Bust Half Dime - Dramatically Toned in Slab

Bikergeek

This 1837 LM-4 (Small 5c) is at auction at Heritage. I compared the Heritage photos, which I presume to be recent, with the TrueView photos of the coin. Assuming that the TrueViews were taken immediately prior to encapsulation, it's fair to conclude that all the toning happened inside a sealed slab. I can't remember seeing such a dramatic change!

Note: I'm not asking anyone to weigh in on whether it's a good coin or not; someone will like it enough to spend a chunk of change on it (the small 5C is not cheap in MS). That someone won't be me. I'm just interested in comments about what conditions may have contributed to such a transmogrification...

First of each pair is the Heritage pic, followed by its TrueView.

RobertScotLover

I bet if you labeled each photo : after & before you would get a bigger audience. Some ole coin doc really put lipstick on er. A shame that this happens every 30 seconds, hopefully your thread will alert potential buyers and the coin doesn't go nuclear, although the coin looks like radiation was applied

edited to say OOPs, just saw the edge view pcgs holder, someone dipper her, either way glad you came upon the real tale of the tape so to say

humanssuck

Its an older slab. Those aren't airtight, and there are a number of them around that have either TV's or prior auctions where the coins are white, and then they are relisted dramatically toned later. Ive seen one that went from blast white to monster toned in less than 3 months from its prior auction appearance to being relisted.

My assumption is someone gassed it in a pressurised/heated chamber.

TomB

Here are the images with the PCGS TV image on top and the current HA images below-

This could very likely simply be a case of a coin dipped and not properly rinsed and/or neutralized prior to certification. If so, we might expect the coin to continue to darken over time.

jacrispies

Quite the transformation! Heard of this happening but never seen an example before. Thanks for sharing!

Higashiyama

@TomB:

Thanks for rearranging these.

The newer photos sure look like a dip gone catastrophically bad!

But, for the original true views, why isn’t the coin whiter and brighter? Are there dips that yield a kind if gray tone? The true view coin doesn’t look natural (to my somewhat unsophisticated eye), but it also doesn’t have a typical whitish/shiny dipped look.

lilolme

@Higashiyama said:
@TomB:

Thanks for rearranging these.

The newer photos sure look like a dip gone catastrophically bad!

But, for the original true views, why isn’t the coin whiter and brighter? Are there dips that yield a kind if gray tone? The true view coin doesn’t look natural (to my somewhat unsophisticated eye), but it also doesn’t have a typical whitish/shiny dipped look.

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On the coin color I believe that is mostly in the photo. I agree that it is rather grey looking in the TV. However, if you look at the above HA photo of the obverse and center-left, the coin appears white to off white color. I don't think this coin became more white since the TV. I cropped the coin out of the other HA obverse photo with the slab and it is below. This same area appears more grey in this photo (but not the same as the TV). Also cropped out the reverse of the above TV which is showing some minor local brown 'color'.
This photo from HA:

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Cropped TV:

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PS - This TV while it shows up on the cert lookup does not come up on the TV page for me. This might indicate it was not a paid for TV. Not that it necessarily matters but just noting it.

MFeld

@Higashiyama said:
@TomB:

Thanks for rearranging these.

The newer photos sure look like a dip gone catastrophically bad!

But, for the original true views, why isn’t the coin whiter and brighter? Are there dips that yield a kind if gray tone? The true view coin doesn’t look natural (to my somewhat unsophisticated eye), but it also doesn’t have a typical whitish/shiny dipped look.

I’m not Tom, but…not all dipped silver coins end up bright white. Many have been dipped more than once and exhibit diminished luster and/or are somewhat off in color.

Bikergeek

@lilolme I tried the TrueView page and get a 403 error. Odd. But that kind of thing happens with some frequency so I never know when it's a transient issue. https://images.pcgs.com/TRUeview/28892724

lilolme

@Bikergeek said:
@lilolme I tried the TrueView page and get a 403 error. Odd. But that kind of thing happens with some frequency so I never know when it's a transient issue. https://images.pcgs.com/TRUeview/28892724

Yes that is what I get. As noted at the bottom I sometimes think these are not paid for TV but just taken 'because' and therefore not available. But that is a guess.