Home U.S. Coin Forum

$5 early gold die issue?

JW77JW77 Posts: 450 ✭✭✭✭✭

I have never seen this before. Looks like gold spilled over denticles onto the reverse by "united" when minted. Would this be considered a distraction impacting value of the coin? I should mention this is a 1805 $5 gold PCGS 55. Is this a common occurrence with early gold. Thanks in advance for the help.

Comments

  • JW77JW77 Posts: 450 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Perfect, thanks Dan. Your the man on early gold!

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,165 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice color, would like to see the obverse.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,383 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I was young, I had an 1798 half eagle that had edge cuds that were much bigger than those. Walter Breen described the variety as something you could see “across the room.” In my youth, I foolishly sold it.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • raysrays Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A cud like that has no impact on value. A larger one on the obverse, maybe.
    The attractive obverse toning is more important, imo.

  • RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 518 ✭✭✭✭

    The rev cud adds additional value for me

  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,755 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The cuds are formed when stress cracks around letters, numbers or stars become worse and can form a retained cud, and when that affected part of the die falls out it becomes a full cud. There are very few collectors of early gold by die state because of cost, and the cuds don't really change the value of the coin. I like them and have quite a few silver and copper cuds, and one early gold.

    I wanted this half eagle with two cuds for about 25 years. These are full cuds because the areas opposite of the cuds are not fully formed

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • JW77JW77 Posts: 450 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So now I understand what a cud is. Thanks for the education. But who came up with the term "cud". Is it an acronym, or just a weird word? The numismatists of a time ago could not come up with a more pleasing term.

  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tell you the truth I’m not sure about the nomenclature either, but it is a strange word.

  • rte592rte592 Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JW77 said:

    @Smudge said:
    Nice color, would like to see the obverse.

    Here you go:

    Is it just me...the obverse looks a little crowded.
    Star touching the Y in liberty and all.

  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rte592 said:

    @JW77 said:

    @Smudge said:
    Nice color, would like to see the obverse.

    Here you go:

    Is it just me...the obverse looks a little crowded.
    Star touching the Y in liberty and all.

    bd-1

  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,755 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From The Cud Book by Sam Thurman and Arnold Margolis ""Del Ford published the term "cud" in "U.S. Major and Minor Mint Errors." In his explanation, he indicated the error looked like a chew or cud of tabacco""

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • silviosisilviosi Posts: 444 ✭✭✭

    History of Cuds.
    The term cud was first used by Mort Goodman in his writings on mint errors in the 1960s. He first used the term **"design cud." **What was once a collector's term has now been accepted by the minting industry and the numismatic field for the type of mint error it describes. The concept is not that different from a cow's cud that is ruminated from one stomach to another. In coining the ruminated material is metal from the mass of the blank filling the cavity broken away from the edge of the die, or from the collar. See also _broken die, collar break.
    _
    Reference:
    1979 Marvin and Margolis, The Design Cud.
    1991 Margolis: (on face) p 219-224; (on edge) 175-180.

    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file