1921 Peace Dollar w/ Denver mint mark
Jager322
Posts: 6 ✭
I have a 1921 Peace Dollar with a D mint mark
I’m confused 
5
Jager322
Posts: 6 ✭
Comments
It's counterfeit
That isn’t a 21 Rev as one can tell by the mint mark and rays above one. It’s a counterfeit made by someone who doesn’t know die pairs. Or as Dan Carr would say a not a counterfeit but a fantasy piece as they never made 21D peace dollars. There are other tells to being crudely made and it doesn’t look to be silver either
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Bogus
I heard the Denver mint received the 1921 peace dollar dies
That would be irrelevant, as even if true, the coin is counterfeit.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
From????? Uncle's sister's brother's cousin who has a friend?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Who’s to say they didn’t throw in some 1921 peace test coins into 1921 Morgan batch or 1922 peace batch
What do morgans have anything to do with this? Besides, the coin pictured has the reverse of 1922 and onward.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
Fake> @Jager322 said:
No. In my research into the 1922-D cent coinage I have the correspondence from the Philadelphia Mint regarding the first Peace Dollar dies sent to Denver and they were not shipped until January 6, 1922.
The Denver Mint continued striking 1921-D Morgan dollars through December 31, 1921.
Who’s to say that you’re unwilling to accept the reality that the coin’s counterfeit? Or that you already knew that, but are having fun trolling?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yours is fake even if there are 100,000 real ones out there.
Welcome to the forum.
That is by far the best observation you've made. Whenever a knowledgeable person tries to help you and you feel the urge to contradict them, just remind yourself that you are confused.
I’m just posting what I know or heard, what a bunch of psychos on here. I got the coin from a friend and I did an hour of research. Thank you for all the comments and feedback. Just wanted to know what I had. Some you guys need to chill out and not to drink and post. Acting like coin crackheads
The ol' 1921-D reverse of '23.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I think I'll have a drink.....
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
A Friday night Crack with Coins thread?
CaptHenway, above, has done YEARS of research. If he said Denver never had the dies to coin that dollar, then believe him.
bob
vegas, baby!
Additionally, in answer to the question “Chinese or it’s a different peace coin that got altered?”, the coin wasn’t altered - it’s a counterfeit.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The prefered parlance by many members here is “fantasy coin.” No Denver pieces were ever produced… No one will be fooled. 🙄😉
"Fantasy coin" is only used if its Dan Carr. For everyone else, it's counterfeit.
Why is he given special status? His work is materially no different than Henning’s work, the Omega man’s work, or the modern works of the orient in my humble opinion.
A huge difference is that he strikes over genuine coins.
Also, his creations are not intended to deceive.
If this were overstruck on a Morgan or Peace Dollar, would it be okay? Do we know for a fact it wasn’t ? How do we know the producer of this piece intended to deceive? It is clearly marked with a D and no 1921-D Peace Dollars we’re ever issued by the Mint. Anyone with a Red Book would know.
@Jager322
If you don’t want to listen to the negative nanny’s on here you should get it graded and show everyone the result! I think you’ll be shocked at what you get!
Good luck! I recommend sending it in overnight service!
My current registry sets:
20th Century Type Set
Virtual DANSCO 7070
Slabbed IHC set - Missing the Anacs Slabbed coins
Other than the OP. 🤣
This ^^^^. It's actually very simple, and has nothing to do with the fact that someone like Dan is very well respected while a Chinese hack is not.
No one with an intent to deceive is going to take the time to produce something that never existed, and then try to pass it off as genuine. Hence, those are fantasy pieces, no matter who is producing them, how good (or bad) a particular example happens to be, or whether or not it is overstruck on a genuine coin.
A counterfeit is an altered or fake version of an actual Mint release. By definition, with an intent to deceive if it is not marked as a copy.
These aren't questions for me to answer, or for this thread, for that matter. The issue has been debated endlessly, but if you want to have another go at it, feel free to start a new thread. It would not be appropriate to hijack this thread with it.
I think it’s inaccurate to label a genuine, but altered coin as a counterfeit. For example, if you have a 1914 cent with an added D mintmark, it’s referred to as added mintmark, not counterfeit. Another example would be a Seated Liberty (with arrows) coin with the arrows removed. It would be labeled as tooled, altered or something else other than counterfeit.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Fair enough, and I'll defer to you as being far more knowledgeable than me in general. To me, it's all the same if it's not genuine and it's not a clear fantasy piece, since the intent is to commit fraud.
I'm not the one you have to convince.
I plan to smoke some crack later.
I agree with your sentiments. My comments pertained to the classification of coins, as opposed to the bottom line reality that you pointed out.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I offer you the OP. Just because Dan Carr himself doesn't intend to deceive doesn't mean his creations could not be used to deceive. How hard would it be to convince a newbie that your Dan Carr piece is actually a U.S. Mint pattern.
By your definition, the coin on this thread is not a counterfeit. It's a collectible fantasy.
Would it be legal to take a genuine 1921 and overstrike it with a fantasy D Reverse?
The fact that he overstrikes his stuff on genuine coins is the technicality that makes most of his legal tender coin design pieces legal, that plus the fact that most of his legal tender coin design pieces are of date and mint mark combinations that the U.S. Mint never struck.
I believe that he was unfortunately mistaken when he made his 1964-D Peace Dollar overstrikes, because it is a fact that a U.S. Mint DID strike 1964-D Peace dollars. I do not think that the fact that no genuine 1964-D Peace Dollars are currently and publicly known to exist makes the 1964-D overstrikes legal. Others are entitled to their opinions on the matter, and I am entitled to mine. The U.S. Government does not seem to care about them, and in the end theirs is the only opinion that matters.
And just as an aside, many years ago I speculated that a certain person very active in the hobby in the mid-1960's might have one, and I called that person and offered that person 100 ounces of common gold bullion coins in exchange for one. That person said "That's a very interesting offer" and changed the subject. That person is now long deceased.
This has turned out to be an educational and fun thread to read.
In reference to the subject coin: would you speculate it was die struck or cast?
I see what appears to be bubbles, but can't tell.
I'd also find it interesting if it is 90% silver.
If it was struck and is 90% silver than it is one of the "better" counterfeits.
peacockcoins
Anytime someone suggests this a star goes dark and these appear:
I guess I might as well send it in to be graded 😎
But what if we take a common date 1940s copper cent, take affirmative steps to eradicate as much of the original details as possible, and then overstrike it with counterfeit dies to produce a 1914-D cent, would this be a counterfeit? What about taking a 1943 steel cent and over striking a 1942 cent cent design?
The argument that stamping a new coin over an old coin of the same design and composition deprives the resulting piece of its counterfeit status has already been rejected by at least one federal appellate court.
https://casetext.com/case/united-states-v-wilson-115
Anyway, I’ll go back to my original point. OP: Flip it on eBay as a fantasy coin and take the proceeds and apply it towards buying a real 1921 Peace Dollar.
Whatever it is it looks cast. Strange crack through the O in one on reverse.
Based on the appellate court decision you linked, I think that the two hypotheticals you presented could be prosecuted under18 U.S.C. §§ 331, 485 or both.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The wire rim at the top left of the reverse suggests that it was die struck. However, the surfaces in the pictures suggest that it was cast.
In either case, "boy would I be surprised" if it contained any silver at all, let alone 90%.
Yes, it would be. Dan Carr does it all day long, with all sorts of overstrikes that he does not label as copies, with no negative consequences.
As long as actual coins do not exist in the purported date, mint mark, design, denomination, metallic composition, etc., as an overstrike, it is a legal fantasy coin and not a counterfeit, added mintmark, tooled, etc. illegal item.
And, please, do not offer me the OP, who is very clearly a troll, from their post count to their responses, as opposed to a misguided soul or victim. The coin they posted is absolutely a fantasy. Collectible is in the eye of the beholder.
I heard that every time a counterfeit coin is posted an Angel gets its wings plucked.
Chris
Pretty good fake. For me, the obv motto gives it away.
USAF veteran 1984-2005
Scrape off the D mint mark and should be good … 👍
It would still be counterfeit