Annoyed

Copperindian

I’m sure this subject has been addressed before, but rather than digging out an old post…..
There are sellers who don’t release coins from their Registry sets upon sale & too many of those don’t bother to respond to requests from Set Registry to release them. Yes, there are occasional extenuating circumstances: seller deceased, seller no longer part of Registry, etc.
Still, the “burden” is placed on the buyer to prove they actually own the coin in question by providing time/date stamped pics. I get that; no other way I can think of around it.
But, does Set Registry suspend repeat offenders? I don’t know, but if not, I think that should be done.
And, Set Registry is sometimes slow to release the coin for the buyer even after the pics are provided. Sorry - that shouldn’t be. Just my opinion(s).

JW77

I always verify the cert # on the PCGS app . The app tells you if the coin is in a current registry. So if i buy the coin I just assume I will have to go through the process to get the coin released. Therefore, no surprises when keying in new purchases and the aggravation level went way down.

Tom147

I just posted on another thread about the same issue. The rules clearly state " ** If after 3 business days from receiving a Removal Request you have not deleted a sold item from your set(s) and inventory and your set is 90% complete or greater, your entire set will be retired. ** Yea, so much for that rule being followed. I've complained about this several times over the years. I actually quit bidding on a certain sellers items after 7 or 8 times winning items. On receiving the coin, had to go thru the entire process. Removal request, wait 3 days, send time stamped photo to our hosts. I must say I've never waited more than a day for PCGS to release it to me. It's just frustrating to have to go through the 5 to 7 day process to enter MY COIN. I submitted a removal request last Thursday. 3 full business days, which means at the end of the day today. I'll send the photo in the a.m. and should be able to enter it into my set sometime tomorrow..........for a coin I received last Thursday.

WAYNEAS

@Tom147 said:
I just posted on another thread about the same issue. The rules clearly state " ** If after 3 business days from receiving a Removal Request you have not deleted a sold item from your set(s) and inventory and your set is 90% complete or greater, your entire set will be retired. ** Yea, so much for that rule being followed. I've complained about this several times over the years. I actually quit bidding on a certain sellers items after 7 or 8 times winning items. On receiving the coin, had to go thru the entire process. Removal request, wait 3 days, send time stamped photo to our hosts. I must say I've never waited more than a day for PCGS to release it to me. It's just frustrating to have to go through the 5 to 7 day process to enter MY COIN. I submitted a removal request last Thursday. 3 full business days, which means at the end of the day today. I'll send the photo in the a.m. and should be able to enter it into my set sometime tomorrow..........for a coin I received last Thursday.

When I go thru this situation ( yes it is a pain), I include the required pictures immediately while sending in the removal request. It does save some added time awaiting approval.
Wayne

Copperindian

@Tom147: thanks for your right on comments. I have to say consider yourself lucky you’ve never had to wait more than a day for Registry to release your coin. Right now, I’m two days in after sending them the pics & it will be longer if I don’t get after them. This has been a repeated pattern. It’s almost as bad as the offending seller ignoring the release request.

alaura22

I keep all my sell coins in the inventory BUT when it sells I remove it as soon as the auction closes.
Same as you guys, I've had to wait the 3 days and if they didn't remove it go and take pics and forward them to PCGS

winesteven

I’m on the same page. Selfish sellers should be punished. As those of us that buy coins know very well, this problem happens VERY often because Set Registry chooses to ignore the selfish actions of those sellers! If they would enforce THEIR OWN rules, compliance would increase!

Like others mentioned above, I have found Set Registry very responsive in releasing the coins once I’ve sent in the TWO “Ransom” photos, showing both sides with a current dated newspaper in the background. But what a huge waste of our time!!!

I bought a $1,500 coin tonight from a large dealer’s daily email of NEWPS. I went to add the coin to my Registry, since I now own the coin, since it’s been fully paid for, and sure enough, it’s still in a collectors Registry. I checked the box to start the three day clock, and will take the time to call the dealer first thing in the morning to request they contact the selfish person who sold them the coin to have it released. I won’t hold my breath!

Set Registry has such an easy solution, but they fail to utilize that. By the way, not that it matters, but that 90% threshold should be drastically lowered!!!!

Enough with my rant!

Steve

alaura22

I remember last year I had to send a removal request for a coin. After the 3 days they still didn't remove the coin so I sent in pics and PCGS then removed it so I could register it.
A day later I received an email from the person that didn't remove the coin thanking me for getting his set removed!!! LOL
What's really funny was that he is a WELL KNOWN person in the registries!!! Really well known..............ha ha ha
I guess his S...does stink like the rest of us.

WAYNEAS

@alaura22 said:
I remember last year I had to send a removal request for a coin. After the 3 days they still didn't remove the coin so I sent in pics and PCGS then removed it so I could register it.
A day later I received an email from the person that didn't remove the coin thanking me for getting his set removed!!! LOL
What's really funny was that he is a WELL KNOWN person in the registries!!! Really well known..............ha ha ha
I guess his S...does stink like the rest of us.

In my opinion this should happen more often.
Wayne

calgolddiver

My recent experience with the portal request for removal and the upload of ransom pictures was resolved effectively and quickly by the registry team. They must have a process to manage sales/exchanges when so many are using the registry. Will everyone have a pleasing & timely experience? - of course not ... but a customer satisfaction rate over 85% is a reasonable objective. Is it work for us ... sure ... yet we participate willingly and benefit from the software and platform for our sets.

winesteven

@calgolddiver said:
My recent experience with the portal request for removal and the upload of ransom pictures was resolved effectively and quickly by the registry team. They must have a process to manage sales/exchanges when so many are using the registry. Will everyone have a pleasing & timely experience? - of course not ... but a customer satisfaction rate over 85% is a reasonable objective. Is it work for us ... sure ... yet we participate willingly and benefit from the software and platform for our sets.

The point is the buyer should NOT have to wait three business days then take the time to take the two "ransom" photos, then take the time to upload them, and then wait for PCGS Set Registry to release it (admittedly that is often within a day). All of us have better things to do with our time! It is often the selfish behavior of the sellers that is not warranted!

Copperindian

To winesteven’s point: I’m now in the 3rd day of waiting for Registry to act on my “ransom-pic” removal request. Still, nothing & I’ve asked them twice. Unfortunately this happens all too frequently. Steve is correct about selfish sellers; I’ll add there seems to be no repercussions for their lack of action. As a buyer in these instances, one waits the 3 biz days, submits the required pics, then has to wait some more (+ request again?)! Not right in any way, shape or form.

Tom147

@rnkmyer1 said:

I have to say consider yourself lucky you’ve never had to wait more than a day for Registry to release your coin.
Sent my pictures in a few minutes ago. Followed it up with a phone call. Released about 2 minutes after the call. Now in my set. Maybe you should try the follow up call.

Copperindian

Props to Paulina Cooley, PCGS Set Registry coordinator. She has assisted me many times & did so again today. Always pleasant, always efficient. The coin is now in my set.

Coinbert

I agree that more of the offenders should be punished. Paulina has always been very helpful for me.

markinsd

I upload the pics as soon as I send the request. Don't remember having to wait more than 3 days total..

Goldminers

Keep in mind not every situation when this happens are because of lazy or selfish sellers.

When a collector dies or becomes incapacitated, many estate beneficiaries just sell everything to a dealer, or maybe some sell a few coins at a time. If the beneficiaries are not familiar with the registry, none of those coins will be released. The dealer can't release them.

When selling, the registry has a for-sale toggle and a sold toggle. The for-sale toggle does not remove the coin from sets or inventory. When a coin for-sale is sold, there are places in the registry inventory to document the sale price, buyer, date sold, etc. At that point the seller should always toggle the coin as sold. The coin is then released and removed from all active sets or active inventory automatically.

It is recommended that you keep the purchase and sales records in the PCGS inventory for tax purposes, or just for your own documentation. I never "delete" coins from my inventory when selling, however I do toggle them as "sold" when I know they are sold, and I have recorded the buyer's info and sales price.

In your estate documentation, it is good practice to inform your beneficiaries to contact PCGS if the collection is sold so that PCGS can release all the coins and retire all the sets. At the very least make sure you include your PCGS login and password information and instructions to any beneficiaries, so they can see the purchase price and current value of the collection and adjust the cost basis and release the coins as they are sold.

It is also a good idea to download and save your complete PCGS inventory details every so often and keep it with your collection as backup.

winesteven

While death and incapacity situations are INDEED true, I'd bet that the VAST majority are SELFISHNESS and LAZINESS.

Separately, i don't buy your point regarding the "For Sale" tag. The end result is STILL SELFISHNESS/LAZINESS! Here's why:

When I put up a coin for sale or consignment, once the auction house or dealer has the coin in their possession, I immediately put it in the "SOLD" tag, notating the name of the auction house or dealer. This way if those of us on this post and MANY others that get annoyed choose to look it up in advance of potentially bidding, they'll immediately see the cert is NOT tied up. Then after the sale, at some point I enter the net sale price. If it was via an auction house, I enter the date sold at the time I moved it to "Sold". If with a dealer, I enter the date sold when I enter the net price. This is a LOT quicker and easier than the time it took me to type these last two sentences, AND IS COURTEOUS TO MY FELLOW COLLECTORS!

Steve

Tom147

I agree to what Goldminers is saying, it sometimes happens, However, I agree more so with winesteven as the seller I dealt with ( previous alluded to in earlier post ) is still selling the series I specialize in. My issues with him go back to 2020. Only occasionally see his items but we're talking within a 1/2 point or so of top pop coins. Maybe he bought a high end set back in 2020, but he's gotten enough requests to know he's not doing something he should be.

Goldminers

@winesteven said:
While death and incapacity situations are INDEED true, I'd bet that the VAST majority are SELFISHNESS and LAZINESS.

Separately, i don't buy your point regarding the "For Sale" tag. The end result is STILL SELFISHNESS/LAZINESS! Here's why:

When I put up a coin for sale or consignment, once the auction house or dealer has the coin in their possession, I immediately put it in the "SOLD" tag, notating the name of the auction house or dealer. This way if those of us on this post and MANY others that get annoyed choose to look it up in advance of potentially bidding, they'll immediately see the cert is NOT tied up. Then after the sale, at some point I enter the net sale price. If it was via an auction house, I enter the date sold at the time I moved it to "Sold". If with a dealer, I enter the date sold when I enter the net price. This is a LOT quicker and easier than the time it took me to type these last two sentences, AND IS COURTEOUS TO MY FELLOW COLLECTORS!

Steve

Steve,

I have no problem toggling things to sold ahead of time. I usually do that as well whenever mailing batches of coins to auction houses.

I did a quick check at Heritage and GC and notice a very large number of coins for sale are still in registry sets. Maybe when the auction houses receive the coins for consignment, they could remind people on the forms to release them first, especially if it actually encourages more buyers who have experienced these problems in the past.

winesteven

I like your suggestion, but my sense is they won't be bothered. Higher above in this thread I mentioned I had just bought a $1,500+ coin from a large dealer. That coin was "tied up" in the Registry of the seller to the dealer. I called the dealer the very next morning and asked if they could contact the seller of that coin to ask as a courtesy if the seller could remove it. They let me know they would NOT do that. Different scenario than your suggestion, but I believe unfortunately the outcome will be the same.

The bottom line - most of us are courteous, but apparently MANY collectors who sell their coins are selfish! That bad behavior will continue as long as PCGS Set Registry does not enforce their own rules to give consequences to the selfish collectors! As i also suggested in one of my above replies, I believe that 90% threshold should be significantly lowered.

Steve

oldsmagnet

I've been kinda ripped apart on this forum in the past for this opinion, so I'm glad to see some others coming around -- even though nothing's probably going to change. But if a dealer or an auction house is selling a coin, they're trying to make a profit from it. Auction houses tack on a percentage for buyer's fee or seller's fee, if not both. On a $10K coin, that works out to a "real" number, no matter where the percentages are. GC, Heritage, etc, have experts to evaluate and estimate the coin's value, and I'd suspect the vast majority of dealers strive to say the same about their own abilities. For any of them to claim to be "unaware" of any registry status is nothing short of negligence. A quick search in the 'verify cert' will show if it's in a registry. If some kid on the street tries to sell you his dad's car, and you get the deer-in-the-headlights look when you ask about a title, that's at least somewhat understandable, because he may not be aware of that kind of paperwork. When a car dealer, on the other hand, tries to tell you "I don't have time for titles, you'll have to figure that out on your own" - in most states that's probably criminal.

A few will argue that hey, it's only a few days delay, not really hurting anything, and for the most part, they're not wrong. But if I'm paying some big-name auction house a substantial BUYER'S fee, only to find out that coin's still locked up, yeah, the world won't end, but it sure screams "unprofessional".

And how many dealers are not PCGS members? To say they can't unlock a coin, I'm not buying that. A small mom-and-pop shop, perhaps. But I'd suspect most of 'em are. They're the ones making the profit off of buying and selling that coin - to say they're "too busy" to deal with forcing the coin's release by putting into their own inventory and then releasing again when sold, is the same as saying "We're too lazy, we'll pass that on to our paying customer." Just unprofessional.

winesteven

You're absolutely right, they SHOULD do it! But as I indicated above, they're not likely to do it.

Like i taught my kids, TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS! The bottom line still falls on the selfish owners of the coins being sold that are in THEIR Registry!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve

Tom147

I'm sure many of the " mom & pop " dealers are buying these coins without knowing or caring if the coin is released. I blame the previous seller. I can see mom & pop not going thru the request, 3 day wait and sending pictures when it doesn't benefit them.

SMY_Utah_Collection

****I posted the comment from the dealer I referred to in my post below, for some reason my request (in blue) is on the bottom and his response is above, I am still getting acclimated with this boards posting external items features..****

Now on to my post/rant…

We clearly as Registry set owners all have experienced some kind of frustration when purchasing a coin.
However, for me the one that takes the cake was when I bought a $2,000.00 coin from a dealer and when I verfied the cert it said it was registered in a private users registry set. Okay, no issue, we struck the deal and I went ahead and paid for the coin, I then asked him to please have it removed from his set or if he was selling it for someone else to contact them and make sure that they as a courtesy remove it. I am of the belief that if you are selling a coin and ship it to a Third Party Company, then you really need to make sure you remove it as soon as you know it sells.
You obviously are trying to sell it and no longer are going to own it so why cause a buyer who paid you the headache of trying to register the coin. Makes absolutely no sense to me. Anyway, here was the response. Now, I’m pretty much like okay you’re kidding me right? A side note, The seller of the coin was in possession of the coin and has been for awhile and shipped it first thing so it wasn’t as if the owner had to ship it to him which made me happy that dealers like this one require possession before listing, some do not and that’s when it’s 5 days or more before you even have the coin as the seller sometimes won’t ship direct to you they then send it to the dealer who then sends it to you which is another super annoying thing but that’s for another thread.
I guess I’ll wait for the coin which is expected to be here by Friday
I’ll send that to PCGS and hence around Tuesday of the following week.
I will be able to register a coin I purchased on 2/1/24 sometime around 2/13/24 if PCGS does not take more than 2 days to release the coin. Sorry for the novel, I’ll try the cliff notes version next post.

Scott

winesteven

As you correctly point out @SMY_Utah_Collection, dealers and auction houses will rarely do anything, or even ask the person that sold or consigned the coin to remove it from their Registry. As I've said several times above, it all falls on the SELFISH/LAZY collectors that have absolutely NO CONSIDERATION for their fellow collectors, AND ON PCGS Set Registry, who apparently is not enforcing their own rules when they are applicable! Shame on all!

Steve

Tom147

Well said winesteven. Why have rules when they are not enforced. I'm a collector ( some say hoarder ) but the very few times I've sold a coin, it was removed as soon as it was handed over / shipped to the new owner. AS IT SHOULD BE.

TomB

This reply i specifically for @SMY_Utah_Collection and it might have been specified in his post, but I could have missed it.

Perhaps the dealer in question bought it from Dealer/Collector B who never had it in their own registry set and it is actually in the registry set of a previous owner like Dealer/Collector A. If so, then both the dealer and the person he purchased the coin from might have never looked at the registry to know the coin was already in a set.

However, I do agree that if you made the dealer aware of the issue prior to the dealer shipping the coin, which it appears that you did, the dealer should simply have taken an image of the coin and sent it to PCGS to start the process.

winesteven

Yes, @TomB, I actually agree that's what the Dealer SHOULD have done. But the reality is very few, if any, will, hence the "LOL"

Regardless, this shouldn't even get to the stage of having to ask the Dealer. If the original seller of the coin, the SELFISH collector that chose to KEEP it in his Registry had not been SELFISH/LAZY, and had courtesy of his fellow collectors, he would have moved it to the "Sold" category once his selling Dealer had the coin in his hands!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve

Copperindian

All - good discourse; I think there’s merit to each post.
How about a pretty crazy story about a release, though? Some 10 years ago, I had a chance to buy back a tough variety that I missed owning almost as soon as I sold it. The seller & I reached a deal we were both happy with, so win-win. At the time, I wasn’t involved with Registry. I did start a set some 5 years after this transaction, but with flyers not IHC’s. More than another year went by before I started my first IHC set - major varieties, some 64 coins. When I went to include the aforementioned coin, I found it was still owned by my seller (over 6 years had passed). At the time of our deal, he was “just” another collector, like me. At that point, he had become a dealer & today, he’s a pretty well known dealer. We’ve maintained a good relationship & are able to negotiate with each other amicably. I think he still has a lot of “collector” in his persona. Pretty ironic, though, how all this evolved over a long period of time. Oh yeah, he did release the coin as soon as I asked him.

Dan50

I'm going through that very problem right now!!

Copperindian

@Dan50: I feel your pain. But I think there are some good posts in this thread that might help. Good luck!

Murphey

I will ask the seller if he/she has knowledge about whether the coin is registered and if they do know, I ask them to release it...Often, though, it's a dealer who has purchased the coin and has no idea of it's history, but as an earlier post states, checking the certification no. here will give you guidance.

alaura22

I'll be bidding on a coin in an auction this weekend, the coin is currently in a private registry set. If I win we'll see how long or what hoops I have to jump through to get it registered

Tom147

I've had issues with coins won from GC ( and others ) being registered to another. Probably 6 to 8 so far this year. Checked certs prior to the auction end and know they've not been released. It would be nice if Ian and company could have them released once the coin is in their possession but I understand with the volume of coins GC auctions each week, that would probably create a couple new jobs with no direct benefit to GC. Over the last few years about 20 to 25% of coins I've won through GC " need released ". That being said, once I receive the coins, ( usually 7 or 8 days ) go through the " request release " process, wait the 3 days ( which usually takes me into the weekend ) then I make the call to our hosts, it's two weeks after actually winning the auction before I can get the coins released. FRUSTRATING !!! I must say our hosts have been great. Once I've been through the process, and " dated pictures sent " step, my coins have been released very quickly. Sometimes within minutes.

winesteven

Tom, yes, but the point really is PCGS Set Registry should enforce their own rules of removing the coins from the Registry in the set of the selfish person, and if they did that, the problem would be minimized by the selfish people learning of the time it takes THEM to get all of their coins back into their registry! The time you correctly describe in the process is WASTED time! I'm sure you have better things to do with that time, just as i have!

Steve

Tom147

Steve, I agree 100%.

alaura22

@alaura22 said:
I'll be bidding on a coin in an auction this weekend, the coin is currently in a private registry set. If I win we'll see how long or what hoops I have to jump through to get it registered

Well, I didn't win the coin so the winner has to deal with it
I looked and the coin as still registered...............
Yes Steve, that one!