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Ebay ignorning the reporting of fakes now...

AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

Reported several fakes and was told that they didn't violate any policy... really now?
Check these out and let me know what you think..... lol
https://www.ebay.com/itm/395105312020

Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]

Comments

  • habaracahabaraca Posts: 1,947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    and from china with a 6 feedback.............

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    Reported several fakes and was told that they didn't violate any policy... really now?
    Check these out and let me know what you think..... lol
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/395105312020

    Did you report the other counterfeit listings from that seller?

    eBay has never removed anywhere close to all of the counterfeit listings that have been reported. So I certainly wouldn’t draw any (“Ebay ignorning the reporting of fakes now..”) conclusions based on anything less than a very large number of reports that are ignored.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,249 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @AUandAG said:
    Reported several fakes and was told that they didn't violate any policy... really now?
    Check these out and let me know what you think..... lol
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/395105312020

    Did you report the other counterfeit listings from that seller?

    eBay has never removed anywhere close to all of the counterfeit listings that have been reported. So I certainly wouldn’t draw any (“Ebay ignorning the reporting of fakes now..”) conclusions based on anything less than a very large number of reports that are ignored.

    EBay gets criticized automatically. On one thread, they were even suspected for a transaction that didn't even occur on ebay.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,830 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This reminds me of a recent headline: "Cops killing drivers for running stop signs now".
    Of course when you get into the story you see a police officer pulling over a vehicle who did originally run a stop sign- yet attempt to flee. After a pursuit the driver exited his vehicle quickly and shot twice at the officer.
    The officer returned fire, mortally wounding the driver.
    It was determined that driver had a felony warrant for a home invasion he had been involved with including prior convictions for armed robbery.

    Sometimes you got to dig a little deeper than the sensational headline- such as the one the OP provided here.

    peacockcoins

  • AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2024 12:56PM

    eBay wants their fees. They don’t care. I will say though, you can still find some smoking deals there if you look frequently.

  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did you get an automated reply from ebay that looked like this?

    If so, see the thread from late November.
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1097987/ebay-artificial-intelligence-fails-to-identify-counterfeit-coins

  • ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,611 ✭✭✭✭✭

    On Instagram, I got blocked by that crap Temu site for calling out their counterfeit wares. They ware offering "sets" of obviously fake Peace dollars among other fakes, and it seems like the powers that be truly didn't care. After all, it's ad revenue. Sad.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yosclimber said:

    @MFeld

    Yes reported them all and yes got that response from ebay....
    I usually have VERY good luck reporting but I did find it's better to report as FRAUD and this time I didn't. But, I will now report as fraud..
    we'll see
    bob :)
    vegas, baby!

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:

    @yosclimber said:

    @MFeld

    Yes reported them all and yes got that response from ebay....
    I usually have VERY good luck reporting but I did find it's better to report as FRAUD and this time I didn't. But, I will now report as fraud..
    we'll see
    bob :)
    vegas, baby!

    Thanks for the tip. I’ve been reporting these listings as counterfeits, but will try the “fraud” option on occasion, too.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,830 ✭✭✭✭✭

    eBay is not being altruistic with their blocking counterfeits on their site.
    If eBay were to simply look the other way and allow counterfeits to be sold with impunity
    many sellers would turn elsewhere.

    peacockcoins

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This begs the question of moral obligations by a company. It’s up to the buyer to determine a fake? If yes eBay likely saves million in overhead; however, they get a bad rap and have to deal with angry customers. I could go on.

    I’m in favor of less is more.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,190 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When buying from eBay, I always pay for coins with a credit card. If I get a coin that is counterfeit, my credit card company will do a chargeback for me.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,249 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    When buying from eBay, I always pay for coins with a credit card. If I get a coin that is counterfeit, my credit card company will do a chargeback for me.

    This.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,249 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if people get as agitated at newspaper classifieds and social media as they do at eBay.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,752 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They’re busy scrutinizing me and my widgets.

  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    eBay usually does not take a listing down unless there are several reports. Only one or two usually does not do it. I don't know what the number is. As a community this forum has helped take down many counterfeits. You need to start a thread here and ask for help to get the listing removed. When enough reports come in, they investigate and then remove them.

    @yosclimber said:
    Did you get an automated reply from ebay that looked like this?

    If so, see the thread from late November.
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1097987/ebay-artificial-intelligence-fails-to-identify-counterfeit-coins

    Notice it says AI (artificial intelligence). AI is one of the worst things that ever happened to the internet. I absolutely hate it and wish it would go away. This is just another attempt to get rid of employees. Ever notice that it is more and more difficult to talk to a real person when you call to resolve a problem? And this is not just eBay. No real person looked at your email. They let the AI respond.

    image
  • lcutlerlcutler Posts: 490 ✭✭✭✭

    I reported this one, https://www.ebay.com/itm/355340758963?hash=item52bbf5afb3:g:g6oAAOSwLLplk4uU, and got the same response. This one is marked copy but the seller is claiming it is a genuine coin. I contacted the seller first and pointed out the copy stamp and he claimed he doesn't see it. The funny thing is, the seller then "offered" the coin to me for $120.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lcutler said:
    I reported this one, https://www.ebay.com/itm/355340758963?hash=item52bbf5afb3:g:g6oAAOSwLLplk4uU, and got the same response. This one is marked copy but the seller is claiming it is a genuine coin. I contacted the seller first and pointed out the copy stamp and he claimed he doesn't see it. The funny thing is, the seller then "offered" the coin to me for $120.

    Reported.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,249 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:

    @lcutler said:
    I reported this one, https://www.ebay.com/itm/355340758963?hash=item52bbf5afb3:g:g6oAAOSwLLplk4uU, and got the same response. This one is marked copy but the seller is claiming it is a genuine coin. I contacted the seller first and pointed out the copy stamp and he claimed he doesn't see it. The funny thing is, the seller then "offered" the coin to me for $120.

    Reported.

    It's gone...making a liar out of the OP thread title.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @burfle23 said:

    @lcutler said:
    I reported this one, https://www.ebay.com/itm/355340758963?hash=item52bbf5afb3:g:g6oAAOSwLLplk4uU, and got the same response. This one is marked copy but the seller is claiming it is a genuine coin. I contacted the seller first and pointed out the copy stamp and he claimed he doesn't see it. The funny thing is, the seller then "offered" the coin to me for $120.

    Reported.

    It's gone...making a liar out of the OP thread title.

    Not really; some may be more successful with their reports...

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @burfle23 said:

    @lcutler said:
    I reported this one, https://www.ebay.com/itm/355340758963?hash=item52bbf5afb3:g:g6oAAOSwLLplk4uU, and got the same response. This one is marked copy but the seller is claiming it is a genuine coin. I contacted the seller first and pointed out the copy stamp and he claimed he doesn't see it. The funny thing is, the seller then "offered" the coin to me for $120.

    Reported.

    It's gone...making a liar out of the OP thread title.

    Not really; some may be more successful with their reports...

    It was not removed but did sell. My attempts to get removed failed miserably. :(
    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • USMC_6115USMC_6115 Posts: 2,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2024 2:10PM

    I'm no Bust $ expert, but I'm pretty sure this one is a fake... I reported it and Ebay said nothing about it violates their policy:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/364663763612

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yosclimber said:
    Did you get an automated reply from ebay that looked like this?

    If so, see the thread from late November.
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1097987/ebay-artificial-intelligence-fails-to-identify-counterfeit-coins

    I was one of the panel for my Online Teaching Community at UMB for a discussion on the use of AI in the classroom and in biomedical research... it ain't goin' away. Companies are relying on technology that's still in its infancy to police their platform, and if I've embraced anything else from my experience with AI in this environment is that it's fraught with errors. It outright makes stuff up, and still needs a lot of training. IMHO, it's not ready for "primetime"...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @USMC_6115 said:
    I'm no Bust $ expert, but I'm pretty sure this one is a fake... I reported it and Ebay said nothing about it violates their policy:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/364663763612

    Yes, that’s a counterfeit. Reported and seller contacted.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • knovak1976knovak1976 Posts: 200 ✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @USMC_6115 said:
    I'm no Bust $ expert, but I'm pretty sure this one is a fake... I reported it and Ebay said nothing about it violates their policy:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/364663763612

    Yes, that’s a counterfeit. Reported and seller contacted.

    0 feedback listed……another scammer…

  • USMC_6115USMC_6115 Posts: 2,942 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lkenefic said:

    @yosclimber said:
    Did you get an automated reply from ebay that looked like this?

    If so, see the thread from late November.
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1097987/ebay-artificial-intelligence-fails-to-identify-counterfeit-coins

    I was one of the panel for my Online Teaching Community at UMB for a discussion on the use of AI in the classroom and in biomedical research... it ain't goin' away. Companies are relying on technology that's still in its infancy to police their platform, and if I've embraced anything else from my experience with AI in this environment is that it's fraught with errors. It outright makes stuff up, and still needs a lot of training. IMHO, it's not ready for "primetime"...

    Yes, that exact email

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AI sucks.

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    AI sucks.

    Not for everything... if I had to make a party flyer or a 500 word essay on George Washington, it's fine. Ask it to do anything that requires analysis, and you're asking for problems.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,249 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @burfle23 said:

    @lcutler said:
    I reported this one, https://www.ebay.com/itm/355340758963?hash=item52bbf5afb3:g:g6oAAOSwLLplk4uU, and got the same response. This one is marked copy but the seller is claiming it is a genuine coin. I contacted the seller first and pointed out the copy stamp and he claimed he doesn't see it. The funny thing is, the seller then "offered" the coin to me for $120.

    Reported.

    It's gone...making a liar out of the OP thread title.

    Not really; some may be more successful with their reports...

    Yes, as they should be. But clearly ebay is NOT ignoring reports of ebay fakes.

  • HalfpenceHalfpence Posts: 441 ✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @burfle23 said:

    @lcutler said:
    I reported this one, https://www.ebay.com/itm/355340758963?hash=item52bbf5afb3:g:g6oAAOSwLLplk4uU, and got the same response. This one is marked copy but the seller is claiming it is a genuine coin. I contacted the seller first and pointed out the copy stamp and he claimed he doesn't see it. The funny thing is, the seller then "offered" the coin to me for $120.

    Reported.

    It's gone...making a liar out of the OP thread title.

    It didn't make a liar out of the OP in any way.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,249 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2024 6:26PM

    @Halfpence said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @burfle23 said:

    @lcutler said:
    I reported this one, https://www.ebay.com/itm/355340758963?hash=item52bbf5afb3:g:g6oAAOSwLLplk4uU, and got the same response. This one is marked copy but the seller is claiming it is a genuine coin. I contacted the seller first and pointed out the copy stamp and he claimed he doesn't see it. The funny thing is, the seller then "offered" the coin to me for $120.

    Reported.

    It's gone...making a liar out of the OP thread title.

    It didn't make a liar out of the OP in any way.

    Disagree. The title indicates a blanket ebay policy which clearly doesn't exist.

    They don't "ignore reports of fakes". They simply don't remove all of them for a variety of reasons.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lkenefic said:

    @AUandAG said:
    AI sucks.

    Not for everything... if I had to make a party flyer or a 500 word essay on George Washington, it's fine. Ask it to do anything that requires analysis, and you're asking for problems.

    Of course I meant coins... not Presidents or parties.... lol

    bob :)> @jmlanzaf said:

    @Halfpence said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @burfle23 said:

    @lcutler said:
    I reported this one, https://www.ebay.com/itm/355340758963?hash=item52bbf5afb3:g:g6oAAOSwLLplk4uU, and got the same response. This one is marked copy but the seller is claiming it is a genuine coin. I contacted the seller first and pointed out the copy stamp and he claimed he doesn't see it. The funny thing is, the seller then "offered" the coin to me for $120.

    Reported.

    It's gone...making a liar out of the OP thread title.

    It didn't make a liar out of the OP in any way.

    Disagree. The title indicates a blanket ebay policy which clearly doesn't exist.

    They don't "ignore reports of fakes". They simply don't remove all of them for a variety of reasons.

    This is not true. They ignore, don't respond, to reports. I reported a dozen or more fakes and got two thanks for reporting emails. Both were found to be an unwarranted removal. The others were not responded to nor was action taken. So, when I said they ignore, this is absolutely true. None of the ones I reported as "fraud" were responded to nor acted on.

    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The ones I reported were removed, not ignored...

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:
    The ones I reported were removed, not ignored...

    Good to know... thanks!

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,435 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yesterday I reported a CHinese counterfeit 1922 No D off center cent. Today I got this:

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's obvious that you don't know anything about Lincoln Cents @CaptHenway!

    bob :)
    vegas, baby!

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,249 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2024 12:52PM

    @CaptHenway said:
    Yesterday I reported a CHinese counterfeit 1922 No D off center cent. Today I got this:

    Not that I want to get pulled into this again, BUT I called ebay 2 days ago. Mostly, I just wanted my complaint registered. Here's the story:

    I listed a variety in a Stanton signed PCI holder. Ebay ended it as a "counterfeit or reproduction".

    [If you don't know, PCI is not an ebay approved TPG. You can't use the grade of show the slab - which I knew - but I thought it would be silly to try to sell it without showing the Stanton signature which required I show the label. ]

    Anyway, I called and got passed up the ladder a couple rungs until I got to someone willing to register my complaint.

    I pointed out that while PCI was not ebay approved, it was highly inaccurate to call the coin a counterfeit or reproduction. It was simply "uncertified".

    I pointed out to her that I could crack out the coin and sell that exact coin on ebay without the VALUABLE (my word) Stanton signature. But I also pointed her to this thread and pointed out that I could also sell legitimate counterfeits as long as they were raw because their "AI" can recognize my PCI slab but can't authenticate coins.

    She admitted that this was the problem. She also admitted that there was an obvious inconsistency in the way things were being treated. She also admitted to not having any coin expertise in house.

    She also admitted that she couldn't do anything but forward my complaint to the person in charge.

    I told her that's all I really wanted.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The standard reporting function and responses is bewildering...

    This is the response I received after reporting a pair of obvious fake half cents; it stated a "customer service agent":

    The listing was later removed.

    I then reported another of the bad 1881-CC Morgan, this time using all 3 options available through eBay (3 different reports) but received 1 response, also stating customer service agent's involvement but no policy issue. When I clicked on the "start appeal" link in the response it took me to this:

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,249 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:
    The standard reporting function and responses is bewildering...

    This is the response I received after reporting a pair of obvious fake half cents; it stated a "customer service agent":

    The listing was later removed.

    I then reported another of the bad 1881-CC Morgan, this time using all 3 options available through eBay (3 different reports) but received 1 response, also stating customer service agent's involvement but no policy issue. When I clicked on the "start appeal" link in the response it took me to this:

    It APPEARS that they have no ability to detect actual counterfeits BUT if they receive enough reports they treat it a evidence of a counterfeit. Neither is ideal but I really don't care, frankly. If they were more invasive, the fraudulent activity would just resort to blurry images or stock photos of real coins. It's a problem without an easy solution.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf good to know you "really don't care"; no need to bother responding then!

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Both of the listings I posted here were later removed.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,249 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:
    @jmlanzaf good to know you "really don't care"; no need to bother responding then!

    I'm not sure what, exactly, that is supposed to mean. What I meant, in case it wasn't clear, is that I do not think it possible for them to decipher every counterfeit. I don't think trusting multiple reports from random people is much better than trying to certify fakes from possibly grainy photos. So, we live with an imperfect system.

  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,929 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m glad and thankful that members of this board are looking out and reporting this activity. Thank you!😊

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