@coin_hobbyist said: @jmlanzaf anyone who reads your comments could easily see you're being biased for some unseen reason. Probably your buddies. I'm certain I try to respect everyone... I take the comments as they come and will keep it as friendly as the next person will. All anyone would have to do is read the whole thing and be real. People get real whiny and hypocritical on here and they don't like any pushback or to get checked on that. Even if it makes sense. Idiotic garbage. We've had no animosity towards people putting their opinions but the whiners just want to believe its because we dont like what were hearing but it makes no sense lol with everything weve stated. It's a desperate attempt to save yourself by shifting blame after making unnecessary negativity. How cowardly. I don't care how much someone thinks they know about coins if they wanna think they can be a dick without getting checked.
Biased? None of those people are my buddies. I'm not taking sides here.
I offered cogent explanations of numismatic facts. I said nothing even remotely negative. I also made a humble suggestion to not be so combative. In return, you responded by combating me.
@jmlanzaf maybe our wires got crossed a bit. i don't mind to squash it at all. it would appear you are mainly critical to me not offering any criticisms to people obviously doing as bad with people as you could possibly claim I'm doing. we are simply seeking the truth and respect some of the more unfavorable possibilities. people have ultimately said there is no way to know without closer looks better pics and maybe even sending it in. could go one way or the other. were cool with that part and all the info. its the other stuff causing issues - some ppl want to give that treatment but struggle when getting checked. its not really a coin thing at all.
i got 5 degrees and my wife is a state champion on the academic team... dont think were "better than" for it but we definitely understand what it is to study, learn understand and share information with others ... a degree in education which i have, would show you not everyone in this forum is going to learn the same. some people are visual some people are auditory, some will need to type it out their way... its literally a joke. some of these people would make horrible teachers when you study what being one actually entails
@coin_hobbyist said: @jmlanzaf maybe our wires got crossed a bit. i don't mind to squash it at all. it would appear you are mainly critical to me not offering any criticisms to people obviously doing as bad with people as you could possibly claim I'm doing. we are simply seeking the truth and respect some of the more unfavorable possibilities. people have ultimately said there is no way to know without closer looks better pics and maybe even sending it in. could go one way or the other. were cool with that part and all the info. its the other stuff causing issues - some ppl want to give that treatment but struggle when getting checked. its not really a coin thing at all.
A few things:
1. You've gotten some blunt responses but not much hostility, in my opinion.
2. The people here are not going to change. Being blunt is their way. I suggested to you ways to deal with them. There is no point in my suggesting anything to them, I have before and it just starts an argument. This is my first time with you. It is not my first time with them.
3. Those same people can be very helpful when approached properly, but they also can be simply ignored.
4. While this is your 1st time with us, this is our 50th time with someone like you. It's not fair, but it is what it is. When you argue against the forum consensus, they label you a troll.
Please do NOT send that nickel in. It would be a waste of $75. There is a slim chance that it is a die gouge or something of that nature, but even then it is unlikely to be worth much. There's also a 99.9% chance that it is damage. The coin was gashed a long time ago and then circulated causing the edges of the gash to wear down to the smooth surface you see. I can't tell from the photo, but they should be a little recess below the raised line.
Actual errors in circulation are scarce. The rate at which you are finding "possible errors" is itself suggestive that they are not actual errors. You can search multiple boxes (thousands of coins) without finding even a minor cud or a significant die crack. And most of those are $1 novelties.
@coin_hobbyist said:
i got 5 degrees and my wife is a state champion on the academic team... dont think were "better than" for it but we definitely understand what it is to study, learn understand and share information with others ... a degree in education which i have, would show you not everyone in this forum is going to learn the same. some people are visual some people are auditory, some will need to type it out their way... its literally a joke. some of these people would make horrible teachers when you study what being one actually entails
"Learning styles" is largely a myth as current pedagogical research indicates.
You are correct, many people here would make horrible teachers. But they aren't required to be teachers at all, much less good ones.
fair enough. i can see some value in what you're saying. i will say learning styles seem they could only be so much of a myth if you think about it. when people are good at something a certain way thats just how it is when it comes to something like measuring knowledge and enhancing it. people can respond to any stimuli in a way thats unique to them and you can study those trends for those people and go from there. also no one said they're required to be teachers. it's when they act like they are and its not really doing anything other than creating tension if people let it
@coin_hobbyist said:
could go back and perfectly correct all grammar and punctuation and tend to certain people but thats not really been the focus for me on this one.
@coin_hobbyist said:
i got 5 degrees and my wife is a state champion on the academic team... dont think were "better than" for it but we definitely understand what it is to study, learn understand and share information with others ... a degree in education which i have, would show you not everyone in this forum is going to learn the same. some people are visual some people are auditory, some will need to type it out their way... its literally a joke. some of these people would make horrible teachers when you study what being one actually entails
Nobody here is required to teach you anything. Nobody here owes you anything. There are people here who obviously want to help, but you seem to want more. In fact, you seem to want to dictate exactly how they are to help you.
The problem is that what you have posted is a damaged coin. It’s just not that interesting to a seasoned collector to explain in detail how it might have gotten that damage. It might be interesting to an educator, but not to the average collector.
You say you have 5 degrees. Then you know how to study. In my opinion, collecting error coins requires an advanced understanding of the minting process. Something maybe too advanced for someone new to numismatics. It requires serious study. Surely you have studied that process for some time, right? Simply expecting people here to do that work for you is not realistic.
@coin_hobbyist said:
we recently pulled this 1939 nickel from a roll and we aren't sure what this is at the top of monticello. will attach photos of both the front and back but what i'm referring to is there on the back at the top of the building. is it some form of die deterioration, deterioration doubling or a damaged die of some kind? we didn't think it appeared to be any kind of post mint damage but really aren't sure what it is. we have been reading/studying various errors and are still fairly new to the study of coins, and struggling to find another example like this. please help us understand what this is. thanks in advance.
it looks like a small die chip causing a small cud or die crack
larger rim cuds carry more value to those that collect them
the obverse and reverse die at the mint come together with over 50 tons of pressure causing the metal of the coin planchet to flow and fill the letters and design of the die forming the coin. This causes heat and after a few thousand strikes, some dies become weaker at certain points. Die cracks form when the die starts breaking, frequently near the edge of the coin. When a chunk of the die breaks off, future strikings show a cud in that area.
Lincoln cents can frequently be found missing a chunk on the obverse near LIBERTY. At one time many people collected these BIE cents.
I know this will shock all of my friends on the forum, but I got into a bit of an argument with a customer in my friend's shop. This thread reminds me of it.
Guy comes in and hands a coin book of 2x2s to my friend. He hands it to me because he doesn't know that much about coins. It's a bunch of "errors", mostly modern "doubled dies".
I could tell without even looking closely that it was all pocket change, but I tried to "teach" him. I grabbed the loupe and started looking and didn't even see MD on most of them. So, I asked him if he had been to variety Vista.
He said, "not yet. "
I started to explain the value in looking and he cut in and said, "I've been doing this for years. "
I started to explain MD but he said, "the doubling is quite clear under the microscope."
I should have just handed them back to him then but I kept trying. "You should really stick to a 10x loupe. The problem with a microscope..."
He cut me off, "experts use microscopes".
Now. I'll admit that I was getting aggravated. "Yes, when they are looking for something specific. But microscopes can also lead to artifacts and pareidolia. "
I asked him if he'd ever visited this forum. He said, very gruffly, "I've been there. "
Now, he was mad, but so was I. But I swallowed hard and tried again. There was a VG 1892 Indian cent labeled "repunched date". There was a ding in the denticles and I thought he might have been interpreting it as a "1". So, I asked, "where's the second date? I don't see it. "
He was obviously still mad and said, "I bought it that way".
So I just handed them back to him.
He then handed my friend a very routine proof 1963 quarter. My friend said, "what's so special about it?"
The guy said "condition ".
My friend handed it to me. It was in a 2x2 with $1700 written on it with a black felt tip. I said, "it's pretty average, it would have to be better than a 68." [I looked later, Heritage sold a PCGS 70 for $1700.]
He said, "it's perfect. I ran the microscope over the whole thing. "
I'll admit it. The mention of the microscope set me off. I did what I always do. I offered to send it in for him and pay for the submission if it came back 68 or better.
He threw it at me and said, "send it in."
I felt badly about trying to cost him $40 for a $20 coin so I said, "tell you what. Before we do that, come back tomorrow and I'll bring in some slabbed quarters and you can compare. " [I happen to have about 10 1963 proof quarters in 66 to 68]
He said, "I didn't come in here for an argument. I came here to show you some coins. "
I said, "sorry, I'm just another customer."
Needless to say, he didn't come back. But if you take him at his word, he's been looking for years and put together a book with normal pocket change in it. And he's so sure he knows what he's looking at with the microscope, that he's unwilling to even listen.
And the problem is, even if he had something, he'd never be able to sell it because it is lost in all the junk. And as soon as he put a $1700 price on a $20 coin, no dealer would even offer because it would lead to the anger just described.
And, of course, he thinks I'm the a$$ - and he's partly right. But he's right because I learned a long time ago that you can't teach people who "know" and so I shouldn't have tried.
@coin_hobbyist said:
i got 5 degrees and my wife is a state champion on the academic team... dont think were "better than" for it but we definitely understand what it is to study, learn understand and share information with others ... a degree in education which i have, would show you not everyone in this forum is going to learn the same. some people are visual some people are auditory, some will need to type it out their way... its literally a joke. some of these people would make horrible teachers when you study what being one actually entails
Nobody here is required to teach you anything. Nobody here owes you anything. There are people here who obviously want to help, but you seem to want more. In fact, you seem to want to dictate exactly how they are to help you.
The problem is that what you have posted is a damaged coin. It’s just not that interesting to a seasoned collector to explain in detail how it might have gotten that damage. It might be interesting to an educator, but not to the average collector.
You say you have 5 degrees. Then you know how to study. In my opinion, collecting error coins requires an advanced understanding of the minting process. Something maybe too advanced for someone new to numismatics. It requires serious study. Surely you have studied that process for some time, right? Simply expecting people here to do that work for you is not realistic.
I never saw anyone with superior intelligence mention how many degrees they have.
@jmlanzaf said:
And, of course, he thinks I'm the a$$ - and he's partly right. But he's right because I learned a long time ago that you can't teach people who "know" and so I shouldn't have tried.
You should have just shown him a couple of funny memes.
Scooby Doo and you too are invited, P.S. Save the ozone at the Bone zone.
Catering furnished by the Iron Owl.
This right here is one of the top 10 best things ever posted on this forum.
I'm not sure the Captain or even the Colonel at his best could pull off something like this...👳♂️
@coin_hobbyist said:
i got 5 degrees and my wife is a state champion on the academic team... dont think were "better than" for it but we definitely understand what it is to study, learn understand and share information with others ... a degree in education which i have, would show you not everyone in this forum is going to learn the same. some people are visual some people are auditory, some will need to type it out their way... its literally a joke. some of these people would make horrible teachers when you study what being one actually entails
Nobody here is required to teach you anything. Nobody here owes you anything. There are people here who obviously want to help, but you seem to want more. In fact, you seem to want to dictate exactly how they are to help you.
The problem is that what you have posted is a damaged coin. It’s just not that interesting to a seasoned collector to explain in detail how it might have gotten that damage. It might be interesting to an educator, but not to the average collector.
You say you have 5 degrees. Then you know how to study. In my opinion, collecting error coins requires an advanced understanding of the minting process. Something maybe too advanced for someone new to numismatics. It requires serious study. Surely you have studied that process for some time, right? Simply expecting people here to do that work for you is not realistic.
I never saw anyone with superior intelligence mention how many degrees they have.
I don't think any of us ever asked these new members how they decided to get into "coin collecting". I put that in quotes because I don't see much collecting going on, just what I would call "prospecting".
I assume they were drawn into it by some ad or sensational article on Facebook or elsewhere touting the fortune to be found in pocket change.
Oddities and damaged coins are immediately put out on ebay as "possible errors" to "make a sale to reinvest back into the hobby", according to their ebay listings.
They also explain in their listing that they "Just started the hobby of searching rolls and this came out of the first $13 in rolls we got at the bank. (2 rolls of pennies, 2 rolls of dimes and a roll of nickels)."
They call that roll searching? For profit? 🙄 Let's see what Joey has to say about that.
You can always tell when a new poster doesn't bother to read other threads. That thread on the virtues of lurking for a while is quite relevant, as are the many threads about roll searching, not to mention the ones on errors.
Anyway, I'm happy when people become coin collectors, but in don't see that as a motivation here. It's all about selling any questionable finds on ebay.
@JBK said:
I don't think any of us ever asked these new members how they decided to get into "coin collecting". I put that in quotes because I don't see much collecting going on, just what I would call "prospecting".
I assume they were drawn into it by some ad or sensational article on Facebook or elsewhere touting the fortune to be found in pocket change.
That's a good point. I think I'll ask the next few people that pop up and see what they say. It might be interesting.
@davewesen ... thank you. i've updated the listing... and to the others lol - i hadn't said anything negative to a single person until they added extra complaining and whining talking down to people or belittling people try to assign a new meaning to that as if we just want the coin to be something it isn't ... that's manipulative or ignorant/childish behavior haha we are open to everyone's input and don't have any issues with the reality of whatever the coin is... and it's obvious the continuous struggle to try and force that perspective to the community is toxic... but just keep yes manning each other. we'll keep learning with people that show basic respect and share actual facts/knowledge when it comes to coins.
lol when did i say anyone owed anyone anything move along if you don't want to participate. it's that simple. why would you waste your time trying to ruin a good thing if it means satisfying your ego or inner child
@Manifest_Destiny - we've always had basic interest in collections like cards/coins. ive got 3 binders of most sports and also bought boxes to pull cards from. i've got a collection of cards but only ever bought a handful worth anything and my best pull was a Mac McClung Rookie auto 25/25 mojo... I have turned my focus to coins to also help curb a gambling addiction with a healthier habit. We like coins because they are less of a total bust where you've got the face value of the currency. with the chance of finding something really cool. thats the truth
we do have a genuine interest in coins... it's just multifaceted like a lot of other things. there are multiple reasons why coins are a good hobby for us.
It doesn't matter to me if your moniker is a "pretty lady" or a "King Eating a Burger"... my advice is the same: You have no business selling coins until you know about coins and exactly what you are selling. It is very clear that you do not know coins.
(That said... I do find it a little amusing in the difference of response when you were a "pretty lady". Catfish can be delicious, but they do have to be fried first).
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
@coin_hobbyist said:
i got 5 degrees and my wife is a state champion on the academic team... dont think were "better than" for it but we definitely understand what it is to study, learn understand and share information with others ... a degree in education which i have, would show you not everyone in this forum is going to learn the same. some people are visual some people are auditory, some will need to type it out their way... its literally a joke. some of these people would make horrible teachers when you study what being one actually entails
Nobody here is required to teach you anything. Nobody here owes you anything. There are people here who obviously want to help, but you seem to want more. In fact, you seem to want to dictate exactly how they are to help you.
The problem is that what you have posted is a damaged coin. It’s just not that interesting to a seasoned collector to explain in detail how it might have gotten that damage. It might be interesting to an educator, but not to the average collector.
You say you have 5 degrees. Then you know how to study. In my opinion, collecting error coins requires an advanced understanding of the minting process. Something maybe too advanced for someone new to numismatics. It requires serious study. Surely you have studied that process for some time, right? Simply expecting people here to do that work for you is not realistic.
I never saw anyone with superior intelligence mention how many degrees they have.
@coin_hobbyist said:
i got 5 degrees and my wife is a state champion on the academic team... dont think were "better than" for it but we definitely understand what it is to study, learn understand and share information with others ... a degree in education which i have, would show you not everyone in this forum is going to learn the same. some people are visual some people are auditory, some will need to type it out their way... its literally a joke. some of these people would make horrible teachers when you study what being one actually entails
Nobody here is required to teach you anything. Nobody here owes you anything. There are people here who obviously want to help, but you seem to want more. In fact, you seem to want to dictate exactly how they are to help you.
The problem is that what you have posted is a damaged coin. It’s just not that interesting to a seasoned collector to explain in detail how it might have gotten that damage. It might be interesting to an educator, but not to the average collector.
You say you have 5 degrees. Then you know how to study. In my opinion, collecting error coins requires an advanced understanding of the minting process. Something maybe too advanced for someone new to numismatics. It requires serious study. Surely you have studied that process for some time, right? Simply expecting people here to do that work for you is not realistic.
I never saw anyone with superior intelligence mention how many degrees they have.
My advice will probably fall on deaf ears because though you say you came here seeking information I believe you actually seek validation. I have collected coins for 56 years but have always been too intimidated to take on error coins. If I were going to though, I would do the following.
I would find out everything there is to know about making coins right. Visit a mint. See an actual coin being made. Learn just how the process has changed over the years and learn the specifics of manufacture for the date in question. THEN I would delve into all the things that can go wrong and how to spot them. Good luck. you will need it to take a subject like this on. James
I can link myself to Kevin Bacon in two degrees. I was an extra in "He Got Game" with Danzel Washington*. Danzel Washington was in "Leave the Wold Behind" with Kevin Bacon.
*I am NOT a movie star. Spike Lee filmed this movie on my college campus. Many students were extras. When this movie came out, the entire theater was packed with students who wanted to see themselves on the big screen. It was probably the worst movie I ever saw in a theater. I wish I had the $7 back.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
@coin_hobbyist As you can see by the number of posts I have that I haven't been on this board very long. I've spent most of the last few years "lurking" and posting occasionally when I had something to offer or had a question.
I don't know if you realize that a lot of the members here are in the "coin business". Dealers, store owners, Website sellers. This is how they make their living. Not to mention all of the collectors who have been numismatists most of their lives. There is such a wealth of information here. Most of what I've learned is by "lurking".
I've never questioned the integrity of the people on this board. They're not here to trick or deceive you. Out of the goodness of their heart they try to help everyone as best they can. But when you push back and question their expert opinions that's when the friction starts. Do they know everything? Of course not. But what they don't know they research.
I commend you for finding alternatives to gambling but coin collecting and CRH is supposed to be fun. It's not a get rich quick scheme as it is rare to find something REALLY valuable in pocket change. PMD is very common, especially in older coins as the guys and gals have tried to explain to you. There are a lot of threads on REAL error coins on this forum, a lot with explanations of how they could have happened at the mint. They're really cool. you should check them out.
Well I've rambled long enough. I hope you take some of what I said to heart. Good luck on the hunt and remember: HAVE FUN!!!
I think that perhaps an understanding of gambling addiction and coin collecting (more specifically roll searching) and their relationship would be useful here.
Aren't many roll searchers showing a bit of gambling addiction when they look for valuable varieties for financial gain? I'm not saying that this is why everyone searches rolls but I'll bet that it's at least a consideration for many roll searchers. I know that it was for me 45 years ago when I searched thousands of cent rolls for wheat cents which I used to sell at 500 for $9.99 postpaid. (It only cost $2-$3 to ship, so I was making a little money. These are still the harsh economics of roll searching, you will most likely put in many hours with little return and eventually realize that you are working for 37 cents per hour. Now some enjoy the activity at this pay and will continue to search for "enjoyment" but make no mistake, they are hoping for that great find, whether it be a valuable coin or even something very unusual, like a corroded Indian Head Cent, with little value.
Yes, there is little downside financially in roll searching. The downside is your time and you can rationalize spending the time in exchange for pleasure, knowledge and experience. But be realistic. Most (maybe all) roll searchers don't profit financially enough to make a living at it. So do it for the pleasure, knowledge and experience for now and see where it takes you.
And, yes, a few people here tend to be harsh but remember, you are dealing with children here as well as adults and some children make childish comments. Some adults make childish comments, too, but the best members, child or adult, try to actively avoid fights. And that's harder for some than others.
Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
Comments
Biased? None of those people are my buddies. I'm not taking sides here.
I offered cogent explanations of numismatic facts. I said nothing even remotely negative. I also made a humble suggestion to not be so combative. In return, you responded by combating me.
So be it. I'm done trying to be helpful.
@jedm you say that like they're easy to find but the truth is there aren't many examples of this or you could produce them. please do.
Good luck on your sales.
Here’s my take.
Avoid threads where new members don’t capitalize the first word of a run on paragraph.
This is very easy to spot.
@jmlanzaf maybe our wires got crossed a bit. i don't mind to squash it at all. it would appear you are mainly critical to me not offering any criticisms to people obviously doing as bad with people as you could possibly claim I'm doing. we are simply seeking the truth and respect some of the more unfavorable possibilities. people have ultimately said there is no way to know without closer looks better pics and maybe even sending it in. could go one way or the other. were cool with that part and all the info. its the other stuff causing issues - some ppl want to give that treatment but struggle when getting checked. its not really a coin thing at all.
i got 5 degrees and my wife is a state champion on the academic team... dont think were "better than" for it but we definitely understand what it is to study, learn understand and share information with others ... a degree in education which i have, would show you not everyone in this forum is going to learn the same. some people are visual some people are auditory, some will need to type it out their way... its literally a joke. some of these people would make horrible teachers when you study what being one actually entails
could go back and perfectly correct all grammar and punctuation and tend to certain people but thats not really been the focus for me on this one.
A few things:
1. You've gotten some blunt responses but not much hostility, in my opinion.
2. The people here are not going to change. Being blunt is their way. I suggested to you ways to deal with them. There is no point in my suggesting anything to them, I have before and it just starts an argument. This is my first time with you. It is not my first time with them.
3. Those same people can be very helpful when approached properly, but they also can be simply ignored.
4. While this is your 1st time with us, this is our 50th time with someone like you. It's not fair, but it is what it is. When you argue against the forum consensus, they label you a troll.
Please do NOT send that nickel in. It would be a waste of $75. There is a slim chance that it is a die gouge or something of that nature, but even then it is unlikely to be worth much. There's also a 99.9% chance that it is damage. The coin was gashed a long time ago and then circulated causing the edges of the gash to wear down to the smooth surface you see. I can't tell from the photo, but they should be a little recess below the raised line.
Actual errors in circulation are scarce. The rate at which you are finding "possible errors" is itself suggestive that they are not actual errors. You can search multiple boxes (thousands of coins) without finding even a minor cud or a significant die crack. And most of those are $1 novelties.
"Learning styles" is largely a myth as current pedagogical research indicates.
You are correct, many people here would make horrible teachers. But they aren't required to be teachers at all, much less good ones.
fair enough. i can see some value in what you're saying. i will say learning styles seem they could only be so much of a myth if you think about it. when people are good at something a certain way thats just how it is when it comes to something like measuring knowledge and enhancing it. people can respond to any stimuli in a way thats unique to them and you can study those trends for those people and go from there. also no one said they're required to be teachers. it's when they act like they are and its not really doing anything other than creating tension if people let it
Please don’t, focus more.
Nobody here is required to teach you anything. Nobody here owes you anything. There are people here who obviously want to help, but you seem to want more. In fact, you seem to want to dictate exactly how they are to help you.
The problem is that what you have posted is a damaged coin. It’s just not that interesting to a seasoned collector to explain in detail how it might have gotten that damage. It might be interesting to an educator, but not to the average collector.
You say you have 5 degrees. Then you know how to study. In my opinion, collecting error coins requires an advanced understanding of the minting process. Something maybe too advanced for someone new to numismatics. It requires serious study. Surely you have studied that process for some time, right? Simply expecting people here to do that work for you is not realistic.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
it looks like a small die chip causing a small cud or die crack
larger rim cuds carry more value to those that collect them
the obverse and reverse die at the mint come together with over 50 tons of pressure causing the metal of the coin planchet to flow and fill the letters and design of the die forming the coin. This causes heat and after a few thousand strikes, some dies become weaker at certain points. Die cracks form when the die starts breaking, frequently near the edge of the coin. When a chunk of the die breaks off, future strikings show a cud in that area.
Lincoln cents can frequently be found missing a chunk on the obverse near LIBERTY. At one time many people collected these BIE cents.
I know this will shock all of my friends on the forum, but I got into a bit of an argument with a customer in my friend's shop. This thread reminds me of it.
Guy comes in and hands a coin book of 2x2s to my friend. He hands it to me because he doesn't know that much about coins. It's a bunch of "errors", mostly modern "doubled dies".
I could tell without even looking closely that it was all pocket change, but I tried to "teach" him. I grabbed the loupe and started looking and didn't even see MD on most of them. So, I asked him if he had been to variety Vista.
He said, "not yet. "
I started to explain the value in looking and he cut in and said, "I've been doing this for years. "
I started to explain MD but he said, "the doubling is quite clear under the microscope."
I should have just handed them back to him then but I kept trying. "You should really stick to a 10x loupe. The problem with a microscope..."
He cut me off, "experts use microscopes".
Now. I'll admit that I was getting aggravated. "Yes, when they are looking for something specific. But microscopes can also lead to artifacts and pareidolia. "
I asked him if he'd ever visited this forum. He said, very gruffly, "I've been there. "
Now, he was mad, but so was I. But I swallowed hard and tried again. There was a VG 1892 Indian cent labeled "repunched date". There was a ding in the denticles and I thought he might have been interpreting it as a "1". So, I asked, "where's the second date? I don't see it. "
He was obviously still mad and said, "I bought it that way".
So I just handed them back to him.
He then handed my friend a very routine proof 1963 quarter. My friend said, "what's so special about it?"
The guy said "condition ".
My friend handed it to me. It was in a 2x2 with $1700 written on it with a black felt tip. I said, "it's pretty average, it would have to be better than a 68." [I looked later, Heritage sold a PCGS 70 for $1700.]
He said, "it's perfect. I ran the microscope over the whole thing. "
I'll admit it. The mention of the microscope set me off. I did what I always do. I offered to send it in for him and pay for the submission if it came back 68 or better.
He threw it at me and said, "send it in."
I felt badly about trying to cost him $40 for a $20 coin so I said, "tell you what. Before we do that, come back tomorrow and I'll bring in some slabbed quarters and you can compare. " [I happen to have about 10 1963 proof quarters in 66 to 68]
He said, "I didn't come in here for an argument. I came here to show you some coins. "
I said, "sorry, I'm just another customer."
Needless to say, he didn't come back. But if you take him at his word, he's been looking for years and put together a book with normal pocket change in it. And he's so sure he knows what he's looking at with the microscope, that he's unwilling to even listen.
And the problem is, even if he had something, he'd never be able to sell it because it is lost in all the junk. And as soon as he put a $1700 price on a $20 coin, no dealer would even offer because it would lead to the anger just described.
And, of course, he thinks I'm the a$$ - and he's partly right. But he's right because I learned a long time ago that you can't teach people who "know" and so I shouldn't have tried.
Everyone is wasting their time with this troll.
I never saw anyone with superior intelligence mention how many degrees they have.
You should have just shown him a couple of funny memes.
@emeraldATV said:
This right here is one of the top 10 best things ever posted on this forum.
I'm not sure the Captain or even the Colonel at his best could pull off something like this...👳♂️
And doing so with such poor grammar, no less:
I don't think any of us ever asked these new members how they decided to get into "coin collecting". I put that in quotes because I don't see much collecting going on, just what I would call "prospecting".
I assume they were drawn into it by some ad or sensational article on Facebook or elsewhere touting the fortune to be found in pocket change.
Oddities and damaged coins are immediately put out on ebay as "possible errors" to "make a sale to reinvest back into the hobby", according to their ebay listings.
They also explain in their listing that they "Just started the hobby of searching rolls and this came out of the first $13 in rolls we got at the bank. (2 rolls of pennies, 2 rolls of dimes and a roll of nickels)."
They call that roll searching? For profit? 🙄 Let's see what Joey has to say about that.
You can always tell when a new poster doesn't bother to read other threads. That thread on the virtues of lurking for a while is quite relevant, as are the many threads about roll searching, not to mention the ones on errors.
Anyway, I'm happy when people become coin collectors, but in don't see that as a motivation here. It's all about selling any questionable finds on ebay.
That's a good point. I think I'll ask the next few people that pop up and see what they say. It might be interesting.
No one here owes you any information, nor respect for your research.
@davewesen ... thank you. i've updated the listing... and to the others lol - i hadn't said anything negative to a single person until they added extra complaining and whining talking down to people or belittling
people try to assign a new meaning to that as if we just want the coin to be something it isn't ... that's manipulative or ignorant/childish behavior haha we are open to everyone's input and don't have any issues with the reality of whatever the coin is... and it's obvious the continuous struggle to try and force that perspective to the community is toxic... but just keep yes manning each other. we'll keep learning with people that show basic respect and share actual facts/knowledge when it comes to coins.
Threads like this make me miss Slickcoins.
peacockcoins
lol when did i say anyone owed anyone anything
move along if you don't want to participate. it's that simple. why would you waste your time trying to ruin a good thing if it means satisfying your ego or inner child
@coin_hobbyist what made you decide to get into collecting?
Too late for that!
@Manifest_Destiny - we've always had basic interest in collections like cards/coins. ive got 3 binders of most sports and also bought boxes to pull cards from. i've got a collection of cards but only ever bought a handful worth anything and my best pull was a Mac McClung Rookie auto 25/25 mojo... I have turned my focus to coins to also help curb a gambling addiction with a healthier habit. We like coins because they are less of a total bust where you've got the face value of the currency. with the chance of finding something really cool. thats the truth
You would be better off in a casino.
we do have a genuine interest in coins... it's just multifaceted like a lot of other things. there are multiple reasons why coins are a good hobby for us.
It doesn't matter to me if your moniker is a "pretty lady" or a "King Eating a Burger"... my advice is the same: You have no business selling coins until you know about coins and exactly what you are selling. It is very clear that you do not know coins.
(That said... I do find it a little amusing in the difference of response when you were a "pretty lady". Catfish can be delicious, but they do have to be fried first).
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
@NeophyteNumismatist My responses didn't change with their avatar it changed with their attitude.
@ifthevamzarockin This is a completely fair point. The attitude certainly did change over two posts..
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
The OP is actually a married couple. Based on the changes in attitude I wonder if they passed off posting duties between the two of them.
The old good cop scammer, bad cop scammer routine.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
I can get to Kevin Bacon in 3 degrees
My advice will probably fall on deaf ears because though you say you came here seeking information I believe you actually seek validation. I have collected coins for 56 years but have always been too intimidated to take on error coins. If I were going to though, I would do the following.
I would find out everything there is to know about making coins right. Visit a mint. See an actual coin being made. Learn just how the process has changed over the years and learn the specifics of manufacture for the date in question. THEN I would delve into all the things that can go wrong and how to spot them. Good luck. you will need it to take a subject like this on. James
I got five degrees in the interrogation room.
I can link myself to Kevin Bacon in two degrees. I was an extra in "He Got Game" with Danzel Washington*. Danzel Washington was in "Leave the Wold Behind" with Kevin Bacon.
*I am NOT a movie star. Spike Lee filmed this movie on my college campus. Many students were extras. When this movie came out, the entire theater was packed with students who wanted to see themselves on the big screen. It was probably the worst movie I ever saw in a theater. I wish I had the $7 back.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
@coin_hobbyist As you can see by the number of posts I have that I haven't been on this board very long. I've spent most of the last few years "lurking" and posting occasionally when I had something to offer or had a question.
I don't know if you realize that a lot of the members here are in the "coin business". Dealers, store owners, Website sellers. This is how they make their living. Not to mention all of the collectors who have been numismatists most of their lives. There is such a wealth of information here. Most of what I've learned is by "lurking".
I've never questioned the integrity of the people on this board. They're not here to trick or deceive you. Out of the goodness of their heart they try to help everyone as best they can. But when you push back and question their expert opinions that's when the friction starts. Do they know everything? Of course not. But what they don't know they research.
I commend you for finding alternatives to gambling but coin collecting and CRH is supposed to be fun. It's not a get rich quick scheme as it is rare to find something REALLY valuable in pocket change. PMD is very common, especially in older coins as the guys and gals have tried to explain to you. There are a lot of threads on REAL error coins on this forum, a lot with explanations of how they could have happened at the mint. They're really cool. you should check them out.
Well I've rambled long enough. I hope you take some of what I said to heart. Good luck on the hunt and remember: HAVE FUN!!!
I think that perhaps an understanding of gambling addiction and coin collecting (more specifically roll searching) and their relationship would be useful here.
Aren't many roll searchers showing a bit of gambling addiction when they look for valuable varieties for financial gain? I'm not saying that this is why everyone searches rolls but I'll bet that it's at least a consideration for many roll searchers. I know that it was for me 45 years ago when I searched thousands of cent rolls for wheat cents which I used to sell at 500 for $9.99 postpaid. (It only cost $2-$3 to ship, so I was making a little money. These are still the harsh economics of roll searching, you will most likely put in many hours with little return and eventually realize that you are working for 37 cents per hour. Now some enjoy the activity at this pay and will continue to search for "enjoyment" but make no mistake, they are hoping for that great find, whether it be a valuable coin or even something very unusual, like a corroded Indian Head Cent, with little value.
Yes, there is little downside financially in roll searching. The downside is your time and you can rationalize spending the time in exchange for pleasure, knowledge and experience. But be realistic. Most (maybe all) roll searchers don't profit financially enough to make a living at it. So do it for the pleasure, knowledge and experience for now and see where it takes you.
And, yes, a few people here tend to be harsh but remember, you are dealing with children here as well as adults and some children make childish comments. Some adults make childish comments, too, but the best members, child or adult, try to actively avoid fights. And that's harder for some than others.