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Educated opinions 1795 $10.00 Draped Bust



Could I get educated opinions on this worn 1795 Eagle? Does it pass eyeball test as possibly genuine? I know the edge is supposed to be reeded, this one is smooth.

Comments

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2024 3:55PM

    Counterfeit.

    Edited to add: I hope that those who think it’s a genuine ex-jewelry piece are correct.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    Counterfeit.

    I'm with stupi... smarty pants

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2024 2:03PM

    With all due respect to mark who is most Likely right. I think it has a small shot at real heavily polished ex jewelry 9 leaves rev. The smooth edge makes it most likely fake but being tampered with for a bezel might explain it. I would want to weigh it and use a loop to match the denticals to pick up points. Also are any known with a such a large die crack though to the bust? With such a significant coin, I would just want to double check while crossing my Ts and dotting my Is

  • PedzolaPedzola Posts: 995 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2024 2:02PM

    My limited collecting experience with early gold is enough to tell me this piece is absolutely not authentic.

    Edit: I am not a counterfeit expert. To my eye, the details look extremely mushy, and surfaces suspect, like the piece is cast and not struck.

    But im interested if any others agree w/crypto that it might be a real coin that has been heavily modified.

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bite it if real there will be teeth marks

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,682 ✭✭✭✭✭

    .> @Crypto said:

    With all due respect to mark who is most Likely right. I think it has a small shot at real heavily polished ex jewelry 9 leaves rev. The smooth edge makes it most likely fake but being tampered with for a bezel might explain it. I would want to weigh it and use a loop to match the denticals to pick up points. Also are any known with a such a large die crack though to the bust? With such a significant coin, I would just want to double check while crossing my Ts and dotting my Is

    It would certainly be prudent to double-check.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,245 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    .> @Crypto said:

    With all due respect to mark who is most Likely right. I think it has a small shot at real heavily polished ex jewelry 9 leaves rev. The smooth edge makes it most likely fake but being tampered with for a bezel might explain it. I would want to weigh it and use a loop to match the denticals to pick up points. Also are any known with a such a large die crack though to the bust? With such a significant coin, I would just want to double check while crossing my Ts and dotting my Is

    It would certainly be prudent to double-check.

    Nothing seems right about it. But a 2nd opinion is always good... which is why CAC is so valuable. 😉

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2024 3:00PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:
    .> @Crypto said:

    With all due respect to mark who is most Likely right. I think it has a small shot at real heavily polished ex jewelry 9 leaves rev. The smooth edge makes it most likely fake but being tampered with for a bezel might explain it. I would want to weigh it and use a loop to match the denticals to pick up points. Also are any known with a such a large die crack though to the bust? With such a significant coin, I would just want to double check while crossing my Ts and dotting my Is

    It would certainly be prudent to double-check.

    Nothing seems right about it. But a 2nd opinion is always good... which is why CAC is so valuable. 😉

    Date placement looks right, star points to denticles don’t look wrong and a few other things I look for. Not a gold expert like trades and I have only held 2 of those both 13 leaves before so not crazy’s experienced but i have held several mutilated gold coins from jewelry that had a similar degradation, looks like it has a shot at being gold too.

    Again not saying it is real, just saying it has gotten enough hits that it is worth a proper 10min look over with a reference book, good loop and a strong light.

    The biggest red flags to me is the die crack and the smooth edge but it appears to be 30-31mm which would be right if planed/soldered down from 33mm to fit a Industry standard 30mm compression bezel

    Even if it is struck fake but made out of gold it’s worth 1000$ so it would all starts with a gold test and weighing. It would be at least 16-16.5 grams ish and register 90%+ purity if real and fooled with

  • OwnerofawheatiehordeOwnerofawheatiehorde Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Edge pictures would be nice.

    Type collector, mainly into Seated. Young Numismatist. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,435 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is nothing I can say about this coin based on these pictures, but I cannot rule out the possibility of ex-jewelry.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ownerofawheatiehorde said:
    Edge pictures would be nice.

    Weight too please

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2024 3:18PM

    Looks like it may have been worn in a brooch or pendant/necklace. I'm going with authentic.
    Edited to add: Many of these over the decades have been used in jewelry and have the OP's coin appearance.

    peacockcoins

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pedzola said:
    My limited collecting experience with early gold is enough to tell me this piece is absolutely not authentic.

    Edit: I am not a counterfeit expert. To my eye, the details look extremely mushy, and surfaces suspect, like the piece is cast and not struck.

    But im interested if any others agree w/crypto that it might be a real coin that has been heavily modified.

    100 years on a neckless being worn and shined does funny things to soft metal. Could easily explain the surfaces. That said those have been special for a long time so it’s either an old piece or less likely of an explanation. I would ask the OP where they found it while looking it over.

  • Married2CoinsMarried2Coins Posts: 136 ✭✭✭

    The first thing I was told to do is weigh the coin; however in this condition it will be worthless and so would an edge image. I have a copy of the Bass coins by die variety packed at home (I'm moving from my birth home in Fresno, CA shortly) and **someone here should match the dies with the coins in that book. I'm not an expert either but I can't find any evidence of this coin being a known counterfeit on the internet. That said, I'll let the 5 star members figure it out. Obviously, the letters are mushy because the coin is buffed. For now, I'll guess its genuine. Send the coin to ANACS and let us see it in the slab.

  • Thank you for your opinions. This coin came from a collection of mostly raw coins we inherited from father in law. I know he only purchased from reputable dealers. So far, all the coins have been graded as genuine including some real gems that we sold at auction. It’s been a really fascinating history lesson researching these coins. I think I will submit this coin for grading just in case its ex-jewelry.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks like ex-jewelry to me.
    But there may not be enough left there for a grading service to positively authenticate it.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,363 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What’s left of the dentils look uneven to me. Therefore I vote counterfeit.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,363 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ifrman11 said:
    Thank you for your opinions. This coin came from a collection of mostly raw coins we inherited from father in law. I know he only purchased from reputable dealers. So far, all the coins have been graded as genuine including some real gems that we sold at auction. It’s been a really fascinating history lesson researching these coins. I think I will submit this coin for grading just in case its ex-jewelry.

    It’s worth a shot given the upside.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2024 11:51PM

    Definitely not 1795 BD-3 9 leaves, nothing matches on reverse. There is a rough similarity with 1795 BD-1, actually close in some dentil to star points, Reverse is more difficult because some leaves are flattened.

    Possibly ex-jewelry with gold solder filed smooth. Possibly a cast fake, or transfer die.

    Overlay with 1795 BD-1 would be useful. There is no crack between BE on that obverse, if that is a crack on the picture.

    edit - star points are closer together than on the JD reference, they should be all separated. But gold can peen and spread.

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't like it. I could be wrong, early US is far from an expertise of mine, but if this walked into the shop, I'd shoot the client straight and offer to submit it before purchasing.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not my area either, but my first impression was counterfeit... definitely worth a trip to our hosts to verify. In fact, this (among many others) is an issue I would never consider purchasing raw.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • jughead1893jughead1893 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2024 11:33AM

    I would find out if its gold or not before I sent it in. Good luck !

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2024 7:53PM

    @Ifrman11 let us know what you find out please. Good luck

  • Aegis3Aegis3 Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭

    Well, clearly ex-jewelry whether real or fake. If real a 13 leaf type, BD-2 variety. I lean towards real, but UGH!

    --

    Ed. S.

    (EJS)

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