Why Does It Matter To You That Others Break Coins Out Of Slabs?
OAKSTAR
Posts: 7,222 ✭✭✭✭✭
MFeld recent thread "Why does it matter to you when a coin was graded and encapsulated?" raised a somewhat similar question for me.
During my somewhat modest numismatic travels and conversation with other collectors (coin shops, coin clubs, shows and collector friends) the reaction is just about universally negative when I show them or tell them about the coins I have broken out of slabs for my albums. They look at me like I have three heads!
Why does it seem to bother folks so much? Breaking coins out seems to be a sacrilegious event in the numismatic community.
I don't break all coins out. Mostly for my 7070. To ensure they are problem free and not counterfeits.
I've stopped telling people. I only tell you guys because you guys are the only ones that understand me! 🤣 😂 😉
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Comments
It doesn't bother me, however when/if it comes time to sell your coin, you may find that collectors and dealers are willing to pay less for it raw, despite it having been previously graded. Since coin dealers are in the business of making money from buying and selling coins, the idea of reducing a coin's value just to put it in album with the rest of the set may seem strange to them. However, they're your coins to do with as you please, and the opinion of a dealer need not align with yours.
I think it’s perfectly fine for collectors to remove coins from holders if that’s what they wish to do, as long as they’re fully aware of the financial risks.
I’ve seen several occasions where collectors have done that, later changed their minds, had the coins graded again and took substantial losses, due to lower grades. And I don’t recall any instances in which they did better, rather than worse.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It doesn’t- who cares? Do what you want with your own coins!
I regret that I didn’t send in the certs when I cracked coins out in the 1990’s and very early 2000’s. Probably 20-30 of them. I’ve heard of some crackout artist that are sitting on tons of them.
It doesn't matter to me. The only time I crack them out is when I am sending for an upgrade. I have done well with the upgraded coins that i cracked out.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
It is your property do as you please. Personally I have some graded and ungraded I leave the graded alone and put the ungraded in 2 by 2's maybe one day have them graded or maybe not. The cost of grading is not cheap especially when you live outside of the USA like myself up here in Canada. And if a package gets lost or stolen then I can't replace my Peru coins or many of my Mexican coins. Just not worth it for now anyway.
My opinion is similar to what @BustHalfBrian and @MFeld have already stated in this thread in that there is nothing inherently wrong with the practice, but those who do it should realize and accept that when the time comes for individual sale or collection liquidation that they are more likely to either realize less or to have a harder job in selling things quickly. There is also the chance that a coin becomes hairlined from the acetate slides in an album, but most folks are pretty careful.
However, after I wrote all that, there are times when I cringe when a coin is cracked out and that has everything to do with the generation of plastic and how rare the combination of plastic-coin-sticker is at the time. I'd pay far more for a wildly toned, common coin graded MS65 in a pristine, old holder with a gold CAC sticker than I would for the same wildly toned, common coin graded MS67 in a pristine, new holder with a green CAC sticker. One presentation has the allure of numismatic history and quirkiness to boost its relative liquidity and/or value to others while the other presentation just looks like another pretty coin in a maxed out holder. In a case such as that, you can't unring that bell.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Crack away, old holder or new, sticker(s) or not. Makes no difference to me.
WS
I don’t mind when people crack them out for their albums. But I’d rather have undergraded coins in older holders than maxed out ones in newer holders.
Mr_Spud
I think that TomB pretty much nailed it with his reply.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
It is perfectly fine with me if collectors remove coins from holders. When it comes to lower priced ancient coins, I've been tempted to do it myself because I prefer those coins raw. Ditto for lower priced political tokens.
The collector should realize that there are financial risks, and it costs money to get the coin certified again, if it is worthwhile.
TomB does that a lot.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Does not bother me in anyway. Years ago, the first 7070 I created had many cracked out coins and I saved the labels(most were NGC at that time) and they were in the back of the dansco. Sold it with no issues. I have a new Dansco 7070 that I'm working on with several holdered coins, which I have not cracked out as of yet. That is because, I'm not totally sure if they are to be the coin for this album for certain. I think everyone takes a risk with every holdered coin they keep as to how it is maintained. But if interested in having a quality collection in an album, then cracking them out is the usual method. I have made many forum members(myself included) digital albums so they can view their coins enlarged without handling the coin directly. This is helpful but nothing like holding the coin and viewing it inhand at different angles and varying light. Just an opinion.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Because I really really want this coin (which still shows active on cert verification) and breaking it out would severely disappoint me
I agree with all of your opinions. Trust me, I go into this venture with eyes wide open (but I wear eye protection, flying plastic! 🤣), knowing the negative downside. It's a hobby for me not an investment but I understand your points.
No plans to sell or have re-graded. My ideal plans are to build a legacy collection and keep it in the family for future generation. But we all know how that will probably turn out. My collection will most likely end up in one of your collections some day!! 😫 😖
I do take pictures of the slabs before I crack them out. Then I scotch tape the labels to the pictures and put them in the back of the albums.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I would love to know the average length of time a coin spends in a holder. I bet it’s around 5 years.
As for the OP’s question….., crack them, spend them, melt them down. It’s all the same to me.
That would be interesting to know. I think it's another sampling question...there are so many low dollar Morgans, Cents, Buffs, moderns, etc that are probably locked up forever. I would bet longer than 5 years.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
As far as removing it from a slab. It's not my coin, so it doesn't harm me in any way. As do I care? Well, as someone who really likes nice coins. I don't really understand it. Not so much as a financial thing (which obviously it is), but also as you are removing a protective casing meant to protect the coin.
It's sort of like letting your kids ride a bike / skateboard without a helmet, knee and elbow pads. You can do it, but you may come to regret it too. (both physically and financially)
Now, if I get a nice coin. (I just did) I'm not incline to have it graded or slab it. That said, if I do buy a freshly minted round that just looks astounding. I do buy those air tight round cases for them. I especially like copper coins and want the air tight seal for them.
I agree with a lot of the comments. I've broke a few myself to fill my Dansco albums. One point a haven't seen brought up. When breaking out to resubmit ( I'm talking near or top pop coins here ) it does mess with the pop numbers. I realize the " crack out " practice has been going on long enough that the pop numbers will never be correct. I know of a coin that have been cracked out, submitted raw five times and it keeps coming back the same grade without the labels being turned in. This in trying to get a half point upgrade to a ms68 and make it a top pop. So now that particular coin shows an inflated number of ms67+, a population that does not exist.
It's too bad that the pop reports don't reflect any coin cracked out automatically. One day it probably will. A living pop report. You could watch a page - morgan dpllars for example and a light would go green at the date and grade line and red at the dat and grade line showing new totals reflecting additions and crack outs. We can dream can't I.
What kind of an imbecile cracks out perfectly good certified coins, and especially DMPL's and old holders?
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
I'd find it ironic if the OP received negative judgementalism about cracking out from everyone they talked to... except the folks here on a forum owned by a slabbing company. Logically, you might think this place would be the most pro-slab, anti-crackout gang around.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
I care only when a particular coin that I want is cracked out of an older holder, otherwise I couldn't careless what anyone does to and with their coins
On the contrary, wouldn't you think (and I don't know, I'm just asking the question), that most coins that are broken out are resubmitted? Which the TPG'ers would promote.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I know, as per usual, I'm late in replying to this question. I have a lot of holdered (TPG) coins. I have cracked out some to put in albums. I like raw coins because I find it particularly fun for me to create displays for our annual coin show. Raw coins just look better on display than a bunch of holders. I agree that there is less haggling when selling holdered coins than raw ones and if that's important to you, please keep that in mind. I have coins for my simply enjoyment of them and the selling part was never a big concern of mine. I always purchased original higher grade coins and after 60+ years of so doing, the investment part has taken care of its self nicely. I'd say do with your collection that whiat makes you happy.
Louis Armstrong
Do whatever makes you happy, but I am inclined to keep a slabbed coin slabbed. If ever I needed one for an album, I'd tend to get one that's seen at least modest circulation to extensive, such that its surfaces aren't likely to change. Having made the mistake of, even with extreme care and atmospheric precautions, placing BU (mostly silver in this case) pieces into albums that tended to tone in an unattractive manner. I much prefer keeping BU pieces BU, and if using an album, only trusting well-circulated pieces in it these days.
I've cracked out more than a dozen for my XF-BU Buffalo set without a second thought. Much prefer viewing the set in its entirety rather than individual coins. When its time to sell, many, if not all, will be reslabbed.
Cracking out coins that are high end for the grade and resubmitting them for higher grades leaves a disproportionate number of lower end coins in holders resulting in gradeflation, a redefining of grading standards.
Cracking out coins because you prefer them out of their holders as a collector is perfectly acceptable with the caveats noted by others above.
Is cracking out a cleaned coin or one with details grade and offering it raw because you think that it will bring a better price OK? What if you can't see the noted problem? Just some food for thought.
If you enjoy it, by all means, crack away. But just remember:
-You are lowering the value of your collection by doing so, when/if it is time to ever resell.
-Destroying an old collectible slab will hurt you financially, too. It will also make the extant ones worth more.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I thought this was an unusual auction:
It sold for $45. all in.
There has got to be much more than that just in grading fees.
(I look forward to receiving it.)
peacockcoins
It doesn’t matter to me. Have cracked out my share of coins - resubmit. Others people have cracked them out for their albums.
Additionally if coin goes bad in the holder it’s slab life is over anyway. Slab life can vary based on reaction to atmosphere, heat, salt air, humidity. Coin Preservation Handbook 101.
I'm with everyone as far as it's your property, you do you.
My issue are the POP reports that must be so whack at this point! AND it's not just the top pop coins, it's the guys with AU58's hoping to get that MS plastic as well as the guys with MS64+ coins that are trying for that GEM slab...
Yes know one guy a AU58 treasure hunter / submit for higher grade then $$$ profit. Then he looks like hero his big ticket 64 or 65 coin just 5pct over bid from his table.
I cannot imagine why anyone would care about someone else cracking out a coin from a slab! No harm is done (assuming it's done carefully), except that the person cracking out takes a risk on resale.
I've cracked out fairly low-value coins, to put in albums. And I see nothing wrong with that.
Good thing Dansco doesn't make albums for the $10 and $20 sets I am currently pursuing.
I did crack a couple for my 7070 album, but whatever that cost me is a heck of a lot less than some spend on hobbies like golf or boating.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
Or, golfing off a boat.
peacockcoins
Follow-up:
(If you know, you know...)
peacockcoins
Titleist?
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album