Learning to grade coins
Morgan13
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For some people it comes easy or should I say naturally. Older guys like myself who are kind of new to the hobby might find it more difficult as a newbie. Eyesight's not what it was but I have glasses and a loupe.
I was hoping it could be like an online seminar thread on how to grade.
I have a few questions to kick things off.
When you handle a coin and start your grading what is your pattern?
Do you look at luster first?
How does one deduct dings, marks, luster breaks or rubs.
I'd love to spend a few days in a grading room but since I know that's not going to happen maybe we can establish an approach to grading.
I can take a guess at a grade but it's not technical. It's usually based on familiarity with seeing other coins of a similar grade from memory.
I know what a circulated coin looks like but when you get into AU and above I think it gets tricky.
I really hope to learn more.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
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Comments
PCGS has grading on their website to look at, Main I like the American Numismatic Grading Standards for US Coins, it shows and explains a lot, then you have Red Book, hope those help,
Greysheet.com gives you the value that most dealers go by
It takes time, you don't learn how to grade coins overnight.
You need to look at thousands of graded coins and learn to see why they got the grade they did.
I was thinking more along the lines of this as an example-
I'm at a coin show, I find a coin to look at. What's the best approach to zeroing in on a grade?
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
I believe you are 100% correct.
I just wonder how the pro's handle a coin to determine a grade. Where their eyes and mind starts and finish when looking at a coin. It's said buy the coin and not the holder.
I love this hobby and will take any tips to improve my skills that I can.
Maybe even spot upgrades in slabs.
I am sure that it's memory reflex for the pro's.
I am at a disadvantage because I won't handle thousands of coins.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
I think part of the problem you are having is you are trying to learn to grade coins from photos.
No one can properly grade a coin from a photo.
I understand you may not be able to go to a coin show and look at every coin there and I also understand you can't buy thousands of coins to learn how to grade.
One thing that might help you is to get a box of pennies or quarters and look through them and try to estimate grade on the better ones.
That is the only way you can look at thousands of coins in a cost effective manner.
Below is a two-part post of mine from 21 years ago. Hopefully it will be of some assistance.
Part 1
Disclaimer :
I have no doubt that much or all of this has been discussed previously and in some cases, in greater detail and in a more interesting fashion. But, I have received a lot of questions about pointers for examining and grading coins, so I'll try to address them in this format.
These are merely my opinions and they may differ from those of others.
I was originally planning on including several pointers in one post. However, I quickly realized that to do so would necessitate a post that would be so long as to guarantee that I would put numerous forum members into a deep and prolonged sleep. So, I have decided to break it up into 2 or three different segments. If this first one does not get me banned from the boards there will be a Part ll and so on. Ok, here we go......
LIGHTING
Different people prefer different types of lighting. I prefer using a small, high intensity "Tensor" lamp. I can sometimes see things (hairlines, etc.) on coins under this type of light that I can't see under a regular lamp with a 75 or 100 watt bulb. Some prefer halogen lamps and others prefer 75 or 100 watt lamps, like you might see at coin shows or auction lot viewings.
There is no right or wrong in this area. I would suggest experimenting with a few different types of light sources to get a feel for what you can see with each and what you are most comfortable with. Lighting can be a problem if it is not intense enough but conversely, if too intense, it can drown out colors that you might otherwise see and prevent you from getting a good look at a coin. Warning - do not look at coins in bright sunlight or under laser beams!
One thing I would stress - it is very important that whatever type of lighting you use, that it be consistent. If you go to a show and buy coins under different lighting conditions than you are used to, you might receive a very unpleasant surprise when you get home and examine your coins!
I would also caution you about lighting at coin auction viewings and shows - if the overhead lights are too bright they can drown out the light source that you are using and you might not be getting a good look at the coins. Be aware of the type of lighting, any time you are examining coins. You would be amazed how at different the same coin can look under different lighting conditions. Think about some of the coin images you see and how two different images of the same coin can look so different and you will get the picture.
MAGNIFICATION
BEFORE you put a glass to a coin, I would urge you to look at the coin for a few seconds without magnification - get a feel for what it looks like - look at the big picture.
Many very expensive coins get graded and bought and sold without the use of magnification. I rarely use a magnifying glass. The exceptions for myself, are for very small coins like Three Cent Silvers and gold Dollars, as well as the cases where I see something like a spot or flaw that I wish to examine more closely. When I do use magnification, it is most often a 5X and occasionally a 10X. I think it is important that when you use a glass, that in most cases, you be able to look at a good portion of the coin and not simply one tiny area in isolation. If you look at just one area you can get a distorted view.
If you use strong enough magnification, I am convinced that just about any classic coin can look bad! And, while you might be proud of yourself for finding 17 flaws on an MS66 coin, you might be doing yourself a big disservice by passing on it, flaws and all.
Whatever magnification you use should allow you to get a good look at the coin but not to lose sight (pun intended) of what the whole coin looks like. And remember, if you have decent eye sight and have been trained to examine a coin properly (more on that later) you wont need a glass in many cases. I PROMISE YOU - SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT HE OR SHE IS DOING CAN SEE THINGS WITH THE NAKED EYE THAT YOU WONT EVEN SEE WITH A GLASS.
I am not against magnifiers but feel that they are sometimes overused and misused. Think about the whole/big picture and learn to overlook the little flaws (unless the coin is supposed to be an MS or PR 70) - oftentimes, they simply don't matter that much on a practical basis.
Please do not take what I have stated above to mean that I think it is ok to buy over graded coins or that imperfections and flaws don't matter with respect to grade. That is not the case at all. However, I see many non-experts engage in "micro-grading" where they focus so much on little, mostly inconsequential imperfections, that they lose perspective and can't see the forest for the trees, as the saying goes.
Part 2
EXAMINING COINS
Now it's time to discuss examining/viewing coins properly.
First, make sure you don't have your pet dog, cat (or snake) anywhere near where you will be studying your treasures.The same goes for babies and significant others - this is serious business and you need to be able to concentrate!
Lighting has already been discussed but I did neglect to mention that blinds or shades should be drawn so that your light source is not interfered with by any outside light.
If you have coins that are uncertified and completely out of any type of holder, I'd recommend that you have something soft and yielding (a towel, a felt tray, etc.) underneath where you will be holding the coins, in case you drop one (or two). The best/sharpest coin graders are not necessarily the most sure-handed!
I do recommend that you remove uncertified coins from their 2x2's, etc., to get a proper look - even the thinnest layer of plastic can mask flaws and prevent you from getting the view that you should.
Be conscious of how easy it is to put fingerprints on your beauties. I have seen a lot of people start off by holding coins at their edges, but gradually lose concentration and allow their long and or fat fingers to move from the edge to the surface of the coin.
To get the best possible look at a coin it is imperative that you tilt and gradually rotate it so that the light bounces off of it from as many angles as possible. A coin can look completely different, if looked at head-on, vs. from an angle. Light reflects differently and colors and luster can look different, as well. You might see hairlines, cleaning, wipes or other problems from one angle that you wont see from another angle. Look at a coin from all angles, top to bottom, right side up, sideways and upside down, etc. This is a simple concept but you'd be surprised at the number of people who don't do it right.
I know some graders who start off looking at the reverses of coins first just to get a different perspective. I know others who begin, looking at coins sideways instead of up and down, for the same reason. I don't usually do those things but it's probably a good idea to try it once in a while, just for a change in your routine.
When you take your first look at a coin, do so without a glass/magnifier. Eyeball it for a few seconds on each side to get a general first impression - to see how it hits you. Don't worry, initially, about looking for flaws and problems - get a feel for the big picture and the eye-appeal or lack thereof.
I cannot over-emphasize the fact, that in many cases, the first, split second look of a coin is extremely important. It will either grab your attention or not. If it doesn't, it might not be so special and it might not impress the next viewer, either. If it is special looking and grabs your attention right away, it very well might have the same effect on the next person. Many buying decisions regarding many valuable coins are made in a matter of seconds, based on that all-important first impression.
Look at the focal points - the main design elements (the cheek on a Morgan dollar, Ms. Liberty on a Walking Liberty Half dollar, the Indian on Indian gold coinage, etc.) If you have questions about the most important areas for grading for a given type of coin, please feel free to ask.
Next, look at the other areas, toward the borders. As you are doing this, you should be slowly and gradually rotating the coin and tilting it back and forth (as mentioned previously) at the same time - try to get the light to reflect off of the surface from as many angles as possible.
Now, for those of you who are dying to do so, it is ok to pick up your magnifiers - go for it, but don't forget about how the coin first struck you, when you looked with your naked eye.
I'm not exactly sure what I will do in part lll and am open to some suggestions (I can't promise that I will be able to address what is requested but will try). I can tell you, that, while I know a number of people would like images and a discussion of cleaning (among other things), I don't have such pictures and, quite frankly, things like that are much better taught in person, face to face. My apologies that I can't help in that fashion. But, please feel free to ask questions, make comments, etc.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think the hardest part is seeing enough coins in hand. And images are much different than in hand.
I usually look at the whole coin under a desk lamp, without any other aid. I even pull my glasses off as I am nearsighted.
Then, rotating closely under the light from angles that include almost straight on to almost at 90°, I am looking for quality of luster, strike and surface quality (marks and hairlines (or scruffy's and whispy's)), as well as major marks and potential surface issues. Maybe 7 to 10 seconds per side. Methodical rotation scanning, moving my focus from devices to rim in what amounts probably sectional by fifths per side.
At that point, if I know the series and the general grade range of what those coins look like (say I feel comfortable at VF30 to MS65) I will have a very close grade range. Maybe the coin is a VF/EF (30/35/40) mid AU (53/5), or a lower MS (61/2/3).
Now I may look closer with a glass, which follows a similar process but slower, with less of an angle to the light, and with more concentration on marks and potential issues.
Finally, one last look at both sides without aid trying to reassess overall eye appeal and feel, and my opinion will be made. I do not overthink it too much. If I don't know the grade or series well, I have to consult references, but I also have a really good feel from those couple of minutes if I was focused on the coin.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
@MFeld Very good!
We will be waiting for part 3, 4, 5 & 6. 
@MFeld and @pursuitofliberty thats definetly what I needed to read. I see your pattern or method for examining a coin. The lighting, how to view the coin and main focal points. When to use a loupe or glass.
Great way to start out learning the basics.
If there is more I know I for one will study this information until it's burned into memory.
Thank you
I enjoy the GTG we do on here but when at a show it's no longer a game. It's exchanging money for coins. I'd like to think I have a grasp on what I'm doing.
Only fools rush in. Been there done that.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
There are many members here who can provide helpful advice.
Beyond the actual examination of coins, to me, the best way to learn to be a proficient grader, is with the help of one or more mentors. They need to be knowledgeable and willing and able to teach. Many people have the former but not the latter and vice versa. Another option is to attend a grading class.
It’s also vital to examine large quantities of coins of different qualities in order to get the necessary perspective.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The basics are a good place to start.
Handling lots of coins will come in time for me.
I need to learn the A,B and C of coins. I'd prefer to purchase A or B slabbed or raw coins when possible.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
You have to know first how to spot circulation wear. When there's no circulation wear, you're in MS, and making the technical call on luster and contact marks. Some would argue strike. That's more a market than technical criteria, as is toning. And it's all market, these days. Or, as PCGS has it, "the grade at which a particular coin generally is traded in the marketplace."
While I certainly agree that learning to grade the coins that you're interested in buying (series and grades; for instance, I don't care about very high-grade mint state coins, since I don't buy them, so I don't bother to try to learn to differentiate between an MS65 and an MS66) is important and useful, I also feel that many (most?) people seriously over-rate their own ability to grade coins, especially based only on photos.
I buy almost all my coins (and all my expensive coins) from internet vendors, based only on their photos and their reputation (and the slab the coin sits in). I think I'm pretty good at grading the coins that I collect, but I'm reminded every time there's a "GTG" thread here that none of is is anywhere near perfect, based on photos.
And this is why I don't buy raw coins based on photos.
there are some youtube videos that show some good stuff
a PCGS Grading Mint State Morgans video ->https://youtube.com/watch?v=nNxbgpWKaVw
ANA has grading courses - 2 days or 4 days with lots of coins and experinced teachers
Lot of good guidance above but similar to what @124Spider said, start by learning how to grade 1 or 2 series that interest you and then what grades you would be collecting. After 20 years collecting, I think I can grade some series that I never collected a little better than average based on stuff posted here and elsewhere. But other series I know nothing but a SWAG. Its too much to try & learn everything in the beginning and most likely you will fail or regret some purchases. If you will be collecting circulated WLH's, focus on the grading from AG - AU, and how to tell AU from MS. Don't worry if you can't tell and MS 63 from 65 at first, it will come in time.
It's too late. You need to know how to grade before you go to the coin show. And then, after that, you need to learn to grade at the coin show where the lighting may not be ideal.
If you have any uncertainty, stick to certified coins until you have a better eye.
For now, don' buy any "raw" coins. While you are at the show, look ar as many already graded coins of the type you wish to collect. Especially examine the 65 and better untoned coins. Then, when you learn about originality from these grades, you will recognize it on lower graded slabs. One big mistake I made (aside from buying raw coins as a beginner) was thinking I knew originality. It turned out that many of my most attractive coins were cleaned, .
One type of slab coin to avoid as a beginner are the ones that you think are way undergraded. THEY ARE NOT! If you see a coin that looks like a gem MS-67 with a 63 0r 64 grade on the label it is hairlined. I learned that the hard way$.
Great advice from people that have been in the trenches. I agree, a non-magnified in hand inspection is invaluable. For me when I want to purchase a coin at a show, I seek out a light source similar to what I'm familiar with. I'll ask the dealer if I can examine the coin under that light source. My process is as follows:
Non magnified inspection...yes, or no?
4 power inspection around obverse & reverse rims.
Break the obverse & reverse into quadrants.
10 power for varieties etc.
And the most important...I'll seek the advice of dealers who make a living grading coins.
You have quite a few certified Morgan dollars in various grades. Studying those would be a good start. Try to see the difference between your 62 and 63 grades and your 64 and 65 grades etcetera. Once you can see the differences between them you are on your way to learning how to grade them.
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That is something I do. However, it's good to hear from all the people offering advice. This thread is not meant for me alone. Many other people might get something out of it as well.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
Several above suggestions were for line help ... the PCGS resource library is a very good start. They have 3 series of videos Coin Grading 101, 102 & 103 that I had found useful and will go back to watch once in a while
https://www.pcgs.com/education
many other sites including an older one by James Halperin, Co-founder of Heritage Coin Galleries https://www.coingrading.com/
have fun learning ... I am still amused by TPG regrading - when the same coins migrate though different grading states. Gee - I have one that was in an old ANACS holder as Net 60 PF "Cleaned recolored" piece back in several auctions in the 90's .. then it pops up 20 years later aa a PCGS PF62BN holder and now with a CAC sticker! go figure !
OMG ... My Mother was Right about Everything!
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I agree with what others have said. If you want to get into into it buy a $25BU box of Lincolns from the bank. I gave one to my sons friend (it was little rare one but I have 50 of them) broke open some rolls, gave him one of my special GE reveal light bulbs and low and behold he did fantastic. He is 17 so his eyes are not mine. When I was making coins 25 years ago I had 20/10 vision. Now 20/30. Use eye correction if you can for 20/20 at least, IMO.