Home U.S. Coin Forum
Options

Morgan issue - die crack or planchet defect?

Line running from "B" in liberty through 2nd star left of date, also seems a small below the "B" on that line. Reverse is perfect.
Is this a serious die crack or something with the planchet?

Dan
"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

- Abraham Lincoln

Comments

  • Options
    DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Planchet flaw. Big 'un.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • Options
    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    I believe the planchet flaw may be a lamination. But what do I know, I'm just a grader. >:)

  • Options
    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm in the lamination column.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Options

    Thanks. Thought that might be it but I'm certainly not an expert....

    Dan
    "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

    - Abraham Lincoln
  • Options
    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,795 ✭✭✭✭✭

    looks like a planchet flaw- I like the image- nice color

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • Options
    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,521 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2024 2:48PM

    Lamination, I like the coin 👍

  • Options

    Planchet flaw - and a beautiful coin!

  • Options
    Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice. So the planchet flaw is the de-lamination of the silver alloy, correct?

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall

  • Options
    hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's a cool looking Morgan.

  • Options
    jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Large strike through

  • Options
    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    @jonathanb said:
    Large strike through

    Are you trying to be funny? If you are, it would be nice to see some indication such as a wink. There are lots of new collectors reading these discussions and misinformation is not good.

    THAT SAID, if you really think this is a strike through, please say you are not making a joke and all of us will explain what we see on the coin to come to the conclusion that it is a planchet flaw called a lamination because the surface of the metal is beginning to split away. o:)

  • Options
    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,704 ✭✭✭✭✭

    B down to the 2nd star is definitely a planchet defect. The next question I'd have is what caused the other sharp change in toning from the I down to the 4th star. Is it really a lamination that is 1/4" wide and nearly the full diameter of the coin?

  • Options
    BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Almost could be called a major "Scarface".

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • Options
    jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2024 6:35AM

    Large strike through > @Insider3 said:

    @jonathanb said:
    Large strike through

    Are you trying to be funny? If you are, it would be nice to see some indication such as a wink. There are lots of new collectors reading these discussions and misinformation is not good.

    THAT SAID, if you really think this is a strike through, please say you are not making a joke and all of us will explain what we see on the coin to come to the conclusion that it is a planchet flaw called a lamination because the surface of the metal is beginning to split away. o:)

    I might be wrong, but I'm not joking. The picture shows a very long narrow area with two clear edges. That is typical of what you get when there is an extra bit of metal on the sheet during the rolling process. The extra metal will get smeared in the direction of the rollers, which if course could end up in any direction on the struck coin.

    The tips of the rolled material would be tapered on either end. You can easily see the tapering towards the top right of the obverse. You can't see tapering on the lower left. That's what you would expect if the smeared metal was larger than the coin -- the rest of the smear might be on the adjacent planchet.

    A slightly different composition on the struck through portion produced a slightly different toning pattern, making it more visible here.

    If there was only one clear edges I'd agree with a lamination. The two clear, narrow, and tapered edges say that something got smeared into the planchet stock during the rolling process, then remained embedded into the planchet until it was eventually struck through.

  • Options
    GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭✭

    How could a planchet have a flaw -- isn't it just a raw blank ?

  • Options
    RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 615 ✭✭✭✭

    Its one of those previously mentioned by the members here, but what ever it is exactly it is very cool and appealing to me

  • Options
    jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldFinger1969 said:
    How could a planchet have a flaw -- isn't it just a raw blank ?

    Simple example: consider a clip. Does a clip sprout into existence on a planchet that was originally flawless?

    All sorts of things can happen to a planchet before it gets struck.

  • Options
    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From the B to the star looks like a lamination crack and from the I down looks like a toning streak.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • Options
    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    @jonathanb said:
    Large strike through > @Insider3 said:

    @jonathanb said:
    Large strike through

    Are you trying to be funny? If you are, it would be nice to see some indication such as a wink. There are lots of new collectors reading these discussions and misinformation is not good.

    THAT SAID, if you really think this is a strike through, please say you are not making a joke and all of us will explain what we see on the coin to come to the conclusion that it is a planchet flaw called a lamination because the surface of the metal is beginning to split away. o:)

    I might be wrong, but I'm not joking. The picture shows a very long narrow area with two clear edges. That is typical of what you get when there is an extra bit of metal on the sheet during the rolling process. The extra metal will get smeared in the direction of the rollers, which if course could end up in any direction on the struck coin.

    The tips of the rolled material would be tapered on either end. You can easily see the tapering towards the top right of the obverse. You can't see tapering on the lower left. That's what you would expect if the smeared metal was larger than the coin -- the rest of the smear might be on the adjacent planchet.

    A slightly different composition on the struck through portion produced a slightly different toning pattern, making it more visible here.

    If there was only one clear edges I'd agree with a lamination. The two clear, narrow, and tapered edges say that something got smeared into the planchet stock during the rolling process, then remained embedded into the planchet until it was eventually struck through.

    Great response! The right edge shows a seam where the metal is peeling away, thus a lamination. Laminations occur due to a flaw in the planchet.

  • Options
    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    @GoldFinger1969 said:
    How could a planchet have a flaw -- isn't it just a raw blank ?

    Planchets have turned up edges from going thru the upsetting mill as a flat blank. Planchets are fed into the press, not blanks. It is like the "penny" vs "Cent" thing. We all know what we are talking about yet one usage is correct.

  • Options
    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    From the B to the star looks like a lamination crack and from the I down looks like a toning streak.

    I suspect that using 10X you would see that the left side is split but better attached to the coin. The toning developed the way it did because of that. Remember, everything I write is an opinion. ;)

  • Options
    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,640 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Flaw in minting process. Pass

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • Options

    It does not appear to be split along that second line, nor from the edges does it appear like extraneous material that is delaminating. I may need to get a coin magnifier that takes pics as it's difficult with my phone to capture that level of detail.

    Dan
    "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

    - Abraham Lincoln
  • Options
    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AllLincolns said:
    It does not appear to be split along that second line, nor from the edges does it appear like extraneous material that is delaminating. I may need to get a coin magnifier that takes pics as it's difficult with my phone to capture that level of detail.

    .
    Your photos appear to be fairly good. Here are some enlargements but didn't know what to focus on. The last one is getting maxed out.
    .


    .


    .

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

  • Options
    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    @AllLincolns said:
    It does not appear to be split along that second line, nor from the edges does it appear like extraneous material that is delaminating. I may need to get a coin magnifier that takes pics as it's difficult with my phone to capture that level of detail.

    Look at the "LIB"

  • Options
    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2024 1:15PM

    @lilolme said:

    @AllLincolns said:
    It does not appear to be split along that second line, nor from the edges does it appear like extraneous material that is delaminating. I may need to get a coin magnifier that takes pics as it's difficult with my phone to capture that level of detail.

    .
    Your photos appear to be fairly good. Here are some enlargements but didn't know what to focus on. The last one is getting maxed out.
    ...

    This picture is really intriguing. The color progression right of the obvious fissure is the same as the one on the left. We know from observing the "pull-away" toning effect that metal flow affects toning and can do so rather abruptly. An edge to the impurities just below the surface would definitely affect metal flow there. Perhaps the edge is marking the extent of the impurities within the planchet. X-ray this bad boy!

  • Options

    So here are some additional pics, not sure it helps to clarify or not....








    Dan
    "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

    - Abraham Lincoln

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file