PCGS Customer Service. Am I being unreasonable? Your opinion please.
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UtahCoin
Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭✭✭
First off, I haven't been around much the last couple of years. I'm 71 and slowing down.
Here's the problem. In December I had a pretty bad (non vehicular) accident. Broken bones, surgery, stiches, staples, steel plates and screws. Every year my Collector Club membership expires the first week of January, and every year I send in Coins in December for my 8 freebies (I use to send in a lot more than that during the year). So obviously I didn't get a submission off while I was recovering. I sent a very polite email off to customer service explaining the situation, and asked if they could please extend me a couple of weeks extension. The reply I received was basically a flat no. I then replied and requested that my request be bumped up a level. No response.
My question, am I being unreasonable?
I've always gone out of my way to promote PCGS. Back when Don was president, I even worked with him ordering counterfeit coins and slabs out of China to see if we could help track down who some of the counterfeiters were.
Thanks for your opinions, maybe I just needed to vent. And lastly, the doc's say I should be reasonably back together by May or June.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Comments
Hope you have a speedy recovery......please take it easy for a while......coins can wait.
And no, you are not being unreasonable.
Vent away you are venting to the choir.
Corporate America at its best.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
Welcome back, I remember that smiling face such a cutie....... Sorry for your pains, Sorry pcgs is also adding to that pain.
"I've always gone out of my way to promote PCGS. Back when Don was president, I even worked with him ordering counterfeit coins and slabs out of China to see if we could help track down who some of the counterfeiters were."
For what ever that may be worth.......................
You are not being unreasonable at all.
Welcome back too. You have been missed.
I wish a full recovery for you and hope you will be as good as new soon.
peacockcoins
@HeatherBoyd Is there anything you can do to help UtahCoin? He's been a member here since 2007 and has always been a positive contributor.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Nearly the same happened to me with the exception, somehow, my old email address became attached to my membership and I didn't even remember it. Everytime I would log in last year to utilize my free submissions it said I did not have a current membership, so when I would contact them, they would say everything is fine you have your free submission and it is unused. So I would try again and still couldn't log in, with the address I have had since the software change and membership most every year with my email address, except last January when they renewed my membership automatically they used my 17 year old email for the membership. Finally in December it was discovered and then Christmas and my membership ended in January. I asked to have the membership extended in order to have time to utilize the free submission and was told an emphatic no. So I rushed my order in just under the wire. Not sure whether to renew or not.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
No, you are not being unreasonable. I don't know what their problem is but in my personal experience it seems their customer service is:
1- Understaffed / overwhelmed.
2- The customer service department is staffed with people who don't understand collectors & how important
the collectors needs are, and what is expected when dealing with their valuable collectibles.
I let my membership expire because I couldn't be bothered anymore.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I think PCGS customer service and more importantly coin collecting is the least of your worries.
At 71 your health is the utmost importance
If it were me I’d wait till May/June or when you’ve fully recovered before to tackle the PCGS issues.
Sorry for your troubles....
You're not being unreasonable.
Cash is King in corporate America.
Disappointed but not surprised by their rejection of your request.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
No, you are not being unreasonable. OTOH, it's probably worth remembering that PCGS is a for-profit, private equity owned business.
12 months is 12 months, not 13. This concept seems pretty clear when it's dealers defending the actions of other dealers, and holding customers to whatever terms they agreed to. Not so much when it's a well liked forum member and a big bad private equity company.
What happened to you sucks, and I wish you a full and speedy recovery. But my takeaway would be to not wait until the last possible minute to do anything, and then count on accommodations and exceptions when "stuff" inevitably happens. Or to think that contributors to the forum, or long term members, deserve special treatment because newcomers' business isn't worth as much.
Bottom line -- yes, it would be nice if they would accommodate you under the circumstances. But it's also understandable why they would want to hold the line, and not open the door to accusations of not applying their terms equally to all. Or to having the free certificates on their books as future liabilities indefinitely by not having any expiration dates at all.
Faced with a similar situation, I would have asked, as you did, but would understand if I received the same response as you. And, TBH, if I found myself rushing every year to send in my 8 coins right before the deadline, I'd seriously question the value of continuing the membership. You could always pick it up again when, or if, you actually had coins you want to submit without being up against a deadline.
No, you're not being unreasonable. You have our support! Welcome back.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Nice to see you around. In fact just yesterday I was wondering where you were as I was looking at some Franklins that I bought from you.
Still happy with them, I might have an upgrade for that 1950 at PCGS right now. Fingers crossed!
Collector, occasional seller
bump down your service to silver - no need to fill order for coupon. Submit what you want when you want.
hope you are recovery well or already back to what you were
Welcome back. I hope that you are feeling better and recovering well.
No, you are not being unreasonable. At the same time, they are also not being unreasonable. That said, I wish they would make the accommodation.
Plates and screws...... sounds awesome to me, but I'm the guy who puts them in. I certainly don't ever want to be on the receiving end of that. Do your therapy. I'm sure they've emphasized that time alone is a significant factor in recovery. If you're in Utah I most likely know the guys who did this to (for) you.
As for the PCGS thing. You are not being unreasonable..... and at the same time, they are not being unreasonable. It would be nice if they would extend your submitting window, but contracts are contracts, and there isn't any real obligation on their part to do so. Taking care of you is one thing, but it sets a precedent, and that could cause them headaches downstream.
One of the things that influenced my decision to sell was the large corporate numismatic machine (TPGs and auction houses, mainly) that is pretty influential. They provide legitimate services, but sometimes corporations forget that without collectors, none of it works. Ultimately, it's individual collectors that pay for it all too. Individually, we aren't big enough to bother with, but collectively, we're the entire hobby.
Welcome back, and get well soon. The older you get the harder it is to mend, it just takes a lot longer but in time I hope you will fully recover.
As for the problem, just write it off, they will get it when people don't renew anymore!
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Companies live and die by their reputations. Treat your customers good and they come back. Treat them bad and they go elsewhere. A little ‘extra’ customer service can pay off in spades and no one would even need to know. Hope you’re up and at it again soon! Cheers!
Hope you have a full and speedy recovery.
Unfortunately, this is another example of why I didn't renew my membership this year.
I agree with every single post above. Heal up fast my friend.
Speedy recovery!
I’ve been fighting PCGS for 4 weeks now to get a refund on my voucher submission. Despite having vouchers available, their system glitched and they charged me for grading anyway. Was promised a refund but then there was a glitch there too. Another promise today and unfortunately I am still waiting.
This is on top of multiple other aggravations over the past couple years including incorrect info from customer service about what coins are accepted (info in writing x2, but too bad, out of luck and money) and a submission that was lost (was made whole on that one).
@NJCoin - a contract is a contract but it goes both ways. Maybe some empathy is in order?
Not an unreasonable ask at all. They extended a voucher for me in the past for a similar circumstance. Hope you are better soon.
Welcome back! Take care of your heath first. I feel the same as every other poster in this thread, you’re not being unreasonable at all. Hopefully those in charge will do the right thing.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I think you're completely reasonable. P.S. Get well soon!
Dave
Welcome back.
I have always enjoyed your forum threads and comments. My best wishes to you on your health and recovery from your accident. Take good care of yourself.
Hopefully someone at PCGS will become aware of this thread and step up to the plate and make things right.
SanctionII
There really is no reason to get the silver membership. If you submit nothing for a whole year, you are basically donating money (which is fine if that is what you want but not necessarily the best for most). Just wait until you are ready to submit and purchase the membership that gives you the needed amount of vouchers.
In the case of the OP, I feel bad too and would want something done but @NJCoin makes a legitimate case of why companies will usually say no. It is unfortunate though-especially when they don't hold up their end of the bargain as in the case of @Project Numismatics
Not unreasonable at all. You are being screwed out of something you paid for. A few months past expiration, maybe. A couple weeks, just honor the certificate.
Sorry to hear about that UtahCoin and hope you're feeling better.
Basically the same thing happened to me a couple years back during the height of the Covid pandemic. I unfortunately caught a pretty bad case at the tail end of my 1-year Platinum membership and the last thing on my mind at that time was submitting coins. My membership expired and I called and asked if they could please extend my 8 vouchers and explained that I had Covid and was given a flat NO by a customer service supervisor. I thought that under the highly unusual circumstances of a once in a hundred year global pandemic they might have a bit of compassion for a long time Platinum member, but that was of course a pipe dream. As the customer service supervisor hung up, I couldn't help but remember the PCGS corporate slogan from years back when David Hall was in change......... "PCGS, Your Friend in the Rare Coin Business"
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Like others who have responded, I wish PCGS had granted the requested extension. However, their refusal to do so certainly didn’t amount to screwing someone out of something they paid for.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Glad to see you post Wes.
Speedy recovery.
And don’t sweat the small stuff. I know it’s a couple hundred but not really worth the worries. In the end it could be more of a loss for them than you
Martin
I spent half of my day dealing with crappy banks and other businesses who fail to honor their promises to the consumer.
Get better first and then hope PCGS will come to their senses.
Example is on Sunday I subscribed to paramount+ to be able to watch the Superbowl on CBS.
I was thinking of keeping paramount+ and paying their monthly subscription fee.
But near the end of the Superbowl overtime Paramount+ stopped telecasting the Superbowl game and cut out to the replay of Face The Nation!
Shades of the famous 1968 Heidi game when I was 14 years old I had to scramble to my ipad to find out what was happening!
This is Corporate stupidity at its best.
I was so incensed I decided to cancel Paramount+ immediately Sunday night. Of course I found out today that Paramount, as the owner of CBS, is struggling and laid off many employees despite a record Superbowl number of viewers.
Reason for not having cable in my NY home is that I have wonderful cable service in FL and did not want to pay for two cable services.
Absolutely! Did I not express that, multiple times, while simply stating reasons why PCGS wouldn't go there? Did I not say, in a similar situation, that I would do the same exact thing as @UtahCoin? Did I not agree "not unreasonable"?
Hey Wes! Glad to see you back and I hope you have a speedy recovery!!
K
Get YouTube TV. You can use it at both residences, or on your phone, iPad, or wherever. Problem solved.
No - you lectured the OP on not waiting to the last minute, accused him of seeking special treatment because he is a longtime customer and ultimately told him that membership might not be for him. All in a condescending manner! If you were trying to empathize, you badly missed the mark.
as a way to mediate, perhaps they would take it with a doctor's note or a re-printed yet still hospital issued bill just so pcgs is not inundated with similar, but phony, requests
do feel better and here's to hoping you aren't looking at long-term pain
edit: you do have a long history with pcgs that can factor in
May 9, 2007
Join Date
Reasonable.
It's not like PCGS _loses_money by honoring your vouchers. You already paid.
As an aside, I can't tell you how many yearly dues I paid before figuring out I was on auto renew. I haven't submitted anything in years.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I’m sorry to read of your painful injuries!
I too don’t think it unreasonable to request an extension of the voucher timeline given the severity of your circumstances. One might hope that they might bend the rules a little bit occasionally, and with discretion, so as not to set an awkward precedent.
Keeping my fingers crossed on that and best wishes for a smooth recovery!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Get well soon @UtahCoin
@Project Numismatics I don't think it's fair to accuse @NJCoin of a lack of empathy. [Although his tone, ss usual, is a little off-putting.] He is simply pointing out the business reality. You think of this as a case of one. It is really a case of 10,000. Just having to respond to annual requests for extensions adds costs. Investigating and granting exemptions adds more cost. As he said, it would be nice if they made an exception, but it is wholly understandable why they would not.
Are you serious? That's a bit of an exaggeration. Those grading vouchers have value and the vast majority are used. In the case of the OP, I think a medical emergency is a valid reason to make an exception.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Sir,
First and foremost let me say you're one tough cookie! That's fabulous.
Obviously I have no idea what happened but considering the damage you state, I love that you say it's age slowing you.
No, you're not being unreasonable. Not in the least. Equally neither is PCGS. You had every right to make the request and even a right to "expect" mutual respect. However the have every right to say "no, these are the rules and everyone has to follow them".
In my opinion one can benefit by remembering that corporate America is a faceless entity. The people that are employed are expected to follow corporate protocol. That's what they're compensated to do. So, just try to remember that it's not "people" saying "no", it's a corporate paradigm. Sadly 99.99% of corporate employees are gong to choose their job over voicing their opinion.
That stated:
There are two kinds of fundamental corporate paradigms. 1) Valuing profits and 2) Valuing customers. Both work...but the latter manufactures genuine staying power through customer loyalty. Sadly the latter has become very rare in America because so many consumers have allowed themselves to be disrespected just to save a dollar or be part of a group.
There's a company called McMaster Carr. They're an industrial supply vendor that was founded in 1901. They're the poster child for unwavering customer respect and service and they generate 1.5B in annual revenue. So "service first" works too.
In my opinion one simply needs to understand which type of corporation one is choosing to deal with and accept it's you going to them.
Wishing you a fast and full recovery!
The squeaky wheel gets the oil; I hope that they address your request under the traumatic circumstances. Exceptions should be made in such conditions.
First, I hope you have a speedy and healthy recovery.
Second, I am very surprised by a lot of the responses. I am having a hard time with answering the “unreasonable” question but, if this happened to me, I would not even request an extension.
Joe.
I did not renew with PCGS this year for 3 reasons, one of these was because Customer Service is pretty 'corporate' meaning not so great as the OP has pointed out here. It seems to have taken a downward spin also since it went to being a privately owned company. Probable less CS people.
My view, give someone a break under the circumstances when something like than happens. He already paid for the grading vouchers after all. But no..........
Part of being a good company is also knowing when your 'rules' should be broken. Again he already paid for the vouchers, break the rules PCGS in cases like this. Come on!
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
Not unreasonable to ask but a stretch to think they would agree. Unfortunately, the world is full of grifters and confirming a customer is not one of them is beyond customer services purview. Imagine if word got out that they gave you an extension. Would others not expect the same treatment should they meet one of many possible setbacks in life? It's Pandora's Box.
Happy to hear you're progressing.
USAF veteran 1984-2005
It's not clear to me. Did they receive the submission before your membership expired? I would say that's the requirement. If your membership expires after they receive it they must still perform the services..
Yes, I'm serious. If you set a precedent of extending the deadline for "valid excuses", people will try all kinds of excuses. Weddings, illnesses, deaths in the family, moving, etc.
I have a class of 150 students. Every exam, at least a dozen are missing and at least half of those ask for a make-up AFTER they've already missed the exam. I'm pretty sure you will see similar statistics when $300 worth of submissions are involved.
It's never just one. The precedent created will inevitably lead to more and more requests for exception.
Hope you are doing well and the health issues are in the rear view mirror. All things considered, this is an easy decision to offer a mutually agreeable extension for reasons that are obvious. Best wishes for a timely recovery... the coins and the submissions can wait.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Wasn’t that Bowers and Merena?
Every exam, at least a dozen are missing and at least half of those ask for a make-up AFTER they've already missed the exam. I'm pretty sure you will see similar statistics when $300 worth of submissions are involved.
>
So, if one of your students was in a really bad traffic accident on the way to school to take your exam and was getting emergency surgery while the exam was taking place, you wouldn't allow her to take a make-up exam because you are afraid of setting a precedent? Really? I think that each decision should be made on a case-by-case basis based on the actual circumstances.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.