for the resident Pats fans

galaxy27

you've been put through hell post-Brady. think back to all of the Newton, Zappe and Jones games you've unfortunately been subjected to the past few seasons

now, watch this

if Caleb Williams & Drake Maye go 1 & 2, this could should be your new quarterback for years to come

ready for the draft to get here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pCzN438zNQ

perkdog

I'd be excited to get Daniels, the kid has talent and I love his size and ability to run

I am looking forward to seeing how the draft plays out

Awesome highlight reel!!!

stevek

Pasted:

"Overall, Daniels has an exciting floor as a prospect. He is a veteran-like presence in the pocket, and he's far and away the best athlete in the class at the position. Daniels' average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy may limit his ceiling, but it's hard to imagine him totally flaming out."

I dunno. This "Daniels' average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy" isn't exactly a vote of confidence for a high draft pick, or really any round draft pick. Also those long runs in the video simply ain't gonna happen in the NFL for the most part.

But who knows? We shall see.

Basebal21

@stevek said:
Pasted:

"Overall, Daniels has an exciting floor as a prospect. He is a veteran-like presence in the pocket, and he's far and away the best athlete in the class at the position. Daniels' average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy may limit his ceiling, but it's hard to imagine him totally flaming out."

I dunno. This "Daniels' average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy" isn't exactly a vote of confidence for a high draft pick, or really any round draft pick. Also those long runs in the video simply ain't gonna happen in the NFL for the most part.

But who knows? We shall see.

Anyone grading him with average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy either didnt watch him play or stopped watching him after his first year at Arizona State. He doesnt have an absolute cannon like Milton where he can flick his wrist and the balls 60 yards down field (Milton big accuracy issues), but Daniels is rated above average in both things.

For his sake I hope he doesnt go to the Pats and goes somewhere that actually has some offensive weapons. At the very least I hope they sit him for a year if he does go to the Pats and wait for another draft to get more pieces around instead of just throwing him to the wolves like Carolina did with Young

There is a legitimate chance he may not be there at 3 though

stevek

@Basebal21 said:

@stevek said:
Pasted:

"Overall, Daniels has an exciting floor as a prospect. He is a veteran-like presence in the pocket, and he's far and away the best athlete in the class at the position. Daniels' average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy may limit his ceiling, but it's hard to imagine him totally flaming out."

I dunno. This "Daniels' average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy" isn't exactly a vote of confidence for a high draft pick, or really any round draft pick. Also those long runs in the video simply ain't gonna happen in the NFL for the most part.

But who knows? We shall see.

Anyone grading him with average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy either didnt watch him play or stopped watching him after his first year at Arizona State. He doesnt have an absolute cannon like Milton where he can flick his wrist and the balls 60 yards down field (Milton big accuracy issues), but Daniels is rated above average in both things.

For his sake I hope he doesnt go to the Pats and goes somewhere that actually has some offensive weapons. At the very least I hope they sit him for a year if he does go to the Pats and wait for another draft to get more pieces around instead of just throwing him to the wolves like Carolina did with Young

There is a legitimate chance he may not be there at 3 though

I never previously watched him. Frankly I wasn't that impressed with the video. I don't want to see countless running highlights that simply aren't going to happen against the much faster and more efficient tacklers in the NFL. I would prefer to see more highlights of his pocket passing skills, and accuracy throwing in tight coverage. IE the realities of being a successful NFL quarterback.

Most of the passing plays that I saw on the video were simply post and flag patterns whereby his receivers just outran the defenders. That's fine, but it's not nearly good enough if that's all he can do. NFL schemes would defend for that, and if he's a one trick pony, the opponent will easily shut him down.

As far as the message pasted, I googled his name and 2024 NFL draft, and that's the first quote that popped up. I normally spend more time following the NFL draft a few weeks leading up to it. I don't watch many college football games other than Penn State and a few bowl games, etc.

Basebal21

@stevek said:

@Basebal21 said:

@stevek said:
Pasted:

"Overall, Daniels has an exciting floor as a prospect. He is a veteran-like presence in the pocket, and he's far and away the best athlete in the class at the position. Daniels' average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy may limit his ceiling, but it's hard to imagine him totally flaming out."

I dunno. This "Daniels' average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy" isn't exactly a vote of confidence for a high draft pick, or really any round draft pick. Also those long runs in the video simply ain't gonna happen in the NFL for the most part.

But who knows? We shall see.

Anyone grading him with average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy either didnt watch him play or stopped watching him after his first year at Arizona State. He doesnt have an absolute cannon like Milton where he can flick his wrist and the balls 60 yards down field (Milton big accuracy issues), but Daniels is rated above average in both things.

For his sake I hope he doesnt go to the Pats and goes somewhere that actually has some offensive weapons. At the very least I hope they sit him for a year if he does go to the Pats and wait for another draft to get more pieces around instead of just throwing him to the wolves like Carolina did with Young

There is a legitimate chance he may not be there at 3 though

I never previously watched him. Frankly I wasn't that impressed with the video. I don't want to see countless running highlights that simply aren't going to happen against the much faster and more efficient tacklers in the NFL. I would prefer to see more highlights of his pocket passing skills, and accuracy throwing in tight coverage. IE the realities of being a successful NFL quarterback.

Most of the passing plays that I saw on the video were simply post and flag patterns whereby his receivers just outran the defenders. That's fine, but it's not nearly good enough if that's all he can do. NFL schemes would defend for that, and if he's a one trick pony, the opponent will easily shut him down.

As far as the message pasted, I googled his name and 2024 NFL draft, and that's the first quote that popped up. I normally spend more time following the NFL draft a few weeks leading up to it. I don't watch many college football games other than Penn State and a few bowl games, etc.

Daniels isnt a one trick pony by any means. Hes a top passer with speed that will opportunistically run. He lead the nation with 8.4 yards a carry and was a top 17 rusher in the power conferences if thats all you looked at. He was less than 30 yards behind Judkins, less than a 100 behind Corum on far fewer runs.

Naders is a first rounder no doubt that was 2nd in yards and Thomas also another first round talent that lead the nation in TD catches, but Daniels was a major part of it. You had to pay attention to him and change coverages otherwise he would just run it.

The concern with Daniels is that he doesnt slide enough. He takes some hits that just arent worth it trying to do to much risking injury. He can run and pass and do both very well.

Biggest reason why QBs end up a bust in the NFL is that they end up on a team that has WRs that cannot get open or any separation and a hard headed OC that says this is how we do it instead of what are you good at and we will work around that like the Texans did

stevek

@Basebal21 said:

@stevek said:

@Basebal21 said:

@stevek said:
Pasted:

"Overall, Daniels has an exciting floor as a prospect. He is a veteran-like presence in the pocket, and he's far and away the best athlete in the class at the position. Daniels' average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy may limit his ceiling, but it's hard to imagine him totally flaming out."

I dunno. This "Daniels' average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy" isn't exactly a vote of confidence for a high draft pick, or really any round draft pick. Also those long runs in the video simply ain't gonna happen in the NFL for the most part.

But who knows? We shall see.

Anyone grading him with average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy either didnt watch him play or stopped watching him after his first year at Arizona State. He doesnt have an absolute cannon like Milton where he can flick his wrist and the balls 60 yards down field (Milton big accuracy issues), but Daniels is rated above average in both things.

For his sake I hope he doesnt go to the Pats and goes somewhere that actually has some offensive weapons. At the very least I hope they sit him for a year if he does go to the Pats and wait for another draft to get more pieces around instead of just throwing him to the wolves like Carolina did with Young

There is a legitimate chance he may not be there at 3 though

I never previously watched him. Frankly I wasn't that impressed with the video. I don't want to see countless running highlights that simply aren't going to happen against the much faster and more efficient tacklers in the NFL. I would prefer to see more highlights of his pocket passing skills, and accuracy throwing in tight coverage. IE the realities of being a successful NFL quarterback.

Most of the passing plays that I saw on the video were simply post and flag patterns whereby his receivers just outran the defenders. That's fine, but it's not nearly good enough if that's all he can do. NFL schemes would defend for that, and if he's a one trick pony, the opponent will easily shut him down.

As far as the message pasted, I googled his name and 2024 NFL draft, and that's the first quote that popped up. I normally spend more time following the NFL draft a few weeks leading up to it. I don't watch many college football games other than Penn State and a few bowl games, etc.

Daniels isnt a one trick pony by any means. Hes a top passer with speed that will opportunistically run. He lead the nation with 8.4 yards a carry and was a top 17 rusher in the power conferences if thats all you looked at. He was less than 30 yards behind Judkins, less than a 100 behind Corum on far fewer runs.

Naders is a first rounder no doubt that was 2nd in yards and Thomas also another first round talent that lead the nation in TD catches, but Daniels was a major part of it. You had to pay attention to him and change coverages otherwise he would just run it.

The concern with Daniels is that he doesnt slide enough. He takes some hits that just arent worth it trying to do to much risking injury. He can run and pass and do both very well.

Biggest reason why QBs end up a bust in the NFL is that they end up on a team that has WRs that cannot get open or any separation and a hard headed OC that says this is how we do it instead of what are you good at and we will work around that like the Texans did

Well we shall see where he's drafted, and how he plays next season.

In my view there's a number of red flags. I've seen over the years a lot of "can't miss" QB's just like him that do miss. Not that drafting QB's is any type of science anyway.

That being said, show me a pocket passer who can throw accurately in coverage, who doesn't get happy feet, and jumps right up after a hard hit, and to me that's a prerequisite for a high draft choice QB.

Basebal21

@stevek said:

@Basebal21 said:

@stevek said:

@Basebal21 said:

@stevek said:
Pasted:

"Overall, Daniels has an exciting floor as a prospect. He is a veteran-like presence in the pocket, and he's far and away the best athlete in the class at the position. Daniels' average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy may limit his ceiling, but it's hard to imagine him totally flaming out."

I dunno. This "Daniels' average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy" isn't exactly a vote of confidence for a high draft pick, or really any round draft pick. Also those long runs in the video simply ain't gonna happen in the NFL for the most part.

But who knows? We shall see.

Anyone grading him with average arm talent and inconsistent accuracy either didnt watch him play or stopped watching him after his first year at Arizona State. He doesnt have an absolute cannon like Milton where he can flick his wrist and the balls 60 yards down field (Milton big accuracy issues), but Daniels is rated above average in both things.

For his sake I hope he doesnt go to the Pats and goes somewhere that actually has some offensive weapons. At the very least I hope they sit him for a year if he does go to the Pats and wait for another draft to get more pieces around instead of just throwing him to the wolves like Carolina did with Young

There is a legitimate chance he may not be there at 3 though

I never previously watched him. Frankly I wasn't that impressed with the video. I don't want to see countless running highlights that simply aren't going to happen against the much faster and more efficient tacklers in the NFL. I would prefer to see more highlights of his pocket passing skills, and accuracy throwing in tight coverage. IE the realities of being a successful NFL quarterback.

Most of the passing plays that I saw on the video were simply post and flag patterns whereby his receivers just outran the defenders. That's fine, but it's not nearly good enough if that's all he can do. NFL schemes would defend for that, and if he's a one trick pony, the opponent will easily shut him down.

As far as the message pasted, I googled his name and 2024 NFL draft, and that's the first quote that popped up. I normally spend more time following the NFL draft a few weeks leading up to it. I don't watch many college football games other than Penn State and a few bowl games, etc.

Daniels isnt a one trick pony by any means. Hes a top passer with speed that will opportunistically run. He lead the nation with 8.4 yards a carry and was a top 17 rusher in the power conferences if thats all you looked at. He was less than 30 yards behind Judkins, less than a 100 behind Corum on far fewer runs.

Naders is a first rounder no doubt that was 2nd in yards and Thomas also another first round talent that lead the nation in TD catches, but Daniels was a major part of it. You had to pay attention to him and change coverages otherwise he would just run it.

The concern with Daniels is that he doesnt slide enough. He takes some hits that just arent worth it trying to do to much risking injury. He can run and pass and do both very well.

Biggest reason why QBs end up a bust in the NFL is that they end up on a team that has WRs that cannot get open or any separation and a hard headed OC that says this is how we do it instead of what are you good at and we will work around that like the Texans did

Well we shall see where he's drafted, and how he plays next season.

In my view there's a number of red flags. I've seen over the years a lot of "can't miss" QB's just like him that do miss. Not that drafting QB's is any type of science anyway.

That being said, show me a pocket passer who can throw accurately in coverage, who doesn't get happy feet, and jumps right up after a hard hit, and to me that's a prerequisite for a high draft choice QB.

QB is by far and away the position that misses the most whether it be college or pro. Daniels fits your prerequisite for a highly drafted QB.

He will almost certainly go high in the draft. I dont like the chances of any of the QBs if they go to the Pats and are put in a starting role immediately. There will be some top WRs still at the top of the 2nd round which would help, but with the Pats current offense I think they will need two drafts maybe even 3 to rebuild the lack of offensive talent. Theyve ignored offense in the draft or missed when they did try it for too many years

erikthredd

Its going to be interesting to see if NE goes with a mobile QB like Daniels that could get out in run. We saw what Cam looked like a few years back but he was not a very good passer at that point.
NE just hired former Browns OC Alex Van Pelt to run their offense. I'm not too familiar with AVP,or Daniels for that matter, but it seems like he would want someone similar to Deshaun Watson running his offense. I still standby my opinion that NE needs to also grab a starting WR & LT with their other top two picks.

I'd also like to see them go after some of these targets in free agency...
WR: Mike Evans,Tee Higgins,Calvin Ridley,Michael Pittman Jr
RB: Saquon Barkley,Derrick Henry, re-sign Zeke Elliott
TE: Noah Fant,Dalton Schultz, re-sign Hunter Henry

perkdog

@erikthredd said:
Its going to be interesting to see if NE goes with a mobile QB like Daniels that could get out in run. We saw what Cam looked like a few years back but he was not a very good passer at that point.
NE just hired former Browns OC Alex Van Pelt to run their offense. I'm not too familiar with AVP,or Daniels for that matter, but it seems like he would want someone similar to Deshaun Watson running his offense. I still standby my opinion that NE needs to also grab a starting WR & LT with their other top two picks.

I'd also like to see them go after some of these targets in free agency...
WR: Mike Evans,Tee Higgins,Calvin Ridley,Michael Pittman Jr
RB: Saquon Barkley,Derrick Henry, re-sign Zeke Elliott
TE: Noah Fant,Dalton Schultz, re-sign Hunter Henry

Ridley, Barkley and Shultz/Henry would be my Christmas List

erikthredd

@perkdog said:

@erikthredd said:
Its going to be interesting to see if NE goes with a mobile QB like Daniels that could get out in run. We saw what Cam looked like a few years back but he was not a very good passer at that point.
NE just hired former Browns OC Alex Van Pelt to run their offense. I'm not too familiar with AVP,or Daniels for that matter, but it seems like he would want someone similar to Deshaun Watson running his offense. I still standby my opinion that NE needs to also grab a starting WR & LT with their other top two picks.

I'd also like to see them go after some of these targets in free agency...
WR: Mike Evans,Tee Higgins,Calvin Ridley,Michael Pittman Jr
RB: Saquon Barkley,Derrick Henry, re-sign Zeke Elliott
TE: Noah Fant,Dalton Schultz, re-sign Hunter Henry

Ridley, Barkley and Shultz/Henry would be my Christmas List

i'd be more than happy with that scenario then also re-sign Zeke to give us three solid RBs to split the carries.

I'm also still hopeful they find a way to bring back Kyle Dugger & Michael Onwenu too although I did read somewhere that Onwenu wasn't too happy by the end of the season and maybe looking to get out of NE. Who knows if that has changed with their new coaching staff taking over?

Thankfully BB stacked their defense in recent years so this 2024 roster shouldn't have many holes to fill. Linebacker seems like one with Jennings,Uche & Wilson all heading to free agency and maybe some depth at Corner Back/Safety with Mills,Bryant,Dugger,Davis & Bledsoe all FA as well. Dugger & Uche seem like the only players from that list who might get a decent contract.

galaxy27

strictly based on what i've observed the past few seasons, if i was a NE fan i'd want a heavy dose of athleticism injected into the roster, first and foremost. i just couldn't believe how vanilla, boring and slow they had become under Belichick.

a great place to start would be a dual-threat QB like Daniels imo. and if he has a receiver like Evans to play pitch-n-catch with, his progress will be expedited. just don't draft him and then leave the cupboard bare like the Panthers did to Young.........you run the risk of seriously retarding his growth before his NFL career even gets off the ground

in other words, go get some freaking ballers

erikthredd

@galaxy27 said:
strictly based on what i've observed the past few seasons, if i was a NE fan i'd want a heavy dose of athleticism injected into the roster, first and foremost. i just couldn't believe how vanilla, boring and slow they had become under Belichick.

a great place to start would be a dual-threat QB like Daniels imo. and if he has a receiver like Evans to play pitch-n-catch with, his progress will be expedited. just don't draft him and then leave the cupboard bare like the Panthers did to Young.........you run the risk of seriously retarding his growth before his NFL career even gets off the ground

in other words, go get some freaking ballers

If there ever was a time for the Pats front office to go out and get some real playmakers,during these next few months would be it. They're currently have roughly 69M in cap space which could easily get to 80-90M with some roster cuts and they own a high pick in every round.

The one major question in NE right now is,who's going to eventually be hired as GM? Reports are that decision won't be made until after free agency then the draft and for now they're going with Matt Groh & Eliot Wolf,two longtime NE personel guys. It will be interesting to see who it actually is making the FA/Draft decisions over the next few months,likely going to be Bob or Jonathan Kraft.
Hopefully they re-watch alot of 2023-24 Pats games to remember how historically bad this offense was.

perkdog

Saving my comments for the new Pats thread

Basebal21

@erikthredd said:
Its going to be interesting to see if NE goes with a mobile QB like Daniels that could get out in run. We saw what Cam looked like a few years back but he was not a very good passer at that point.
NE just hired former Browns OC Alex Van Pelt to run their offense. I'm not too familiar with AVP,or Daniels for that matter, but it seems like he would want someone similar to Deshaun Watson running his offense. I still standby my opinion that NE needs to also grab a starting WR & LT with their other top two picks.

In terms of just the draft they wont be able to get all 3, at least not top ones at all three. QB is the one where they could take a risk in the third round with a guy like Milton if they think they can fix him, He has the strongest arm in the draft and arguably would be the strongest in the NFL and can run, he just has issues with accuracy and timing.

WR there will be a good one left at the top of the second round, LT the elite for sure ones will go in the first but there are 2 that are kind of one that fringe area of that status that may or may not still be there with that 3rd second round pick.

Theyre going to have to make some sort of decision. Id say unless they are going to go crazy in free agency trade down a few spots get some more picks take the LT and WR, gamble on a QB like Milton or Rattler later one and just expect to be drafting high again next year where you could take a QB if there arent signs of hope and actually have things around him giving him a chance for success

bronco2078

@erikthredd said:
Its going to be interesting to see if NE goes with a mobile QB like Daniels that could get out in run. We saw what Cam looked like a few years back but he was not a very good passer at that point.
NE just hired former Browns OC Alex Van Pelt to run their offense. I'm not too familiar with AVP,or Daniels for that matter, but it seems like he would want someone similar to Deshaun Watson running his offense. I still standby my opinion that NE needs to also grab a starting WR & LT with their other top two picks.

I'd also like to see them go after some of these targets in free agency...
WR: Mike Evans,Tee Higgins,Calvin Ridley,Michael Pittman Jr
RB: Saquon Barkley,Derrick Henry, re-sign Zeke Elliott
TE: Noah Fant,Dalton Schultz, re-sign Hunter Henry

i remember that guy , played the piano right?

erikthredd

@Basebal21 said:

@erikthredd said:
Its going to be interesting to see if NE goes with a mobile QB like Daniels that could get out in run. We saw what Cam looked like a few years back but he was not a very good passer at that point.
NE just hired former Browns OC Alex Van Pelt to run their offense. I'm not too familiar with AVP,or Daniels for that matter, but it seems like he would want someone similar to Deshaun Watson running his offense. I still standby my opinion that NE needs to also grab a starting WR & LT with their other top two picks.

In terms of just the draft they wont be able to get all 3, at least not top ones at all three. QB is the one where they could take a risk in the third round with a guy like Milton if they think they can fix him, He has the strongest arm in the draft and arguably would be the strongest in the NFL and can run, he just has issues with accuracy and timing.

WR there will be a good one left at the top of the second round, LT the elite for sure ones will go in the first but there are 2 that are kind of one that fringe area of that status that may or may not still be there with that 3rd second round pick.

Theyre going to have to make some sort of decision. Id say unless they are going to go crazy in free agency trade down a few spots get some more picks take the LT and WR, gamble on a QB like Milton or Rattler later one and just expect to be drafting high again next year where you could take a QB if there arent signs of hope and actually have things around him giving him a chance for success

Last thing that I would want to see is a scenario like your previous comment before this one where they grab a QB at #3, then don't put all the pieces around him.

As far as the Oline goes and who they'll draft,has for years been due to former OL coach Dante Scarnecchia's scouting of college O-linemen. I haven't come across any news on whether he'll still continue on in that same role as a scout for them. He's been in some sort of role in NE since 1982 and he was the guy that turned many less talented Pats Olines into high performing units when he was OL coach.

I think that they could find diamonds in the rough with those picks in the 30-50's. Matt Light was pick 48, Logan Mankins pick 32, Sebastian Vollmer
was pick 58, then you had players like Dan Koppen,Marcus Cannon,Joe Thuney & Shaq Mason in rounds 4-7 (IIRC all of them were former All-Pros at some point) but they need to start with that guy to anchor the LT position first.

I'd be ok seeing them either taking a QB in the later rounds or even just putting it off until the next draft. I'd rather see them draft someone like MHJ then take the best tackle for their system with their next pick and maybe even someone at right tackle or tight end with their 3rd pick.
I mentioned above that the defense doesn't have many holes to fill so seeing whoever is calling the shots go heavy on the offense wouldn't be a bad thing.

That's really the great unknown right now,who will be making those roster decisions? Its 6 weeks until free agency then close to 3 months for the draft so there's bound to be a ton of speculation on what they'll do in both. I do hope that Scarnecchia is still scouting though, for the most part, close to all of his early round recommendations at OL panned out for the team over the years but with a somewhat new regime taking over it remains to be seen if Scar still has a voice in scout meetings.

They're offense was bad last season but just the addition of a legit playmaker at WR1 and a starting left tackle better than Trent Brown could do wonders for whoever is behind center.

Basebal21

@erikthredd said:

@Basebal21 said:

@erikthredd said:
Its going to be interesting to see if NE goes with a mobile QB like Daniels that could get out in run. We saw what Cam looked like a few years back but he was not a very good passer at that point.
NE just hired former Browns OC Alex Van Pelt to run their offense. I'm not too familiar with AVP,or Daniels for that matter, but it seems like he would want someone similar to Deshaun Watson running his offense. I still standby my opinion that NE needs to also grab a starting WR & LT with their other top two picks.

In terms of just the draft they wont be able to get all 3, at least not top ones at all three. QB is the one where they could take a risk in the third round with a guy like Milton if they think they can fix him, He has the strongest arm in the draft and arguably would be the strongest in the NFL and can run, he just has issues with accuracy and timing.

WR there will be a good one left at the top of the second round, LT the elite for sure ones will go in the first but there are 2 that are kind of one that fringe area of that status that may or may not still be there with that 3rd second round pick.

Theyre going to have to make some sort of decision. Id say unless they are going to go crazy in free agency trade down a few spots get some more picks take the LT and WR, gamble on a QB like Milton or Rattler later one and just expect to be drafting high again next year where you could take a QB if there arent signs of hope and actually have things around him giving him a chance for success

Last thing that I would want to see is a scenario like your previous comment before this one where they grab a QB at #3, then don't put all the pieces around him.

As far as the Oline goes and who they'll draft,has for years been due to former OL coach Dante Scarnecchia's scouting of college O-linemen. I haven't come across any news on whether he'll still continue on in that same role as a scout for them. He's been in some sort of role in NE since 1982 and he was the guy that turned many less talented Pats Olines into high performing units when he was OL coach.

I think that they could find diamonds in the rough with those picks in the 30-50's. Matt Light was pick 48, Logan Mankins pick 32, Sebastian Vollmer
was pick 58, then you had players like Dan Koppen,Marcus Cannon,Joe Thuney & Shaq Mason in rounds 4-7 (IIRC all of them were former All-Pros at some point) but they need to start with that guy to anchor the LT position first.

I'd be ok seeing them either taking a QB in the later rounds or even just putting it off until the next draft. I'd rather see them draft someone like MHJ then take the best tackle for their system with their next pick and maybe even someone at right tackle or tight end with their 3rd pick.
I mentioned above that the defense doesn't have many holes to fill so seeing whoever is calling the shots go heavy on the offense wouldn't be a bad thing.

That's really the great unknown right now,who will be making those roster decisions? Its 6 weeks until free agency then close to 3 months for the draft so there's bound to be a ton of speculation on what they'll do in both. I do hope that Scarnecchia is still scouting though, for the most part, close to all of his early round recommendations at OL panned out for the team over the years but with a somewhat new regime taking over it remains to be seen if Scar still has a voice in scout meetings.

They're offense was bad last season but just the addition of a legit playmaker at WR1 and a starting left tackle better than Trent Brown could do wonders for whoever is behind center.

I really dont like seeing QBs get set up to fail either,

With this current draft class I like the chances of getting a serviceable if not good QB later on over a tackle. There are some that will go later that have the size but if theyre going for one I think it would be better to do that first. One of the three best rated ones is a right tackle from Bama and the other two are left tackles from Notre Dame and Penn State. Georgia has one right there too with Mims whose also a right tackle where they are all 6-7 monsters that shouldnt be able to move like they do lol. Theres a few more like the Oregon State RT that will likely be there after the first round but the top LTs will very likely go early.

WR class is loaded some of them will be there in the 2nd and maybe even the 3rd since theres only so many picks and a bunch of top defensive players as well which the Pats should stay away from early for this draft.

QB definitely has some interesting ones that should be there in the 3rd round. Rattler is another who was in Heisman talks as a freshman at Oklahoma and was the preseason Heisman favorite his 2nd year before losing his job to Caleb Williams before transferring to South Carolina. He has games where you wonder why hes on the field, but also games where he looks like he should be the first pick overall and they won some big games when he played like that. He was also the senior bowl MVP

It really just depends on what the plan is and looks like they might not hire a GM until after the draft. If they want a LT they should take one early, a RT they could wait on and a very good WR will be there after the 1st as well.

TE is a little tough since Bowers is by far and away the best. Hes an elite talent that will fall further than he should because hes a TE but would be shocking if he didnt go in the first round. Trading down a few spots could allow a LT and an extra first round pick next year while picking up a WR at the top of the 2nd round and then waiting on a talented QB they think they could fix the issues with after that or wait until next year to go after one once the pieces are in place.

The Bears got a kings ransom last year with their trade down with Carolina and still had a top 10 pick

craig44

I really dont want them to spend big money on a FA RB. I think they can get someone in the draft on rookie money. spend the cap money on athletes and OL

we need speed. you cant teach speed.

Basebal21

RB is worst position to spend big on in free agency but Henry wouldnt be a bad attempt. The problem the Pats will have with free agents is that the veteran FAs will likely be looking to sign with a contender and Pats will have to overpay for them.

erikthredd

I highly doubt any of the best free agent running backs get overpaid on a longterm deal. Just look at Cook & Zeke from this past season and what they signed for. Both players were 27-28yrs old and coming off decent stats from the season before Cook1K+ yards/Zeke 800+yds. Cook signed for 1yr/7M w/NYj and Elliott just a 1yr/3M deal with NE.

Derrick Henry will be a few months short of 31 when the season starts and likely won't be looking at a longterm deal. He is coming off a 1100+/12td season and would probably land a salary close to what Dalvin Cook got from the Jets.

Saquon Barkley on the other hand is 4yrs younger and a proven playmaker catching the ballI could see him landing the better overall contract than what Henry might see but we're still talking RB money in 2024. Unless some team really overpays,not likely, than he's likely looking at a modest contract at best.

Basebal21

Barkley theyll have a lot of competition for. Harbaugh really really wants Barkley on the Chargers

erikthredd

@Basebal21 said:
Barkley theyll have a lot of competition for. Harbaugh really really wants Barkley on the Chargers

He's the only one that I could see land a decent multi-year deal but even then I doubt that it reaches his 2023 salary tag number of 10M. I'd bet that its closer to his original rookie contract of 4yrs/31M.

Basebal21

@erikthredd said:

@Basebal21 said:
Barkley theyll have a lot of competition for. Harbaugh really really wants Barkley on the Chargers

He's the only one that I could see land a decent multi-year deal but even then I doubt that it reaches his 2023 salary tag number of 10M. I'd bet that its closer to his original rookie contract of 4yrs/31M.

Henry will likely get a multi year too. Realistically it doesnt matter and years can be used to reduce cap hits, only thing that really matters is whats guaranteed. Henrys talked a lot about his desire to win on podcasts so Im not sure how realistic his interest in the Pats would be. The one exception would be the Titans who hes very fond of and would like to return as long as the offer is competitive and he would have a significant role.

I think Henry probably either resigns with the Titans or goes somewhere thats expected to be a serious contender.

Unless its going to be a multi year contract I dont really see what the point would be anyways. I dont think anyone realistically expects them to do a complete turnaround and be back in contender status in one offseason

erikthredd

@Basebal21 said:

@erikthredd said:

@Basebal21 said:
Barkley theyll have a lot of competition for. Harbaugh really really wants Barkley on the Chargers

He's the only one that I could see land a decent multi-year deal but even then I doubt that it reaches his 2023 salary tag number of 10M. I'd bet that its closer to his original rookie contract of 4yrs/31M.

Henry will likely get a multi year too. Realistically it doesnt matter and years can be used to reduce cap hits, only thing that really matters is whats guaranteed. Henrys talked a lot about his desire to win on podcasts so Im not sure how realistic his interest in the Pats would be. The one exception would be the Titans who hes very fond of and would like to return as long as the offer is competitive and he would have a significant role.

I think Henry probably either resigns with the Titans or goes somewhere thats expected to be a serious contender.

Unless its going to be a multi year contract I dont really see what the point would be anyways. I dont think anyone realistically expects them to do a complete turnaround and be back in contender status in one offseason

This link ranks all lof the highest current RB contracts and,IIRC, all of the the largest deals were given out by the RB's original team not from a FA signing.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2023/08/11/highest-paid-running-backs-nfl-2023-salary-rankings/70510562007/

I too doubt that NE signs one of the better RBs,my comment above listing them was more wishful thinking than anything else. That being said,with how bad their offense was last season I can see the front office overpaying for some playmakers.

The Pats only have two RBs under contract for 2024 who have actually carried the ball for them in a game,Stevenson (coming off injury) & Harris (has a total of 34 carries in 2 seasons) so they'll need to bring in some RB depth just as badly as the need at Wr.

Bill Belichick is gone and for all we know his replacement might not be interested in bargain basement RBs like Bill did. We'll see soon enough.

Basebal21

@erikthredd said:

@Basebal21 said:

@erikthredd said:

@Basebal21 said:
Barkley theyll have a lot of competition for. Harbaugh really really wants Barkley on the Chargers

He's the only one that I could see land a decent multi-year deal but even then I doubt that it reaches his 2023 salary tag number of 10M. I'd bet that its closer to his original rookie contract of 4yrs/31M.

Henry will likely get a multi year too. Realistically it doesnt matter and years can be used to reduce cap hits, only thing that really matters is whats guaranteed. Henrys talked a lot about his desire to win on podcasts so Im not sure how realistic his interest in the Pats would be. The one exception would be the Titans who hes very fond of and would like to return as long as the offer is competitive and he would have a significant role.

I think Henry probably either resigns with the Titans or goes somewhere thats expected to be a serious contender.

Unless its going to be a multi year contract I dont really see what the point would be anyways. I dont think anyone realistically expects them to do a complete turnaround and be back in contender status in one offseason

This link ranks all lof the highest current RB contracts and,IIRC, all of the the largest deals were given out by the RB's original team not from a FA signing.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2023/08/11/highest-paid-running-backs-nfl-2023-salary-rankings/70510562007/

I too doubt that NE signs one of the better RBs,my comment above listing them was more wishful thinking than anything else. That being said,with how bad their offense was last season I can see the front office overpaying for some playmakers.

The Pats only have two RBs under contract for 2024 who have actually carried the ball for them in a game,Stevenson (coming off injury) & Harris (has a total of 34 carries in 2 seasons) so they'll need to bring in some RB depth just as badly as the need at Wr.

Bill Belichick is gone and for all we know his replacement might not be interested in bargain basement RBs like Bill did. We'll see soon enough.

I just dont think it makes sense for them to do any 1 year deals when realistically that second draft next year is when they should be expecting to be back in the mix again.

This draft also has no less than 10 really good RBs that will be successful if they go to the right systems. Theres a couple big boys, couple elusive pass catchers, couple 5'9 5'10 220 brick house types. The big boy Allen will probably go off the board early, but with the other positions and how RBs are viewed now one if not more will probably be there top of the 4th round and maybe even the 5th.

erikthredd

They're so thin at experienced RBs that they can afford to draft one and sign a FA. That's what I'm expecting them to do and also the same with the WR position. NE has real cap space to spend this offseason so signing a vet or two at the skill positions isn't going to change that.

bronco2078

what is this 1950? go get a running back who is working at wendys cleaning toilets for minimum wage
pay league minimum for 5 or 6 of them , run them to death and fire them if they get hurt

erikthredd

@bronco2078 said:
what is this 1950? go get a running back who is working at wendys cleaning toilets for minimum wage
pay league minimum for 5 or 6 of them , run them to death and fire them if they get hurt

That's exactly what Bill Belichick just did a year ago and they had the 26th ranked rushing offense to go along with the 28th ranked passing offense. Our fanbase has been crying for WRs every chance they get but the RBs were just as bad.

For a team that badly needs high end talent at the QB/WR/T positions, this is probably not the best time to start trading back to accumulate more draft picks like BB has always done.

Basebal21

@erikthredd said:
They're so thin at experienced RBs that they can afford to draft one and sign a FA. That's what I'm expecting them to do and also the same with the WR position. NE has real cap space to spend this offseason so signing a vet or two at the skill positions isn't going to change that.

For sure, it just seems like a waste unless its a for more than one year. Get some veterans on a one year deal that can fill plays, sit a QB for a year if they draft one high, and look towards 2025. I do think any team would be better adding a Henry or Evans (if he can stop dropping balls in the playoffs) but 1 year of them wont really change anything.

erikthredd

@Basebal21 said:

@erikthredd said:
They're so thin at experienced RBs that they can afford to draft one and sign a FA. That's what I'm expecting them to do and also the same with the WR position. NE has real cap space to spend this offseason so signing a vet or two at the skill positions isn't going to change that.

For sure, it just seems like a waste unless its a for more than one year. Get some veterans on a one year deal that can fill plays, sit a QB for a year if they draft one high, and look towards 2025. I do think any team would be better adding a Henry or Evans (if he can stop dropping balls in the playoffs) but 1 year of them wont really change anything.

With a new HC,new OC and more than likely all new positional coaches(on top of a new QB too) I'm expecting an entirely new offensive system/scheme being put in place which probably means all new personnel as well.
Count me in the group that thinks an experienced run game could be a rookie QB's best friend on offense. With their defense being as good as it is,it would make sense to build a strong run game to help keep them in games while that rookie QB develops.

They'll have lots of options to improve the roster and its ok that we don't all agree on the best ways to go about improving the team. We're just fans,this is what we do.

Basebal21

@erikthredd said:

@Basebal21 said:

@erikthredd said:
They're so thin at experienced RBs that they can afford to draft one and sign a FA. That's what I'm expecting them to do and also the same with the WR position. NE has real cap space to spend this offseason so signing a vet or two at the skill positions isn't going to change that.

For sure, it just seems like a waste unless its a for more than one year. Get some veterans on a one year deal that can fill plays, sit a QB for a year if they draft one high, and look towards 2025. I do think any team would be better adding a Henry or Evans (if he can stop dropping balls in the playoffs) but 1 year of them wont really change anything.

With a new HC,new OC and more than likely all new positional coaches(on top of a new QB too) I'm expecting an entirely new offensive system/scheme being put in place which probably means all new personnel as well.
Count me in the group that thinks an experienced run game could be a rookie QB's best friend on offense. With their defense being as good as it is,it would make sense to build a strong run game to help keep them in games while that rookie QB develops.

They'll have lots of options to improve the roster and its ok that we don't all agree on the best ways to go about improving the team. We're just fans,this is what we do.

For sure. As a big college football guy draft talk type things are always some of my favorit conversations. The Pats right now are in a particularly interesting position and do remind me a bit if Iowa. Not to the same extent but shades of it. Iowa has won more games than the should the last couple years from a good defense and horrible offense. The Pats have some good defensive guys and if they get the offense back can be right back in the mix. I just think its going to take more than one draft cycle to do so but is possible.

A first time head coach that was a LB coach and Van Pelt as the OC where the Browns HC was calling plays instead of him while he was there instead of him gives me some questions about how the offense will be. It will be interesting for sure

stevek

Pasted: Upcoming season odds

New England's longshot odds are +15000, meaning a $100 wager would net a winning bet $15,000. The Pats are tied with the Washington Commanders, Tennessee Titans and New York Giants for the second-worst odds of winning the Super Bowl in 2025, per FanDuel Sportsbook.

The Carolina Panthers have the worst odds at +25000. Only two other teams - the Pittsburgh Steelers and Denver Broncos - have odds of +10000 or worse.

bronco2078

what are the odds of another 3 win season

perkdog

@bronco2078 said:
what are the odds of another 3 win season

I'd say that has a much better chance at happening than them making the playoffs

stevek

I wonder if the bookies will have a prop bet of the Patriots not winning a single game next season?

My luck they'd be 0-16 for the season going into the final game, and I'm looking at a new house. They're down by 13 points with a few minutes left in the game, and suddenly they score two miraculous touchdowns to win the game. 😂

craig44

The Patriots need team speed.

I have a need for speed!!!

erikthredd

@craig44 said:
The Patriots need team speed.

I have a need for speed!!!

Belichick just drafted the fastest Wr In Tyquan Thornton and the fastest RB in Pierre Strong in the 2022 draft. Strong is already in Cleveland and Thornton has been a bust as a 2nd rounder.

Speed is a huge plus but they need players that actually make plays.

erikthredd

@bronco2078 said:
what are the odds of another 3 win season

8 of their 13 losses were by a margin of 7pts or less and they averaged 13pts a game, just a slight upgrade on offense may lead to more wins.

Basebal21

Raiders spent a lot of years just drafting the fastest guys and had nothing to show for it. Speed is great but its not everything.

One thing that also gets lost is theres a difference between track speed and game speed. I will never understand why they have them run the 40, you dont run 40 yards in a straight line in a game unless youre on special teams. At the very least make them wear pads to see game speed. Baseball does the same thing with the 60 where if youre running 60 yards in a straight line something went seriously wrong. Some of these speed measurements are just still done because thats how they always were done.

Basebal21

Reports from all the NFL guys are also coming out that unless one just made it up and the others followed, the Bears are expected to trade Fields and draft Williams #1

perkdog

@Basebal21 said:
Raiders spent a lot of years just drafting the fastest guys and had nothing to show for it. Speed is great but its not everything.

One thing that also gets lost is theres a difference between track speed and game speed. I will never understand why they have them run the 40, you dont run 40 yards in a straight line in a game unless youre on special teams. At the very least make them wear pads to see game speed. Baseball does the same thing with the 60 where if youre running 60 yards in a straight line something went seriously wrong. Some of these speed measurements are just still done because thats how they always were done.

I hit agree because I do agree but straight up outrunning opponents counts for something

Basebal21

@perkdog said:

@Basebal21 said:
Raiders spent a lot of years just drafting the fastest guys and had nothing to show for it. Speed is great but its not everything.

One thing that also gets lost is theres a difference between track speed and game speed. I will never understand why they have them run the 40, you dont run 40 yards in a straight line in a game unless youre on special teams. At the very least make them wear pads to see game speed. Baseball does the same thing with the 60 where if youre running 60 yards in a straight line something went seriously wrong. Some of these speed measurements are just still done because thats how they always were done.

I hit agree because I do agree but straight up outrunning opponents counts for something

For sure theres a big value having a guy that can take the top off a defense and make a safety worry about them that opens up other guys, the 40 at the combine just really isnt the best measure. Difference between a 4.4 and 4.8 without pads in a straight line can just be how you start. You have to start with a hand on the ground which WRs and really other than centers most positions really dont do. Guys train for the combine 40 which doesnt really have game implications. Being the fastest at the combine doesnt mean youre the fastest on the field its just always been done that way.

stevek

@Basebal21 said:

@perkdog said:

@Basebal21 said:
Raiders spent a lot of years just drafting the fastest guys and had nothing to show for it. Speed is great but its not everything.

One thing that also gets lost is theres a difference between track speed and game speed. I will never understand why they have them run the 40, you dont run 40 yards in a straight line in a game unless youre on special teams. At the very least make them wear pads to see game speed. Baseball does the same thing with the 60 where if youre running 60 yards in a straight line something went seriously wrong. Some of these speed measurements are just still done because thats how they always were done.

I hit agree because I do agree but straight up outrunning opponents counts for something

For sure theres a big value having a guy that can take the top off a defense and make a safety worry about them that opens up other guys, the 40 at the combine just really isnt the best measure. Difference between a 4.4 and 4.8 without pads in a straight line can just be how you start. You have to start with a hand on the ground which WRs and really other than centers most positions really dont do. Guys train for the combine 40 which doesnt really have game implications. Being the fastest at the combine doesnt mean youre the fastest on the field its just always been done that way.

You're right. The combine is a guideline, but no coach uses that as a definitive indicator of success.

Coaches will say their good players have "football speed" and that's a big key to a successful football player.

erikthredd

This question has been a hot topic in the NE media over this past weekend and wanted to hear everyone's thoughts about it here....If all it cost was a 3rd round pick should NE trade for Justin Fields?

I might be ok with a Fields trade if NE could give Chicago next year's 3rd rounder then come out of this draft with
Marvin Harrison Jr @#3
one of the top 5-10 ranked Tackles @#34
then another WR, TE or Tackle @#68

Although one of the downsides to a move like this would be NE would have FIelds signed for just 2024 at 6M then his 5th yr option in 2025.

@galaxy27 You've probably watched more Justin Fields NFL games than all of us, bad idea?

galaxy27

@erikthredd said:
This question has been a hot topic in the NE media over this past weekend and wanted to hear everyone's thoughts about it here....If all it cost was a 3rd round pick should NE trade for Justin Fields?

I might be ok with a Fields trade if NE could give Chicago next year's 3rd rounder then come out of this draft with
Marvin Harrison Jr @#3
one of the top 5-10 ranked Tackles @#34
then another WR, TE or Tackle @#68

Although one of the downsides to a move like this would be NE would have FIelds signed for just 2024 at 6M then his 5th yr option in 2025.

@galaxy27 You've probably watched more Justin Fields NFL games than all of us, bad idea?

does a 10-28 record as a starter and these numbers do anything for you?

not good enough for me, and by all accounts, not good enough for the Bears' brass. mind you, they went out and got him a legit #1 in DJ Moore and the progress is still incremental at best. the sample size is now sufficient imo.

with that said, if you guys draft MHJ, whose name is being included in the same sentence with Calvin Johnson, then maybe, perhaps, possibly, this might be worth looking into.

would Fields be an upgrade for the Patriots at the quarterback position? he would, but so would practically anyone else who can spin a football. is he that dude to pull your team out of the doldrums? i have my doubts.

great kid, i love him, but I've seen enough of him in a Bears uni.

erikthredd

@galaxy27 said:

@erikthredd said:
This question has been a hot topic in the NE media over this past weekend and wanted to hear everyone's thoughts about it here....If all it cost was a 3rd round pick should NE trade for Justin Fields?

I might be ok with a Fields trade if NE could give Chicago next year's 3rd rounder then come out of this draft with
Marvin Harrison Jr @#3
one of the top 5-10 ranked Tackles @#34
then another WR, TE or Tackle @#68

Although one of the downsides to a move like this would be NE would have FIelds signed for just 2024 at 6M then his 5th yr option in 2025.

@galaxy27 You've probably watched more Justin Fields NFL games than all of us, bad idea?

does a 10-28 record as a starter and these numbers do anything for you?

not good enough for me, and by all accounts, not good enough for the Bears' brass. mind you, they went out and got him a legit #1 in DJ Moore and the progress is still incremental at best. the sample size is now sufficient imo.

with that said, if you guys draft MHJ, whose name is being included in the same sentence with Calvin Johnson, then maybe, perhaps, possibly, this might be worth looking into.

would Fields be an upgrade for the Patriots at the quarterback position? he would, but so would practically anyone else who can spin a football. is he that dude to pull your team out of the doldrums? i have my doubts.

great kid, i love him, but I've seen enough of him in a Bears uni.

I honestly hadn't looked at his stats or w/l record and have only seen him play maybe 2-3 times outside of that Bears/Pats game from 2022 where he ran all over the Pats defense. WIth so much time left until free agency then the draft, the sports media up here has been throwing everything at the wall trying to create content and suggesting a Fields to NE trade was part of it.

I'd prefer to see NE build up their offense first then go find their QB rather than the other way around. Pats fans have been talking about the need to go find a legit deep threat WR for so long that now that they're in a position to get a really good one in MHJ I'd rather that take precedence over a QB in the top 5.

perkdog

@galaxy27 summed it up pretty well, Fields will have some solid games but at the end of the season his numbers will be right around where they have been consistently and they are not good.

Basebal21

Fields would be a waste to trade for in my opinion. Aside from his performance he gets hurt a lot. Id rather take a chance on a Rattler, Milroe, Leary if his arm strength comes back, Travis etc with a 3rd of 4th round pick where theres more upside if it works than Fields.

craig44

i am not big on fields. what if we signed Kirk Cousins, drafted Harrison at 3, then took a couple of tackles in round 2 and 3?

If Harrison is really a generational player...

perkdog

@craig44 said:
i am not big on fields. what if we signed Kirk Cousins, drafted Harrison at 3, then took a couple of tackles in round 2 and 3?

If Harrison is really a generational player...

First year WR's typically come out of the gate slow unless they are in solid situations and their talent is real like Lamb, Jefferson and Chase ect

Cousins will cost a ton of money and to get tied up in an aging QB who right wrong or indifferent has never brought his team far into the playoffs is not a good plan, the Pats don't have a team in place where they literally just need a QB to get them somewhere, the QB is the only position they should be looking at for thus draft.

If they swing and miss then so be it, but I want them to try