My first CACG submission result

PeakRarities

Back at IMEX in Nashville, I bought an 1836 2.50 in PCGS 61cac from US coins. I thought the coin was really solid and it had a nice look to it.

Recently at FUN, I was crossing some coins over from NGC to PCGS, and I was going to submit this and my Bechtler for a regrade, but I decided it would be more fun just to crack this one out and send it to CACG raw. I also hit it quickly with an acetone q tip just to remove some haze/crud in certain areas.

Submitted in person at FUN, and I just got the results yesterday. It was upgraded to MS62! Very pleased with the result, not a huge value jump but certainly puts me in the black on this one.

WiscKau

Congrats on the upgrade. Very nice coin!

lermish

Well done!

Downtown1974

Congratulations! Terrific coin!

Manifest_Destiny

Nice!

shish

Congratulations! Very nice example.

Floridafacelifter

Congratulations!

bidask

wowee!

FlyingAl

Congrats!

WaterSport

Smart move on the crack out and acetone. Looks great.

WS

HillbillyCollector

Very impressive!
Congrats!👍

TwoSides2aCoin

Waiting for the day acetone completes the mission. When crack out is replaced with dissolve it all. Then back into an album made of cardboard , goes the coin. At the other end of the spectrum is to somehow crack it out , resubmit to NGC and get a 63. Then a crossover to PCGS. Then a submission to CACG for round 3.

Nice coin. Even in a jewelry box.

johnny010

That’s one way to retire a cert 💪
Do you think that acetone bath helped get it to 62 or was it clearly under-graded as it was?

TwoSides2aCoin

.

WAYNEAS

Congratulations @DeplorableDan.
Wow that worked out well.
A pop 1 coin also
Did you remove it from the PCGS registry and are you going to be sending more of your coins for CACG grading?
Wayne

Project Numismatics

Good eye! You have the experience to minimize the risk - not sure I would have taken that chance given my lack of experience with old gold. Congrats!

calgolddiver

congratulations on the upgrade and the successful breakout from the former plastic !!

Crypto

Life favors the bold, well done

PeakRarities

@johnny010 said:
That’s one way to retire a cert 💪
Do you think that acetone bath helped get it to 62 or was it clearly under-graded as it was?

The acetone gave it a bit more shine, but I originally bought it thinking i would get it into a 62 holder.

PeakRarities

@WAYNEAS said:

Congratulations @DeplorableDan.
Wow that worked out well.
A pop 1 coin also
Did you remove it from the PCGS registry and are you going to be sending more of your coins for CACG grading?
Wayne

I never had it in my registry, though i did email cac to let them know that one coin needs to be removed from the 61 pop report. What do people typically do with the labels, mail them in? or can i simply email someone to remove it?

I will surely have submissions for cacg in the future, but it really all depends on what im submitting and where I think it deserves to go. My next crackout submission is actually going to NGC, ill have a GTG thread for that shortly.

cheezhed

That must certainly be a good feeling.

GoldFinger1969

Congrats DD very informative post and experience. Thanks for sharing it.

For the uninitiated, acetone cleans without reacting to certain metals and/or gold ? It's not considered "cleaning", right ?

PeakRarities

@GoldFinger1969 said:
Congrats DD very informative post and experience. Thanks for sharing it.

For the uninitiated, acetone cleans without reacting to certain metals and/or gold ? It's not considered "cleaning", right ?

Correct, acetone doesn’t react with gold or any metals for that matter. I believe I’ve heard some advise against using it on brown copper but other than that you’re generally safe with solvents.

The acetone just dissolves oils, grime, or any surface contaminants such as PVC. If you wanted to use something weaker, I believe denatured alcohol is utilized as well. I put a fingerprint on the a $10 Indian while I was taking a video of it, right back into the acetone and the fingerprint disappears.

jackpine20

I like the original (before the acetone bath) classic coins in the old holders. That said, I have cracked coins out before, and mailed in the labels. I think they want the actual label. Judging from the PCGS cert#, the coin was originally housed in a rattler holder. I'm not a big emoji guy, but if I were, I would end the last sentence with a heart.

Kliao

Congrats on the upgrade!

WAYNEAS

@DeplorableDan said:

@WAYNEAS said:

Congratulations @DeplorableDan.
Wow that worked out well.
A pop 1 coin also
Did you remove it from the PCGS registry and are you going to be sending more of your coins for CACG grading?
Wayne

I never had it in my registry, though i did email cac to let them know that one coin needs to be removed from the 61 pop report. What do people typically do with the labels, mail them in? or can i simply email someone to remove it?

I will surely have submissions for cacg in the future, but it really all depends on what im submitting and where I think it deserves to go. My next crackout submission is actually going to NGC, ill have a GTG thread for that shortly.

The labels should be mailed back to PCGS as they don’t want them to end up in a fake slab or someone trying to add the cert to their set.
Wayne

winesteven

Congratulations!

While many collectors disagree, I like that you legitimately maximized value for when the time comes to sell, whether by you or your heirs!

When I say “legitimately “, I mean that I think many of us could see the coin in the original holder was slightly under graded, even with todays tighter standards. That’s different than taking a coin that most would feel is a 61, and “throwing it against the wall to see if it would stick” (resubmitting it, and getting lucky if a tired grader and finalizer at the end of a long day erred in upgrading it to a 62).

As I started this reply, congratulations! Job well done!

Steve

HillbillyCollector

@DeplorableDan said:

@GoldFinger1969 said:
Congrats DD very informative post and experience. Thanks for sharing it.

For the uninitiated, acetone cleans without reacting to certain metals and/or gold ? It's not considered "cleaning", right ?

Correct, acetone doesn’t react with gold or any metals for that matter. I believe I’ve heard some advise against using it on brown copper but other than that you’re generally safe with solvents.

The acetone just dissolves oils, grime, or any surface contaminants such as PVC. If you wanted to use something weaker, I believe denatured alcohol is utilized as well. I put a fingerprint on the a $10 Indian while I was taking a video of it, right back into the acetone and the fingerprint disappears.

>
Good to know on the acetone Dan. I’ll certainly consider it down the road. I’ve always had the fear that I would mess up, killing my coin. So is it just a quick ‘in and out’ and into water and then dry?

DCW

Congrats on the upgrade and nice coin!
On a side note- why does CACG wait to photograph the coin until after it is slabbed? It's a great photo, but the prongs are visible and distracting!

PeakRarities

@HillbillyCollector said:

@DeplorableDan said:

@GoldFinger1969 said:
Congrats DD very informative post and experience. Thanks for sharing it.

For the uninitiated, acetone cleans without reacting to certain metals and/or gold ? It's not considered "cleaning", right ?

Correct, acetone doesn’t react with gold or any metals for that matter. I believe I’ve heard some advise against using it on brown copper but other than that you’re generally safe with solvents.

The acetone just dissolves oils, grime, or any surface contaminants such as PVC. If you wanted to use something weaker, I believe denatured alcohol is utilized as well. I put a fingerprint on the a $10 Indian while I was taking a video of it, right back into the acetone and the fingerprint disappears.

>
Good to know on the acetone Dan. I’ll certainly consider it down the road. I’ve always had the fear that I would mess up, killing my coin. So is it just a quick ‘in and out’ and into water and then dry?

I only did it because I thought this one might have actually had a thin coat of pvc on it, it’s not something that’s necessary for all coins, and with some extra crusty coins it might not be the best idea. It’s a coin by coin basis, don’t go putting them all in acetone if they won’t benefit from it.

With this coin I used the Q tip method, getting the q tip wet with acetone and gently blotting it where I thought there was a film. Other times I put the coin in a glass container and just pour it in just enough to cover the coin, and let it sit for a while before I take the coin out.

lermish

@winesteven said:

While many collectors disagree, I like that you legitimately maximized value for when the time comes to sell, whether by you or your heirs!

Heirs? That's pretty dark Steve, he's a young'un!

.

Crypto

@HillbillyCollector said:

@DeplorableDan said:

@GoldFinger1969 said:
Congrats DD very informative post and experience. Thanks for sharing it.

For the uninitiated, acetone cleans without reacting to certain metals and/or gold ? It's not considered "cleaning", right ?

Correct, acetone doesn’t react with gold or any metals for that matter. I believe I’ve heard some advise against using it on brown copper but other than that you’re generally safe with solvents.

The acetone just dissolves oils, grime, or any surface contaminants such as PVC. If you wanted to use something weaker, I believe denatured alcohol is utilized as well. I put a fingerprint on the a $10 Indian while I was taking a video of it, right back into the acetone and the fingerprint disappears.

>
Good to know on the acetone Dan. I’ll certainly consider it down the road. I’ve always had the fear that I would mess up, killing my coin. So is it just a quick ‘in and out’ and into water and then dry?

Careful with acetone. While it doesn’t react to metal or toning. What it does do is strip all organics and oils off completely. There are two skins on a classic coin;
1~the reactive layer of the metal on the outside physical body of the coin’s surface that can tone or corrode as it come in contact with the environment.
2- the skin of the coins which comes in layers as oils, dirt, dust and grime that collect over the years as the coin ages. These sit on top of the surface and often inconsistently and disproportionately in the protected areas. You will hear this shorthanded with the “patina” in various antiquity fields.

These 3 dimensional layers of age are really what help prescribe originality, help identify wear and provide clues to the coins past to expert graders.

Acetone strips the skin off the coin completely not only rending the coin’s original patina gone forever, it leaves the coin’s reactive layer (surface) freshly exposed back to the elements where it was possibly protected by the skin previously.

I’m not going to say this is always a bad thing as some coins have nothing to lose with a not ideal skin (PVC, putty, Sulfur oxides) or simply to much gunk hurting eye appeal. But those who know can spot a classic coin with only 1 layer (2D) of age as processed. Might not be a deal breaker but it might be too.

There is a time and a place but I would recommend that anyone use it experiment with cull silver and clad change and do the math on any serious collectible coin before treating it. There are alternatives for various problem like PVC.

winesteven

@lermish said:

@winesteven said:

While many collectors disagree, I like that you legitimately maximized value for when the time comes to sell, whether by you or your heirs!

Heirs? That's pretty dark Steve, he's a young'un!

.

I know. But my point is every collector, no matter their age, "never knows", and as such, should have "plans". Due to that "procrastination", MANY collectors have said on these boards that "they'll send it in for stickers" or "send it in for Regrade", or other good strategies, "when they're ready to sell" to maximize value. Dan resolved that now, and that's good.

Do you agree that MANY times collectors who have plans to maximize value "when they're ready to sell" never actually get around to that, and then their heirs end up with potentially fewer proceeds than they potentially could have, had the collector done what they wanted to do, earlier? I strongly believe that happens more times than not.

Steve

PeakRarities

@Crypto said:

@HillbillyCollector said:

@DeplorableDan said:

@GoldFinger1969 said:
Congrats DD very informative post and experience. Thanks for sharing it.

For the uninitiated, acetone cleans without reacting to certain metals and/or gold ? It's not considered "cleaning", right ?

Correct, acetone doesn’t react with gold or any metals for that matter. I believe I’ve heard some advise against using it on brown copper but other than that you’re generally safe with solvents.

The acetone just dissolves oils, grime, or any surface contaminants such as PVC. If you wanted to use something weaker, I believe denatured alcohol is utilized as well. I put a fingerprint on the a $10 Indian while I was taking a video of it, right back into the acetone and the fingerprint disappears.

>
Good to know on the acetone Dan. I’ll certainly consider it down the road. I’ve always had the fear that I would mess up, killing my coin. So is it just a quick ‘in and out’ and into water and then dry?

Careful with acetone. While it doesn’t react to metal or toning. What it does do is strip all organics and oils off completely. There are two skins on a classic coin;
1~the reactive layer of the metal on the outside physical body of the coin’s surface that can tone or corrode as it come in contact with the environment.
2- the skin of the coins which comes in layers as oils, dirt, dust and grime that collect over the years as the coin ages. These sit on top of the surface and often inconsistently and disproportionately in the protected areas. You will here this shorthanded with the “patina” in various antiquity fields.

These 3 dimensional layers of age are really what help prescribe originality, help identify wear and provide clues to the coins past to expert graders.

Acetone strips the skin off the coin completely not only rending the coin’s original patina gone forever, it leaves the coin’s reactive layer (surface) freshly exposed back to the elements where it was possibly protected by the skin previously.

I’m not going to say this is always a bad thing as some coins have nothing to lose with a not ideal skin (PVC, putty, Sulfur oxides) or simply to much gunk hurting eye appeal. But those who know can spot a classic coin with only 1 layer (2D) of age as processed. Might not be a deal breaker but it might be too.

There is a time and a place but I would recommend that anyone use it experiment with cull silver and clad change and do the math on any serious collectible coin before treating it. There are alternatives for various problem like PVC.

Exactly, this a a much more comprehensive and detailed version of what i was trying to say @HillbillyCollector

lermish

@winesteven said:

@lermish said:

@winesteven said:

While many collectors disagree, I like that you legitimately maximized value for when the time comes to sell, whether by you or your heirs!

Heirs? That's pretty dark Steve, he's a young'un!

.

I know. But my point is every collector, no matter their age, "never knows", and as such, should have "plans". Due to that "procrastination", MANY collectors have said on these boards that "they'll send it in for stickers" or "send it in for Regrade", or other good strategies, "when they're ready to sell" to maximize value. Dan resolved that now, and that's good.

Do you agree that MANY times collectors who have plans to maximize value "when they're ready to sell" never actually get around to that, and then their heirs end up with potentially fewer proceeds than they potentially could have, had the collector done what they wanted to do, earlier? I strongly believe that happens more times than not.

Steve

Yes, you are, of course, correct on all fronts and I 100% agree. And everyone should have an estate plan, even the kids like Dan.

But my suspicion is that thought process probably didn't enter into Dan's head when he was cracking this coin out.

winesteven

Agreed! But the end result is the same - he maximized value NOW, instead of what many collectors do, and put those things off until "they are ready to sell". As noted, that may likely never happen that they take those actions.

Steve

HillbillyCollector

@DeplorableDan said:

@Crypto said:

@HillbillyCollector said:

@DeplorableDan said:

@GoldFinger1969 said:
Congrats DD very informative post and experience. Thanks for sharing it.

For the uninitiated, acetone cleans without reacting to certain metals and/or gold ? It's not considered "cleaning", right ?

Correct, acetone doesn’t react with gold or any metals for that matter. I believe I’ve heard some advise against using it on brown copper but other than that you’re generally safe with solvents.

The acetone just dissolves oils, grime, or any surface contaminants such as PVC. If you wanted to use something weaker, I believe denatured alcohol is utilized as well. I put a fingerprint on the a $10 Indian while I was taking a video of it, right back into the acetone and the fingerprint disappears.

>
Good to know on the acetone Dan. I’ll certainly consider it down the road. I’ve always had the fear that I would mess up, killing my coin. So is it just a quick ‘in and out’ and into water and then dry?

Careful with acetone. While it doesn’t react to metal or toning. What it does do is strip all organics and oils off completely. There are two skins on a classic coin;
1~the reactive layer of the metal on the outside physical body of the coin’s surface that can tone or corrode as it come in contact with the environment.
2- the skin of the coins which comes in layers as oils, dirt, dust and grime that collect over the years as the coin ages. These sit on top of the surface and often inconsistently and disproportionately in the protected areas. You will here this shorthanded with the “patina” in various antiquity fields.

These 3 dimensional layers of age are really what help prescribe originality, help identify wear and provide clues to the coins past to expert graders.

Acetone strips the skin off the coin completely not only rending the coin’s original patina gone forever, it leaves the coin’s reactive layer (surface) freshly exposed back to the elements where it was possibly protected by the skin previously.

I’m not going to say this is always a bad thing as some coins have nothing to lose with a not ideal skin (PVC, putty, Sulfur oxides) or simply to much gunk hurting eye appeal. But those who know can spot a classic coin with only 1 layer (2D) of age as processed. Might not be a deal breaker but it might be too.

There is a time and a place but I would recommend that anyone use it experiment with cull silver and clad change and do the math on any serious collectible coin before treating it. There are alternatives for various problem like PVC.

>

Exactly, this a a much more comprehensive and detailed version of what i was trying to say @HillbillyCollector

>
Hey, really appreciate you both further detailing the acetone process and potential complication’s associated with it. I would never consider this on any of my ‘core coins’ as they are nice and crusty and I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be wise for them!
>
I was more wanting to know for perhaps a potential acquisition(s), down the road that possibly could benefit.
Thanks again for expanding on the benefits/detriments!👍

coinbuf

Sweet coin congrats on the upgrade, and you didn't have to pay the obnoxious upgrade fee.

RobertScotLover

Guess PCGS is more conservative, huh

winesteven

@RobertScotLover said:
Guess PCGS is more conservative, huh

Guess again, lol.

Steve