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Counterfeit: Inherited 1914-D Lincoln Cent

PipestonePetePipestonePete Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭✭✭

Back in January I posted pics of a couple of Lincoln Cents that a friend of mine had inherited. I submitted the coins to PCGS and they determined that the 1914-D is counterfeit. It had received some positive comments when it was posted on the forum. I was somewhat surprised with the determination as the coin appears to show signs of verdigris on the obverse and reverse surfaces.

Comments

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 3,608 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That one would have fooled me.

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,805 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Excellent thread.

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,517 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks real from the pic - did they determine it was an added D? If so, that one is damn good!

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is it just the image or does "E PLURIBUS UNUM" look too large?

  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,661 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Frustrating... I don't think they offer any reasoning either. It sure looks good when you blow up the photos.

  • fastfreddiefastfreddie Posts: 2,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Try ATS and see what they say.

    It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 'D' is too low and tilts up. The 'D' on 1914-D Lincoln cent is always seen level or tilting down slightly.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is the information from the pcgs book. I didn't spend the time to look any closer but might be for others.


    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2024 1:17PM

    @mr1931S said:
    The 'D' is too low and tilts up. The 'D' on 1914-D Lincoln cent is always seen level or tilting down slightly.


    Here's the top photo from PCGS CoinFacts.
    The D is also pretty low on this one.

    As for "tilting up", the entire photo @PipestonePete posted is rotated to tilt up, so it would take some careful "straightening" to check that.


    Here are "straightened" versions of the original photo.
    I rotated the photo to make the bottom of LIBERTY level.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,392 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The inside of the D mintmark should be triangular in shape. I'm not sure if this is an added mintmark or a struck counterfeit using false dies.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,019 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PipestonePete said:
    Back in January I posted pics of a couple of Lincoln Cents that a friend of mine had inherited. I submitted the coins to PCGS and they determined that the 1914-D is counterfeit. It had received some positive comments when it was posted on the forum. I was somewhat surprised with the determination as the coin appears to show signs of verdigris on the obverse and reverse surfaces.

    Why would the presence of verdigris cause you to be surprised by a determination that the coin was counterfeit?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • PipestonePetePipestonePete Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    Why would the presence of verdigris cause you to be surprised by a determination that the coin was counterfeit?

    I assumed it takes a fair amount of time for verdigris to form hence I assumed this coin had to have some age to it. I guess I assumed incorrectly.

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,815 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2024 2:31PM

    Maybe the counterfeiting was done some time ago allowing verdigris to form after improper storage... in any case, that one is very convincing!

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,019 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PipestonePete said:

    @MFeld said:
    Why would the presence of verdigris cause you to be surprised by a determination that the coin was counterfeit?

    I assumed it takes a fair amount of time for verdigris to form hence I assumed this coin had to have some age to it. I guess I assumed incorrectly.

    I don’t know that you were wrong about that because I don’t know when the coin was produced.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • conrad99conrad99 Posts: 345 ✭✭✭

    My sister inherited a spectacular sapphire ring from my grandmother. Can you guess where this is going?

    Yep, she had it appraised and it turned out to be a fake. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing that my grandparents never knew. Probably was replaced during a cleaning or resetting, or they may even have been 'taken' way back when my grandfather bought it for her. (Or maybe she inherited it? I dunno.)

    Anyway this probably doesn't help much but we feel your pain.

  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would like to see Dan comment because that is a good fake.

  • PipestonePetePipestonePete Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2024 3:20PM

    The 1909-S VDB I purchased 40+ years ago that was deemed non-genuine by ANACS in 1982..

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,933 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I seem to recall that high quality struck counterfeits of the 1914-D and 1909-S VDB date from the 1960s. The verdigris you observed could have had 60 years to form.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • GreenstangGreenstang Posts: 794 ✭✭✭✭

    The 1909S is fairly easy to tell it is a counterfeit.
    Look at the period after the D, it is in the wrong position,
    it should closer to centre between the D and B

  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2024 3:40PM

    @PerryHall said:
    The inside of the D mintmark should be triangular in shape. I'm not sure if this is an added mintmark or a struck counterfeit using false dies.

    I agree with struck counterfeit. Nothing looks altered and the hair details and overall strike look off... a bit shallow.
    Edit for typo and clarity


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • USMC_6115USMC_6115 Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I bought this one lots of years ago for a hole filler... hopefully it's real :|

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,815 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This should be something that AI could be applied to... superimposing image files and coming up with a percent likelihood.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • AotearoaAotearoa Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coincidentally, this just popped up on our local version of eBay. The shape of the mint mark looks funky to me. What do you think? (I’m judging that this a valid thread extension. Apologies if you deem otherwise.)

    Smitten with DBLCs.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PipestonePete can you take a higher resolution image of the "D" and area around it?

  • PipestonePetePipestonePete Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:
    @PipestonePete can you take a higher resolution image of the "D" and area around it?

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,242 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PipestonePete said:

    @burfle23 said:
    @PipestonePete can you take a higher resolution image of the "D" and area around it?

    That 14D looks too good.

  • OwnerofawheatiehordeOwnerofawheatiehorde Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cheekbone looks off to me. Surfaces too clean aswell.

    Type collector, mainly into Seated. Young Numismatist. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for the images.

    The shape and position of the "D" look correct. Coin surfaces in the close-up image look off to me. Sounds odd, but looks "molded", not struck...

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,408 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The inside of the "D" does not look angular.

    In addition to the tilt, that may be the only way to prove it's counterfeit, as the coin itself looks exceptionally well made as a fake.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very good thread! Have you weighed the coin? Is the weight within tolarence?

    image
  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭

    I have a die-struck counterfeit 14-D much like this one. They are convincing at a glance, but usually upon closer inspection there some die markers or surface anomalies that indicate false dies. I'll see if I can find mine and post pics of it later.

    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist.
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looked too good.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,984 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:
    Would like to see Dan comment because that is a good fake.

    My first impression is that the devices are a little rounded over, and overall the coin looks too smooth and finely-granular.
    The fine details in Lincoln's beard are also missing.

  • segojasegoja Posts: 6,112 ✭✭✭✭

    OP's coin looks off at first glance. Hair Details look weak and the whole coin just has an "off" feel to it. Its also very clean from a bagmark perspective, which is concerning.

    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

    image
  • renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Okay, in spite of all the details looking good to me, including the shape and location of the mintmark and just about all the other details, the only thing I can offer is that it just … doesn’t … look … real to me. If I had to guess, it’s a spark-erosion die strike. Very convincing and likely determined by other factors, such as rim or edge detail, or maybe a “gut call” was made by the authenticator. Do they do that?

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,408 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @renomedphys said:
    Okay, in spite of all the details looking good to me, including the shape and location of the mintmark and just about all the other details, the only thing I can offer is that it just … doesn’t … look … real to me. If I had to guess, it’s a spark-erosion die strike. Very convincing and likely determined by other factors, such as rim or edge detail, or maybe a “gut call” was made by the authenticator. Do they do that?

    Whatever this coin is, and if it is counterfeit, I reiterate that it's a real good fake. Comments made before about the hair detail and the overall "look" ring true and it is a strange bird.

    I still agree that it is not genuine.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2024 4:30PM

    Inside of MM isn't right. Relief feels a bit off too. Just not quite right. Otherwise pretty good, though.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Overall look is wrong for a 14D. Obverse too weak while reverse too sharp and too clean and smooth surfaces, soft look. Nope, doesn't look "right" compared to other 14Ds that I've observed.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.

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