...So what are German minors worth?

cladking

I've been out of this market for decades. They used to be quite popular and nice non culls in collectible grades traded for a few dollars each.

Now I see even culls going for "crazy money" on eBay and Numista listing most between about 3 and $11.

I get the sense that there is very limited collecting. Can these even be sold?

neildrobertson

It's hard to speak too generally because the topic is large. German minors are always populator. There seems to always be an appetite for them in that sub-$10 range. When I list examples on ebay, it's hard to get someone to pay more than $20 for a raw minor coin. Just because the culls are selling for more than you'd expect doesn't mean the wholesome coins are being correspondingly appreciated more. These coins tend to be attractive to newer collectors, so the lack of differentiation between culls and non-culls makes sense in that context.

MS coppers rarely cross $100, and I expect raw Ms pieces to sell in the $30-50 range in most cases. Proof coppers are significantly rarer and are still worth roughly what they were 10 years ago, $100-300.

Silver minors are more desirable and more valuable but not significantly.

I think there will always be a ceiling on the minor coins because most people would prefer to thalers or larger silver coins. With the common thalers starting in the $60-100 range, it rarely makes sense for a collector to pay over $100 for a minor. Once you get into that price range, most collectors would rather buy a larger silver coin.

There tend to be very small markets of people that collect specific cities/states that will go deep on the minor coins and will may more for rarer or nicer examples.

cladking

@neildrobertson said:
It's hard to speak too generally because the topic is large. German minors are always populator. There seems to always be an appetite for them in that sub-$10 range. When I list examples on ebay, it's hard to get someone to pay more than $20 for a raw minor coin. Just because the culls are selling for more than you'd expect doesn't mean the wholesome coins are being correspondingly appreciated more. These coins tend to be attractive to newer collectors, so the lack of differentiation between culls and non-culls makes sense in that context.

MS coppers rarely cross $100, and I expect raw Ms pieces to sell in the $30-50 range in most cases. Proof coppers are significantly rarer and are still worth roughly what they were 10 years ago, $100-300.

Silver minors are more desirable and more valuable but not significantly.

I think there will always be a ceiling on the minor coins because most people would prefer to thalers or larger silver coins. With the common thalers starting in the $60-100 range, it rarely makes sense for a collector to pay over $100 for a minor. Once you get into that price range, most collectors would rather buy a larger silver coin.

There tend to be very small markets of people that collect specific cities/states that will go deep on the minor coins and will may more for rarer or nicer examples.

Thank you very much.

I suppose these are too common generically to have much of a wholesale market. With so many issuers and mintages often over a million there must be a significant supply.

It looks like an area of opportunity for young collectors. So many of these coins have problems the surviving numbers must be relatively low in good condition. Most issues appear with enough wear as to imply the attrition in circulation was high as well.

Eddi

You guys said it above: German states coinage is a vast area. So many entities issued coinage - city states, dukedoms, kingdoms, bishoprics. Here in Germany most people who do collect German minors tend to specialise in a certain area they identify with, be it a time period, a specific city, a state, or a coinage type.

I collect 19th century German states coinage with an emphasis on those states which belonged to the German Bund 1815-1871, and also minors issued in Germany during the Napoleonic era in the area where I live. In my experience, there is a relatively healthy demand among german collectors for minors of this era.

Here are some examples of minors which are scarce to very rare, for which a have paid more than a few hundred euros in some cases. Some of these are almost never seen at auction.

For example, the humble 6 Kreuzer 1809 from Baden in my collection is only the 2nd. example I have seen in over 30 years. The 3 kreuzer from Hesse 1809 is the only one I have ever seen, likewise the 5 kreuzer 1809 and the 3 kreuzer 1816 from Nassau ( I had to wait 20 years until I finally found one).

In spite of this, prices are still extremely low compared to US coinage of similar scarcity. This is not to say I bought them for for a few dollars (or euros).

syl

Well, I have over 300 of the GS minors, some of which I couldn't even find in Krause. I had to get an 18th century German guide, written in German, to ID some of the coins by just looking at the photos. I haven't looked at them in over 20 years, but bought over 40 years ago, so maybe I should see again. Some of the silvers were worth quite a bit, even that long ago

Göttinger

@Eddi said:
You guys said it above: German states coinage is a vast area. So many entities issued coinage - city states, dukedoms, kingdoms, bishoprics. Here in Germany most people who do collect German minors tend to specialise in a certain area they identify with, be it a time period, a specific city, a state, or a coinage type.

I collect 19th century German states coinage with an emphasis on those states which belonged to the German Bund 1815-1871, and also minors issued in Germany during the Napoleonic era in the area where I live. In my experience, there is a relatively healthy demand among german collectors for minors of this era.

Here are some examples of minors which are scarce to very rare, for which a have paid more than a few hundred euros in some cases. Some of these are almost never seen at auction.

For example, the humble 6 Kreuzer 1809 from Baden in my collection is only the 2nd. example I have seen in over 30 years. The 3 kreuzer from Hesse 1809 is the only one I have ever seen, likewise the 5 kreuzer 1809 and the 3 kreuzer 1816 from Nassau ( I had to wait 20 years until I finally found one).

In spite of this, prices are still extremely low compared to US coinage of similar scarcity. This is not to say I bought them for for a few dollars (or euros).

Very nice collection of some very rare German states coins, congratulations!
May I ask where you are from? I am from Hildesheim but now live in Göttingen and collect coins from Hildesheim (bishopic and city) and the cities in southern lower saxony.
You are right, most German states coins tend to get sold to local collectors. The period after the Napoleonic wars seems to be a bit more popular amongst collectors, but especially before 1750 there are many exceptionally rare coins - some are worth a little fortune, but I also found some coins wich were never officially published for less than 20$, like a 1762 Groschen or a 1620's Pfennig from the bishopic of Hildesheim.
If you buy a mixed bulk of coins (wich has usually already been searched) the average price here in Germany is 1 - 2 Dollars for a copper coin and 3 - 8 Dollars for a small silver coin, but depending on the territory, age, type and shape of the coin it may be much more.

Eddi

@Göttinger said:

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Very nice collection of some very rare German states coins, congratulations!
May I ask where you are from? I am from Hildesheim but now live in Göttingen and collect coins from Hildesheim (bishopic and city) and the cities in southern lower saxony.
You are right, most German states coins tend to get sold to local collectors. The period after the Napoleonic wars seems to be a bit more popular amongst collectors, but especially before 1750 there are many exceptionally rare coins - some are worth a little fortune, but I also found some coins wich were never officially published for less than 20$, like a 1762 Groschen or a 1620's Pfennig from the bishopic of Hildesheim.
If you buy a mixed bulk of coins (wich has usually already been searched) the average price here in Germany is 1 - 2 Dollars for a copper coin and 3 - 8 Dollars for a small silver coin, but depending on the territory, age, type and shape of the coin it may be much more.

Thank you very much, @Göttinger.
I currently live in Hessen, Rhein-Main area and like to collect (among others) issues from Nassau and Hessen-Darmstadt. I know very little numismatically about Hildesheim and Lower Saxony, but can well imagine it is an area which is vast and challenging.

neildrobertson

German States is like medal collecting. Many of them are rare, so finding a rare German States coin is common.

Eddi

This is not a german minor, but I am showing it here to illustrate how scarcity vs. value plays out for german coins vs, for example, US coins.

Hessen-Darmstadt
Ludwig III, Grand Duke, 1848-1877.
Doppelgulden 1848.

This coin was struck in the historic year of the german revolution. The first year of issue of a series struck over 6 years. It is, as far as I know (and confirmed by a major german auction house) only the second example known. This year had not been seen for over 100 years, until an example showed up in 2015. It hammered for about 7600 euros including auction fees.
My example is the second example known.
The price it achieved is certainly not small, but my guess is that it is far below what an equivalent U.S half dollar of the same era and with a population of only two examples would bring.
One can dream!

cladking

Thanks everybody. I learned a few things and there are some great coins pictured.

Jabshier

German Minor coinage prices are all over the spectrum now a days good place too look is at auction houses see what the going prices are (what someone is willing to really pay for a coin for their collection) too hard to price the stuff especially the “top pop” stuff I’m no stranger when it comes to buy older copper German minor coinage in top pop such as proofs and other minor coinage in top pop categories not surprising prices can climb up over $300-$400 for some minor coinage in auction house bidding wars 40-30 years ago nobody wanted this material dealers used throw this stuff in bargain bins sell it cheaply ….

Another market that been seeing spike is Weimar Republic years after WW1 (Notgeld coinage) been taking off in market I’ve seen some pieces sell for upward over $200+ … I’ve been slowly starting put together a high graded notgeld coin collections it’s nice series to try to collect they are difficult to find them in good excellent condition the often are corroded or rusted is they are made of iron