Are you kidding? Things happen and people can't use them? You have 365 days to use them. Use them right away or take chances that you'll use them in the last month. It's your decision, your gamble. If people don't think they can use the vouchers in time, then perhaps they should get Silver subscriptions. All of the terms and conditions are known up front. Sometimes when you gamble you lose.
To take it further. Taxes must be paid by Apr 15, otherwise there is a penalty. Now you can do your taxes early and eliminate risk or you can wait until April 15 and hope that nothing prevents you from getting that check in the mail. Should the IRS have pity on those who procrastinated?
Life is complex, @UtahCoin just proved that. Empathy makes for good buisness.
@spacehayduke said:
Here is my take, the vouchers should be good until you use them. 1 year, 20 years, 50 years, period, until you pass away. I ate 5 vouchers myself back in the day bc I could not find 5 coins to send them in a year, so poof. Seems a way to max out profit to me. Reason 4 why I did not renew this year. CACG has no membership fee, it is strictly pay as you go, I like that...................
Except the company has to carry them a a liability on their books
Golly, life is tough for the poor company, can't organize their books to be nice to folks. Sheesh............
@spacehayduke said:
Here is my take, the vouchers should be good until you use them. 1 year, 20 years, 50 years, period, until you pass away. I ate 5 vouchers myself back in the day bc I could not find 5 coins to send them in a year, so poof. Seems a way to max out profit to me. Reason 4 why I did not renew this year. CACG has no membership fee, it is strictly pay as you go, I like that...................
Except the company has to carry them a a liability on their books
Golly, life is tough for the poor company, can't organize their books to be nice to folks. Sheesh............
It’s the same reason why employee vacation days don’t roll over, or only partially roll over.
The large liability on the books shows a bad risk to Wall Street.
Just ask the airline companies about all those banked air miles in people’s accounts.
@spacehayduke said:
Here is my take, the vouchers should be good until you use them. 1 year, 20 years, 50 years, period, until you pass away. I ate 5 vouchers myself back in the day bc I could not find 5 coins to send them in a year, so poof. Seems a way to max out profit to me. Reason 4 why I did not renew this year. CACG has no membership fee, it is strictly pay as you go, I like that...................
Except the company has to carry them a a liability on their books
Golly, life is tough for the poor company, can't organize their books to be nice to folks. Sheesh............
You’re talking about what would be nice. But like it or not, there are other considerations and the choice by companies not to do things like that doesn’t make them inherently bad or evil.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You’re talking about what would be nice. But like it or not, there are other considerations and the choice by companies not to do things like that doesn’t make them inherently bad or evil.
If someone has a membership in order to entice folks to be part of their system, and then gives out vouchers, which the member pays for, that not only benefit the company, but benefit the member, those vouchers should be good until used. Life can get in the way of things even with long deadlines. A company has a chance to make this person's complex life better, and make them even more committed to their company with a 'feel good' moment.
Also, the member paid for the service, if they don't get the service, then it is just another way to profit for the company on the back of the member. Why would any company want to do that and lose a member? This is partly why I did not renew. I got vouchers, then found out the coins I want to submit were ineligible. As NJCoin noted, one can vote with their feet.
The post above that you must pay your taxes by April 15 each year as an analogy? Uh no, you don't have to pay your taxes at the deadline, there are plenty of ways to extend it.
@spacehayduke said:
Here is my take, the vouchers should be good until you use them. 1 year, 20 years, 50 years, period, until you pass away. I ate 5 vouchers myself back in the day bc I could not find 5 coins to send them in a year, so poof. Seems a way to max out profit to me. Reason 4 why I did not renew this year. CACG has no membership fee, it is strictly pay as you go, I like that...................
Except the company has to carry them a a liability on their books
Golly, life is tough for the poor company, can't organize their books to be nice to folks. Sheesh............
You’re talking about what would be nice. But like it or not, there are other considerations and the choice by companies not to do things like that doesn’t make them inherently bad or evil.
Isn’t it precisely our choices in life and how we treat others that determine whether we are good or bad?
Your incredible reputation in our hobby is because you have chosen to treat people so well over many years!
@spacehayduke said:
Here is my take, the vouchers should be good until you use them. 1 year, 20 years, 50 years, period, until you pass away. I ate 5 vouchers myself back in the day bc I could not find 5 coins to send them in a year, so poof. Seems a way to max out profit to me. Reason 4 why I did not renew this year. CACG has no membership fee, it is strictly pay as you go, I like that...................
Except the company has to carry them a a liability on their books
Golly, life is tough for the poor company, can't organize their books to be nice to folks. Sheesh............
You’re talking about what would be nice. But like it or not, there are other considerations and the choice by companies not to do things like that doesn’t make them inherently bad or evil.
Isn’t it precisely our choices in life and how we treat others that determine whether we are good or bad?
Your incredible reputation in our hobby is because you have chosen to treat people so well over many years!
Thank you - that was a very nice thing to say and I don’t take it lightly.
I think our choices in life and how we treat others can indicate all sorts of things about us, including whether we are “good” or “bad”. But, while it would have been a nice thing for PCGS to have granted an extension, I still don’t think their refusal made them a “bad” company.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Tomthemailcarrier said:
Utah coin has had a tough go of things lately. Sometimes life can be a challenge. While I sympathize with his complaint I also understand PCGS point of view.
I have a solution in mind. Together we could gift Utahcoin the cost of a voucher. I’d kick in $20 to get things started. It’s not a perfect solution but it is helping out a long standing forum member. What do others think?
I'm not in love with it because I think @UtahCoin's point is one of principle, agree with him or not. As is PCGS's. Again, agree with them or not.
Your suggestion turns it into a charity drive, which I would find a little insulting, as though 8 submissions are analogous to a necessity like food or shelter, and @UtahCoin needs a helping hand from us due to a rough patch and an inability to afford coin grading.
Or, even worse, that you are now attempting to publicly shame our host by saying you, as a customer, do not respect the way they choose to run their business, and that maybe they can't part with 8 submissions, but you'll spring for half of one, and are now soliciting 15 people to join you to make @UtahCoin whole and set the world right. If it was my sandbox, I'd pull that poll down and tell you to conduct your charity drives elsewhere.
A little well-placed charity is fine in the appropriate circumstances, but in this particular case I got the impression that it was more about the principle.
@spacehayduke said:
Here is my take, the vouchers should be good until you use them. 1 year, 20 years, 50 years, period, until you pass away. I ate 5 vouchers myself back in the day bc I could not find 5 coins to send them in a year, so poof. Seems a way to max out profit to me. Reason 4 why I did not renew this year. CACG has no membership fee, it is strictly pay as you go, I like that...................
Except the company has to carry them a a liability on their books
Golly, life is tough for the poor company, can't organize their books to be nice to folks. Sheesh............
If they NEVER expired, as was suggested, they could end up carrying millions in liabilities on the bike. And it's not just a book entry, it changes their capital position.
If someone has a membership in order to entice folks to be part of their system, and then gives out vouchers, which the member pays for, that not only benefit the company, but benefit the member, those vouchers should be good until used. Life can get in the way of things even with long deadlines. A company has a chance to make this person's complex life better, and make them even more committed to their company with a 'feel good' moment.
"Life gets in the way?" We all have 365 days to use our vouchers. That is ample time to allow for "life getting in the way."
Also, the member paid for the service, if they don't get the service, then it is just another way to profit for the company on the back of the member. Why would any company want to do that and lose a member? This is partly why I did not renew. I got vouchers, then found out the coins I want to submit were ineligible. As NJCoin noted, one can vote with their feet.
The member was also fully aware of the terms, that they expired in 365 days, and they didn't take precaution to eliminate or reduce the possibility of not using the voucher by using them earlier or by getting a subscription that didn't come with a voucher. Members who wait until the last minute are gambling. In this case, the gambler lost.
The post above that you must pay your taxes by April 15 each year as an analogy? Uh no, you don't have to pay your taxes at the deadline, there are plenty of ways to extend it.
Actually, you have to pay your personal tax liability by Apr 15. You can get an extension on filing the return though. That's two separate things. If you file with an extension and end up owing there is a penalty.
My wife forgot that she had a free night privilege on both of her Marriott credit cards (Visa and Amex). She lost 10 total free nights over the past 5 years worth around $2,500-$3,000 (but of course we paid the 10 annual membership fees). We called the credit cards and Marriott to ask if there was anything they could do about this. The answer from everyone was a flat out “no”. Not even on the 2 free nights that had expired just a week or two before our call! Are Marriott, Visa and AMEX all “bad” companies? We “moved on” very quickly after our request was denied. In a sense, it was refreshing that, for once, the wife messed up and not me, because everyone knows that after 30+ years of marriage the husband is always wrong! Perhaps even after a year of marriage!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
My wife forgot that she had a free night privilege on both of her Marriott credit cards (Visa and Amex). She lost 10 total free nights over the past 5 years worth around $2,500-$3,000 (but of course we paid the 10 annual membership fees). We called the credit cards and Marriott to ask if there was anything they could do about this. The answer from everyone was a flat out “no”. Not even on the 2 free nights that had expired just a week or two before our call! Are Marriott, Visa and AMEX all “bad” companies? We “moved on” very quickly after our request was denied. In a sense, it was refreshing that, for once, the wife messed up and not me, because everyone knows that after 30+ years of marriage the husband is always wrong! Perhaps even after a year of marriage!
Wondercoin
Are you equivocating equating 5 years of simple forgetfulness with the OP’s accident?
My wife forgot that she had a free night privilege on both of her Marriott credit cards (Visa and Amex). She lost 10 total free nights over the past 5 years worth around $2,500-$3,000 (but of course we paid the 10 annual membership fees). We called the credit cards and Marriott to ask if there was anything they could do about this. The answer from everyone was a flat out “no”. Not even on the 2 free nights that had expired just a week or two before our call! Are Marriott, Visa and AMEX all “bad” companies? We “moved on” very quickly after our request was denied. In a sense, it was refreshing that, for once, the wife messed up and not me, because everyone knows that after 30+ years of marriage the husband is always wrong! Perhaps even after a year of marriage!
Wondercoin
Are you equivocating 5 years of simple forgetfulness with the OP’s accident?
Looks the same from the corporate side.
We are all sympathetic to his recovery.
However, was the OP physically incapable of filing out a submission form? How would PCGS know. I'm sure I'll get flamed. I understand the PCGS submissions were probably not high on his list of priorities, nor should they have been. But you're asking PCGS to determine the exact extent of his inability versus disinterest in making submissions. From the corporate side, it simply makes sense to stick to the policy as written.
Comments
We in the choir hear you loud and clear...and here's hoping you mend sooner than the docs forecast.
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Life is complex, @UtahCoin just proved that. Empathy makes for good buisness.
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Golly, life is tough for the poor company, can't organize their books to be nice to folks. Sheesh............
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What BryceM said.. and a few others.
Get well soon Utah!
It’s the same reason why employee vacation days don’t roll over, or only partially roll over.
The large liability on the books shows a bad risk to Wall Street.
Just ask the airline companies about all those banked air miles in people’s accounts.
You’re talking about what would be nice. But like it or not, there are other considerations and the choice by companies not to do things like that doesn’t make them inherently bad or evil.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
nevermind.....
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If someone has a membership in order to entice folks to be part of their system, and then gives out vouchers, which the member pays for, that not only benefit the company, but benefit the member, those vouchers should be good until used. Life can get in the way of things even with long deadlines. A company has a chance to make this person's complex life better, and make them even more committed to their company with a 'feel good' moment.
Also, the member paid for the service, if they don't get the service, then it is just another way to profit for the company on the back of the member. Why would any company want to do that and lose a member? This is partly why I did not renew. I got vouchers, then found out the coins I want to submit were ineligible. As NJCoin noted, one can vote with their feet.
The post above that you must pay your taxes by April 15 each year as an analogy? Uh no, you don't have to pay your taxes at the deadline, there are plenty of ways to extend it.
Best, SH
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Never mind
Isn’t it precisely our choices in life and how we treat others that determine whether we are good or bad?
Your incredible reputation in our hobby is because you have chosen to treat people so well over many years!
There is absolutely nothing wrong in politely and respectfully asking for an exception.
There is no obligation to grant it, to explain their reasoning, et al.
If you asked, and they said no, move on. If it bothers you, vote with your feet. Anything else is churlish at best.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Thank you - that was a very nice thing to say and I don’t take it lightly.
I think our choices in life and how we treat others can indicate all sorts of things about us, including whether we are “good” or “bad”. But, while it would have been a nice thing for PCGS to have granted an extension, I still don’t think their refusal made them a “bad” company.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm not in love with it because I think @UtahCoin's point is one of principle, agree with him or not. As is PCGS's. Again, agree with them or not.
Your suggestion turns it into a charity drive, which I would find a little insulting, as though 8 submissions are analogous to a necessity like food or shelter, and @UtahCoin needs a helping hand from us due to a rough patch and an inability to afford coin grading.
Or, even worse, that you are now attempting to publicly shame our host by saying you, as a customer, do not respect the way they choose to run their business, and that maybe they can't part with 8 submissions, but you'll spring for half of one, and are now soliciting 15 people to join you to make @UtahCoin whole and set the world right. If it was my sandbox, I'd pull that poll down and tell you to conduct your charity drives elsewhere.
Noted. I’ve attempted to. No more charity here.
A little well-placed charity is fine in the appropriate circumstances, but in this particular case I got the impression that it was more about the principle.
True charity comes from within- not asking others to do so.
peacockcoins
If they NEVER expired, as was suggested, they could end up carrying millions in liabilities on the bike. And it's not just a book entry, it changes their capital position.
"Life gets in the way?" We all have 365 days to use our vouchers. That is ample time to allow for "life getting in the way."
The member was also fully aware of the terms, that they expired in 365 days, and they didn't take precaution to eliminate or reduce the possibility of not using the voucher by using them earlier or by getting a subscription that didn't come with a voucher. Members who wait until the last minute are gambling. In this case, the gambler lost.
Actually, you have to pay your personal tax liability by Apr 15. You can get an extension on filing the return though. That's two separate things. If you file with an extension and end up owing there is a penalty.
On a somewhat related note…
My wife forgot that she had a free night privilege on both of her Marriott credit cards (Visa and Amex). She lost 10 total free nights over the past 5 years worth around $2,500-$3,000 (but of course we paid the 10 annual membership fees). We called the credit cards and Marriott to ask if there was anything they could do about this. The answer from everyone was a flat out “no”. Not even on the 2 free nights that had expired just a week or two before our call! Are Marriott, Visa and AMEX all “bad” companies? We “moved on” very quickly after our request was denied. In a sense, it was refreshing that, for once, the wife messed up and not me, because everyone knows that after 30+ years of marriage the husband is always wrong! Perhaps even after a year of marriage!
Wondercoin
Are you equivocating equating 5 years of simple forgetfulness with the OP’s accident?
Looks the same from the corporate side.
We are all sympathetic to his recovery.
However, was the OP physically incapable of filing out a submission form? How would PCGS know. I'm sure I'll get flamed. I understand the PCGS submissions were probably not high on his list of priorities, nor should they have been. But you're asking PCGS to determine the exact extent of his inability versus disinterest in making submissions. From the corporate side, it simply makes sense to stick to the policy as written.
JMHO but you should focus on your health and getting better and don't sweat the little things like freebie coin subs.
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