1861 3CS Proof or Uncirculated

TrevorTobine1

Hi, all
I bought this from a dealer specializing In 3 cent silver coins. He sold it to me as a proof and I got it PCGS graded. It came back as an MS-63 and not a proof. I want to get some opinions on this coin. The first thing I want some opinions on is it a proof or not? The second thing is should I send it back to PCGS to try and get a proof? A third is should I Crack it out or should I do a regrade?

Thank you,
Trevor Tobine

asheland

Looking at the picture before reading anything, I judged it to be mint state.

I’m not an expert on these by any means, but it looks like a standard business strike to me. It does have a nice strike, however!

Married2Coins

PCGS said it was MS. I would send it back to the dealer. When he returns it to you let him write a letter with his opinion. Then send it back to PCGS for review. That is a realy well struck coin. I think PCGS would know if it were a Proof. Just my opinion.

yosclimber

If you compare your coin (top in the above array)
to the photos in PCGS CoinFact for PR and PR Cam (bottom in the above array),
all the proof photos there have shallow top and bottom arrow feathers,
while your coin does not.
So your coin is not a die match to all those proof examples.

I am assuming the proofs shown were struck with enough die pressure and short die spacing
so that the arrow feather portion of the die is fully shown on the proof coins.

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1861-3cs/3710

MFeld

The coin doesn't look like a Proof to me.

BillJones

Not a Proof. Low mintage and early die state coins can resemble Proofs.

I had a big time dealer asking a Proof price for gold dollar that was in a Mint State holder. My response was resubmit the coin to get it into a Proof holder, and I’ll consider it. Why should I assume all of the regrading charges and the risk that doesn’t come back as a Proof?

BStrauss3

All of the 1,000 proofs were struck (likely from a single die) on a single day and before any of the business strikes (which likely used the same die).

sellitstore

@BillJones said:
Not a Proof. Low mintage and early die state coins can resemble Proofs.

I had a big time dealer asking a Proof price for gold dollar that was in a Mint State holder. My response was resubmit the coin to get it into a Proof holder, and I’ll consider it. Why should I assume all of the regrading charges and the risk that doesn’t come back as a Proof?

I believe that with the late low mintage gold dollars that after striking the proofs, the mint used the same dies for business strikes, with each subsequent strike exhibiting less and less mirror surface. Some of these issues seem to have gradually morphed from proofs to business strikes rather than experiencing a sharp cut off.

The O/P coin looks like a sharp, clean business strike to me but I would like to see in hand to be sure.

BillJones

This 1880 gold dollar is a business strike

This 1883 gold dollar is a Proof.

Back in the 1960s, '70s and early '80s, before slabbing, there was a lot of confusion about that.

BStrauss3

Flynn and Zack says 15 obverse dies and 16 reverse dies were used. Or around 30-35k strikes per die.

JW77

Dealer sold it to you as a proof. Trust PCGS' opinion, it's MS. Take the graded slabbed coin back to your dealer and request a refund. Any respectable dealer will accommodate you.