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Question Answered. Thank you!

Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 897 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 17, 2024 5:26AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Thank you for all the good advice.

Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA

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    Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 897 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2024 5:27AM

    I will definelty give it all my best consideration.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA

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    Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 897 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2024 5:27AM

    Thank you

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA

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    MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,667 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2024 6:33AM

    Looks to be a nice collection. Those photo graded coins in the first picture are collectible in their own right.
    That was early Anacs grading service from the mid-late 80's and early 90's.
    If you can find access to the greysheet price guide, either online or your local friendly coin shop may loan you one... that may be the safest way to buy - fair to the seller and yourself I would think if you're hoping to re-sell them.
    You could do well putting a lot of it here on the BST with room for some profit.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fair to the seller would be to have them get multiple offers.

    If you have to ask the question, you're either going to be too high or too low.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would make an offer but insist the seller get other offers. It can be really hard to avoid hard feelings.

    You are almost definitely going to pay less than a dealer might fit some items that you either are ignorant about or disinterested in.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerguy21D said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Fair to the seller would be to have them get multiple offers.

    If you have to ask the question, you're either going to be too high or too low.

    Maybe cougar can make an offer, or at least share his insights…..

    Lol. Ideally, that would be the 2nd offer that you're bidding against.

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    Joe_360Joe_360 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My 2 cents:
    Okay, it's an inheritance, so he not a dealer either, and will probably take a resendable offer..

    Start with an excel spread-sheet, list all of the coins/sets that he has to offer.

    If you can get your hands on the latest Greysheet that would work the best. If not a combination of the latest Redbook, latest eBay sales COMPLETED plus PCGS/NCG websites. You may also maybe visit a local dealer and/or ask questions (other coin collectors)

    Do you homework and list highs/low ranges for every coin/set. Determine where you are at as far as your budget (don't miss a house or car payment to buy coins). Take you time and feel comfortable with your investigation...

    Determine were you want to start your offer at, and how high that you are willing to go based on budget and fair offer. Objective, "do not over pay an d lose $"

    Other may say that I am off base, but that is what I would do...

    Good luck and if you're not having fun, STOP!

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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,398 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2024 8:35AM

    If you’re not a dealer you should pay 15% back of full retail for the coins and 5% back to the bullion. This will save him the trouble of selling individually and net him slightly more to what an eBay or auction would while giving you a discount compared to buying in actual retail if the stuff is for your collection. This would be a win-win for the two of you.

    If you are planning of flipping for a profit but are not a dealer with those channels to liquidate you’re simply sticking your self in the middle to skim off the top of his inheritance and should send him to a great collections or quality dealer who will do a similar service of saving him the trouble for only a few points more. If you want to buy and still make make money via dealer or auction then you’re no friend to him.

    There is already several thousand dollars of value there so ask your self if you’re prepared for that.

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    Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,953 ✭✭✭✭✭

    $226 to $230 is a fair price for the 10 oz silver bars as of right now. The bullion price will change so make sure you are aware of that when you bid. All bullion will change over time. The coins are not bullion. Those will need some homework. Condition is everything with collector coins. Bid higher on the better condition coins, lower on the others. The "CC" dollars are worth more then the the "regular" silver dollars in most cases.

    Looks like a fun project really!

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    Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am not a flipper.
    Heck I lose money when I sell coins.
    I wouodnt do anything sleazy.
    I myself like those old holders.
    Anything I buy will be most likely for my collection.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA

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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,398 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2024 9:04AM

    @Morgan13 said:
    I am not a flipper.
    Heck I lose money when I sell coins.
    I wouodnt do anything sleazy.
    I myself like those old holders.
    Anything I buy will be most likely for my collection.

    The good thing about the 15% rule is you will show favorably if he goes out and sources other offers. Ensurig your reputation is strong. That said figuring out what stuff is selling for currently is the trick. I would use great collections and ebay completed sales and avg the top three assuming no outliers.

    Asking specific questions to this thread and keeping it going though the process like "what premium does a phot cert add to an avg 91cc" could field better answers than the generic life advice you will most likely field otherwise. Good luck

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    Project NumismaticsProject Numismatics Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    I would make an offer but insist the seller get other offers. It can be really hard to avoid hard feelings.

    You are almost definitely going to pay less than a dealer might fit some items that you either are ignorant about or disinterested in.

    To avoid hard feelings or paying too little, OP can always cut a check to the seller if the OP ends up netting significantly more than expected.

    OP could also take the collection on consignment with an agreed upon margin covering time, expenses and profit. Only works if the seller is patient though.

    The key for the OP is knowing what to sell where - OP is going to have a hard time maximizing sale price if he doesn't frequently sell coins in various venues.

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2024 9:44AM

    If you are collector with few outlets to sell the pieces you don't want, you might want to ask yourself if you really should buy it. Frankly I'd be reluctant to tie up the money if I didn't want the items.

    The next thing to figure in is that you won't get the good prices for the coins if they are not certified. Certification is expensive and time consuming these days. You should reduce your offer with that in mind.

    You also need to know how to grade. ANACS, in the papers era, were very conservative graders at one point, but then they changed their standards. They used to date the papers and there was a period when the date on the papers had a big influence on the value of the coin. An ANACS graded MS-63 could be an MS-65 by today's standards, or it could be an AU-58.

    I had a 1909-S-VDB cent that came with VF-20 ANACS papers. Today it is in an NGC EF-40 holder, and that grade is accurate. But it can go both ways.

    Don't feel badly if you are offering prices that are 20 to 40 percent under Grey Sheet bid. You are buying raw coins that might require certification to make them marketable. The Grey Sheet numbers really reflect certified coins for good material. The cheap stuff can be viewed as raw, but for the "good stuff," the assumption is certified. When you buy raw coins, you have to subtract for the certification and shipping costs AND the risk that you don't get the grade you thought you might get.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    erwindocerwindoc Posts: 4,927 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Everyone has had good advice. When I have been placed in this situation, you have to think differently and become more like a dealer. I think 15-20% back would be fair to both parties involved as mentioned and dont feel obligated to buy anything you dont want or need.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Project Numismatics said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    I would make an offer but insist the seller get other offers. It can be really hard to avoid hard feelings.

    You are almost definitely going to pay less than a dealer might fit some items that you either are ignorant about or disinterested in.

    To avoid hard feelings or paying too little, OP can always cut a check to the seller if the OP ends up netting significantly more than expected.

    OP could also take the collection on consignment with an agreed upon margin covering time, expenses and profit. Only works if the seller is patient though.

    The key for the OP is knowing what to sell where - OP is going to have a hard time maximizing sale price if he doesn't frequently sell coins in various venues.

    The hard feelings don't come from the offer but the perception of the offer. As soon as the seller sees a coin that LOOKS LIKE one they sold for much less, they may start questioning the sale.

    Personally, I do not like doing such deals with family or friends

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erwindoc said:
    Everyone has had good advice. When I have been placed in this situation, you have to think differently and become more like a dealer. I think 15-20% back would be fair to both parties involved as mentioned and dont feel obligated to buy anything you dont want or need.

    More like 5% on bullion.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Make an inventory list. Look them up in CPG, Coin Facts, eBay seller price, red book, etc. Your MV PG ref. Enter these in the column - Sell. Make a tally spreadsheet. For prob matl put your discounted offer. Some just put zero. Then take the bottom line x the pct of estimated sell (bottom line total) you will pay. This number comes in your column for Inventory cost.

    In working his angle - Ronnie will fudge down the offer number some to make room if seller counter offer. Have fun! Ronnie had an estate referred to him by his bank branch Mgr - $12,000 MV per his MV list. His Calc buy price $8000. He fudged it down to $6000 offer they came back with $7000. He accepted / successful deal. At the next show he set up at even flipped some around the bourse. The inexpensive stuff went to his collector coin boxes. Some of the material sent off for slabbing. An analogy analog would be early mankind hunting and slaughtering a Mammoth for tribe survival. The slaughtered prey was used for food and other things like clothing,etc.

    Sure. 50% of market value won't ruin your relationship with a co-worker.

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    rte592rte592 Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2024 10:50AM

    @erwindoc said:
    Everyone has had good advice. When I have been placed in this situation, you have to think differently and become more like a dealer. I think 15-20% back would be fair to both parties involved as mentioned and dont feel obligated to buy anything you dont want or need.

    I'll agree with this statement on the items that interest you.
    The items that don't and you are going to pass to the next person you Will have more time involved, take your time in consideration unless you just want a distraction from your routine.

    When it's all said and done the seller won't know what they sold in a few weeks.
    IF they are going to get hurt feeling about the deal, it's going to happen at any price.

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    lermishlermish Posts: 1,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Make an inventory list. Look them up in CPG, Coin Facts, eBay seller price, red book, etc. Your MV PG ref. Enter these in the column - Sell. Make a tally spreadsheet. For prob matl put your discounted offer. Some just put zero. Then take the bottom line x the pct of estimated sell (bottom line total) you will pay. This number comes in your column for Inventory cost.

    In working his angle - Ronnie will fudge down the offer number some to make room if seller counter offer. Have fun! Ronnie had an estate referred to him by his bank branch Mgr - $12,000 MV per his MV list. His Calc buy price $8000. He fudged it down to $6000 offer they came back with $7000. He accepted / successful deal. At the next show he set up at even flipped some around the bourse. The inexpensive stuff went to his collector coin boxes. Some of the material sent off for slabbing. An analogy analog would be early mankind hunting and slaughtering a Mammoth for tribe survival. The slaughtered prey was used for food and other things like clothing,etc.

    Waitwhat??
    Are we doing 3rd person now??
    Jaypem likes the way Ronnie slays the prey..💥

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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The way you have this titled is that you are being offered a small collection, which is not the exact same thing as being offered the chance to cherrypick the items you want from a small collection. The difference in writing is subtle, but can be profound for the seller.

    The seller presumably wants the collection to disappear and turn into funds while the best course of action for you is likely to buy one or two items you are interested in and pass on the rest. That doesn't help the seller very much since you will likely purchase the most liquid and/or desirable items and will leave the bottom-barrel stuff behind. This low end stuff doesn't help someone move a collection.

    What appears to be most fair in a case such as this, since you don't seem to really know how to deal with the collection and you certainly don't want to buy the entire collection, is to act as the middleman or agent for the seller. You no doubt know some dealers in the area better than the seller, which means you can likely work with a dealer and offer the collection to the dealer for a cut, or commission, of say 5-7% of the collection value. Your coworker should agree to the sale after you provide an estimate from the dealer or you can charge the coworker upfront to write an estimate beforehand. Either way, make certain the coworker has a solid range of expectation for funds and agrees to them and then you should be in that range.

    In this way the collection gets sold, which is what the seller wants; you get paid an amount that may be fair, but won't make you rich, for doing some work; the local dealer knows they can work with you and you might be able to buy outright an item or two of interest from the collection at near-dealer cost. This also keeps you essentially at arm's length from the transaction if the seller later believes they got too little. After all, you sold to a third-party and got the seller's okay first.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The seller could care less. He was basically throwing it at me.
    This is small potatoes compared to what he inherited. A house and a vacation house. Loads of liquid cash and other assets.
    I will make him a fair offer and keep the whole collection.
    He has other Collectibles as well. He wants me to buy them to. He doesn't even want to bring it home. He's clearing out his parents house. Didn't even know they had this stuff.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA

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    telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    First off, I agree wholeheartedly with what @BillJones said.
    As to this deal...all I see here are blurry pictures of old ANACS photo certs, which might/might not even go with the coins in question and/or may or may not be accurately graded. I think the correct response is to look at the stuff in hand first and then make a decision as to whether you want to buy the deal and go from there.

    I also notice that way too many people are hung up on the friggin Greysheet; it's not a panacea...


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
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    coastaljerseyguycoastaljerseyguy Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Grading the coins correctly is the hard part, getting prices is the easy part

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    I would want to see both the raw and slabbed coins in person in order to get an idea of what they're worth when you are talking about a collection that could be worth more than a couple grand.

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    Meant to add: Because most of the photos posted don't really show squat...

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    SimonWSimonW Posts: 634 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’d like the Photograde Washington quarter if you end up selling it.

    I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.

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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2024 12:41PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Project Numismatics said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    I would make an offer but insist the seller get other offers. It can be really hard to avoid hard feelings.

    The key for the OP is knowing what to sell where - OP is going to have a hard time maximizing sale price if he doesn't frequently sell coins in various venues.

    The hard feelings don't come from the offer but the perception of the offer. As soon as the seller sees a coin that LOOKS LIKE one they sold for much less, they may start questioning the sale.

    Personally, I do not like doing such deals with family or friends

    Agree wholeheartedly.

    My wife’s grandmother was getting near the end, and one of aunts was a full time caregiver and wanted to sell grandma’s coins to help with expenses. She asked me to appraise and buy them. I said I will appraise but won’t buy.
    Took a number of hours, and it was mostly junk silver, Whitman folders with common circ coins, bicentennial coins in bulk, common worn silver certificates, etc. I tallied up a retail and wholesale estimate and wrapped it up. The aunt was literally begging me to buy it at any price, but I was firm.

    Sure enough, a few months later it got back to me that the uncles heard about my estimates and were appalled at the low value, and confirmed their suspicion that I didn’t know what I was doing, as they knew grandma’s coins were worth a LOT more than that.
    Well there had been rumors she had old gold coins, boxes of silver dollars, etc. Well if she did I sure wasn’t shown any! Apparently these had been sold or given away years ago. I can’t imagine the hard feelings there would have been, if I’d actually bought them.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
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    SimonWSimonW Posts: 634 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2024 12:39PM

    I can’t give you any real help, just the graysheet as others have stated.

    I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lol. Thanks for the reminder

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @telephoto1 said:
    First off, I agree wholeheartedly with what @BillJones said.
    As to this deal...all I see here are blurry pictures of old ANACS photo certs, which might/might not even go with the coins in question and/or may or may not be accurately graded. I think the correct response is to look at the stuff in hand first and then make a decision as to whether you want to buy the deal and go from there.

    I also notice that way too many people are hung up on the friggin Greysheet; it's not a panacea...

    @telephoto1 makes a good point. One of the problems with ANACS papers was that the coins could have been switched. That is why slab grading came into existence. You need to use your sharp eyesight to make sure that it's the same piece.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,309 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good luck. Most offers to friends or family without coin knowledge, might very well not fare well. When unknowedgeable people make and/or accept offers on coins, there WILL always be the after the fact incidents. Other family member or friend will say, "I would have paid way more than that!" or "I know someone who would have paid blah blah blah" or "Somebody I know got 10 times that for 1 coin". It will not likely end well unless you are one lucky individual.
    Again, I wish you the best.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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    Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    He just going to give them to me and let me figure it out.
    I know how to grade fairly well.
    As for coins being swapped out of ANACS holders it's not to tough to find identifiable marks on the coin.
    The 1891 CC looks like it could be PL.
    This is just a sample of what there actually is. I won't know until I get them.
    In the end we will both be happy. He's a Harley Davidson guy. That's all he cares about. He thinks coin collecting is for nerds. I got no problem being a Coin Geek.
    I wish someone would dump to houses and a bunch of liquidity in my lap!

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA

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    DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What percent of the collection do you really want? Are you in an area where there are several coin dealers?

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    ShaunBC5ShaunBC5 Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sounds like the two of you have a good relationship and he’s not hung up on this collection.
    I’d probably look at the good coins and say “what would I pay for this at a coin show?” and maybe back off a tiny bit from there. Bullion is bullion, whatever’s fair at the time. Junk is junk and I don’t feel like you’re obligated to pay anything for it if you’re just going to end up donating it to the YN Treasure Hunt at the next coin show, anyway.
    Your time has value and so does his. It sounds like you two have a good enough relationship to where you can treat him like you’d want to be treated and be able to explain it to him, if he even cares.
    Good luck! I’ve looked at a lot of coins for coworkers and have never been given the chance to purchase. It sounds like a fun spot to be in.

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    SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,721 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Once you acquire the collection from the person who inherited them, do something nice for the seller to show your appreciation (maybe a dinner on you; plus pick out one of the coins in the collection that is high grade and eye appealing, have it graded by our host and gift it back to the seller as a reminder of his parent(s)).

    If the seller is not concerned about the "value" of the collection and just wants to dispose of it for quick cash that is representative of what it's wholesale market value is (as a bunch of essentially raw coins) figure out a price that you think is realistic, pay it, take possession of the collection and have lots of fun looking through it. Whether you keep the collection or flip it take advantage of this opportunity to have some hobby fun.

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    Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you guys.
    You've given me plenty to think about. I appreciate everyone's input.
    I like to keep the hobby fun as @SanctionII just posted.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA

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