sold for $504 (with the juice) last year:

Way too early to predict the long term value of the CMQ sticker but my first flip was a loser.

Tim

I would guess that the auction venue mattered more than the extra gold sticker. That looks like a very nice coin.

There's multiple differences. P vs N. Last year vs this year. Different venue.

CircCam

@Catbert said:
I'm sorry, but every time I see someone refer to "Grif" I read "grift". Unhelpful, I know.

It’s ok, every time I read CMQ I read kumquat. 🍊

DelawareDoons

I'll be testing about 20 pieces with them this summer to see how it is.

Thanks for the write up on your experience!

pointfivezero

@skier07 said:
Things may change down the road but IMO a grif adds little to no value today. If a coin has a grif but not a green sticker it suggests that the coin has previously been to NJ. I wouldn’t consign a coin to Stacks without a grif. Even if not the case potential buyers might think the coin flunked in grif land.

To your point, here's a gold grif with no CAC sticker:

Tim

Luxor

@skier07 said:
If a coin has a grif but not a green sticker it suggests that the coin has previously been to NJ.

It actually suggests nothing.

skier07

@Luxor said:

@skier07 said:
If a coin has a grif but not a green sticker it suggests that the coin has previously been to NJ.

It actually suggests nothing.

I can’t imagine too many people sending coins to CMQ before sending them to CAC. If the CMQ brand down the road adds value to a coin things may be different.

Weiss

@skier07 said:

@Luxor said:

@skier07 said:
If a coin has a grif but not a green sticker it suggests that the coin has previously been to NJ.

It actually suggests nothing.

I can’t imagine too many people sending coins to CMQ before sending them to CAC. If the CMQ brand down the road adds value to a coin things may be different.

NCI -> NGC -> CMQ

Green Grif no CAC

DisneyFan

@Luxor said:

@skier07 said:
If a coin has a grif but not a green sticker it suggests that the coin has previously been to NJ.

It actually suggests nothing.

If the coin is for sale, it's unlikely a seller would leave money on the table without first trying to get Hall's AND Albanese's autographs on the slab.

Cougar1978

I have some CACG but no stickered at this time. I cant see paying for more than one sticker service - increases cost.