Options
A New Years surprise, I've jumped ahead of Hansen!
Crackout
Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was looking at my Denver Mint type set and I'm currently the #1 finest! It looks like a couple of Buffalo Nickels were removed from Hansen's sets and allowed my set to leapfrog to number one. I'll take this screenshot as proof and I will enjoy this New Years surprise for as long as it lasts!
8
Comments
Enjoy your fleeting moment!
LOL !!! I done the same thing back in 2022. Jumped to # 1 ahead of Mr. Hansen. I was shocked. Took my screenshot. You bet I'm keeping it. It lasted about 10 days until he got his regrades back. Enjoy your time sir.
I was going to chime in and add the "enjoy your moment" bit also -- 2020 I snuck ahead of him for the first 100% completion of the "big" Ike dollar set, an accomplishment that earned me a blue banner for the year. Hansen's set hit 100% shortly thereafter and put himself back to number one, but I had my moment... (and if it wasn't for 2020, I still believe that banner would have been gold instead... (sigh) -- BUT... I see now after double checking, he's now missing a few Ikes and has dropped down to 3rd, leaving me back at #1. Not sure if he's selling stuff off and getting out, or if it's just another case of the PCGS/Registry website taking a dump and just dropping coins out of sets at random. Frankly that'd come as less of a surprise at this point, but yeah....
His staff is probably sending the coins off for reconsideration, if they are all not 70s already...................
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Hansen is in the process of moving quite a few coins to CACG it seems. Not sure if he will turn in the PCGS labels or not. Maybe he will try to keep sets up at both grading companies? His proof Barber Half Dollars have already been graded by CACG. They were on display at Winter FUN. Not sure if this is his primary set or a 2nd or 3rd set though. Maybe someone will be interested in sleuthing this?
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I haven't heard "much" yet, but from what I have heard, the CAC guys are brutal to get grades from, a consistent downgrade from PCGS, a step or two worse than how PCGS crosses NGC's (ie, an NGC 70 would probably be a CAC67 or lower) -- If Hansen is jumping ship for that, that really could spell disaster for PCGS and the Set Registry, I mean, the guy's got top ranked sets in probably 80% of the sets out there. Not sure if it'll serve as a slap in face, or a kick in the other side.... but hopefully the Registry team takes notice and actually starts paying attention to what's happening to their brand.
I understand it is his 2nd/3rd ranked Barber PR 50c set that got moved over to CACG. If those certs get removed from the PCGS registry, that should still help people out since they are no longer in PCGS plastic.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Completely on the honor system to have 'em removed though, I suspect, especially for as lax as PCGS is about following up on unnecessary details. I know they're not telling NGC to update their population counts every time they crack out a crossover, and likewise, I doubt CAC is letting PCGS know (and I doubt PCGS would act on it if they actually were informed) And, considering more than half the PCGS slabs I buy have me either trying to get the seller to release the cert, or waiting for PCGS to eventually do it automatically, the odds are slim that he's actively removing them from inventory. Plus with the thousands of coins he has to have registered, let's just say that's a lot to stay on top of. If he was actually going to kill off the sets, I have to assume he knows the system well enough to retire the sets and then drop 'em off. With all the reliability problems everyone seems to be having with the registry, and the problems I've seen in my own set, I'm more and more leaning towards the system just randomly dropping out coins on various users. I just went to check to see if his Ike set changed any more, but of course, the site is down again, so...
CAC Grading Announces the Crossover of D.L. Hansen’s Barber Half Dollar Collection.
He has crossed over at least this set and as of yesterday it is still active on the PCGS registry.
It also has not been retired.
Notice the middle PCGS slab with a partial certification number.
He owns the only 2 coins in this grade: pop 2/0.
Time will tell if and how PCGS addresses this.
I am satisfied either way with PCGS'S discission.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
If anyone crosses a coin away from PCGS, it must be removed from an active registry set at the previous (PCGS) service (before it was crossed). The coin no longer exists in a PCGS holder and the Registry is not a collection of insert tags. That has always been my understanding. Do I not have this right? Wondercoin.
Isn't the same true if a coin is sent in to our hosts for regrade ? It's removed from the Registry set ?
@wondercoin Yeah, that's how it's "supposed" to work -- but especially in cases of crossovers, there's nobody around to force any checks and balances - I'd imagine someone could report it to registry, and see if they ever bother to take notice. Whether it's just negligence or contempt, I've had FAR too many times where I've bought a coin, and had to do my automated removal request, wait the three days, and then submit pictures and wait again, because the seller or previous registrant never bothered removing them correctly. I feel safe in saying, if nobody's specifically asking PCGS to inspect/verify a certain given coin cert, they're not paying any attention to issues like that :-/
@Tom147 I'm not sure there - I suspect that one can still 'fly' -- I know I was told directly in the past, once I had grades issued on my submission, that I could enter them into my sets on the registry even though they weren't physically in my hands yet. I suspect the same holds true for these. I've never done a re-consider submission, so I don't know if they come back with a new cert number or not - if the cert stays the same, presumably it'd automatically update the grade in the registry with no interaction needed from the user. And if the cert number changes with a new grade, a streamlined system would automatically update itself there, as well. I think we all can agree we're not working with a streamlined system though, so all bets are off, there LOL. But, you (well, the theoretical submitter...) still own the coin, and right up to the moment it's cracked out, you still own it in that certification number. I don't imagine they'd give much grief over accidental indiscretions there, especially when compared with the concept of having the exact same physical coin represented in both a PCGS and NGC registry set... I'd imagine there would (or at least should) be much stiffer penalties for that sort of thing.
Yes, but that is if the coin is being graded by the same company.
This is being crossed over to another grading company, CACG So it's up to the owner to remove it
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
congrats. It seems many of his 2nd sets are doing very well as well.
Is CAC going to have a set registry?
If not, I do not understand the reason for crossing them over unless a sale was coming and CACG value perceived higher.
I've never crossed. I just know when I send in reconsideration or regrade to our hosts they are temporarily removed from my sets.
As annoying as it may be, he should be allowed to keep both. He still owns the coin, which is what really matters. I still think the CACG crossovers should have the NGC or PCGS cert numbers on the CACG label so that they can rightfully live in both registries.
Seriously???
NO, one coin in one holder per set, period!
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I disagree, Actually he needs to retire the set. This way he remains on the registry for "all time finest", but it allows active collectors who still have coins in PCGS holders to compete for current active sets.
Bingo
Stand by for the announcements
Anyone, rich or poor, who crosses his or her coins out of PCGS and knowingly fails to remove those coins from the PCGS registry has absolutely no regard or respect for fellow collectors IMHO. If PCGS discovers such conduct they should ban such an individual from the PCGS Registry forever after possibly one fair warning to such person. Agreed?
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
As an active participant in the PCGS set registry, I personally make it a habit to remove my coin that I am selling (due to upgrade) I immediately remove it once I have either
**listed it for sale or sent it in to an auction house **
Regarding a coin out of a holder that’s now in a CAC holder or any other TPG service holder.
Once cracked out It is and must be taken out of the population report (PCGS ) and the set should be retired if the set in it’s entirety has been crossed or the set owners coin should be dropped as owning that coin in that set with that PCGS label as that coin can no longer be purchased in that holder with that cert. It’s simple, if that coin no longer is in that holder (we are not talking cac sticker here) how can that be considered a current set as it is shown if the coin in that holder no longer exists? Let’s say that there are 4 examples of the coin in a MS69 2 at NGC and 2 at PCGS, you cross it over and now the CAC population has increased by 1 thus making others believe that 5 examples exist when only 4 actually do, and the one (using
wondercoin as an example as I have seen his sets and work my way into the top 10 in the Kennedy’s) is in Wondercoin’s set and the other in DL Hansens set, Now DL takes his 1 coin and crosses it into a CAC holder, so how is DL Hansens CURRENT registry set accurate? It clearly is not, until PCGS says insert the cert of any TPG services Cert into the registry set it’s pretty cut and dry, remove the coin/ retire the set if you are crossing the entire set, weather your name is DL Hansen or DL Smith… I don’t want to chase ghosts of collections past in the CURRENT Set registry….I already know what’s attainable and what sets I can’t pass that are real and the coins do exist, at least take the ones away that have coins in them that no longer exist… I can’t even believe that something this blatant and obvious is even considered debatable.
My 2 novice cents worth
Scott,
SMY UTAH COLLECTION on the set registry…
I don't think anybody here is considering it particularly debatable (unless I missed a post up there somewhere?) What you (Scott) describe is exactly as it should be, and those who play by the rules are pretty good at respecting that (which I think includes everyone here) -- Your concern about population counts is 100% on point, something I've lamented over for far too long also. With all the crackouts and crossovers, there's no way to keep those numbers accurate, and no faith in being able to trust them. It would be good sportsmanship if the grading companies would at least alert the other issuers when they to a breakout, but I don't even think that happens. As for the rest, well, people are human, some of 'em forget and make mistakes, and some of 'em aren't particularly honest. We have to hope for more of the first category here, but yeah, ya never know
It's been a pet peeve of mine for quite awhile. Buy or win a coin from GC, Heritage, eBay, wherever. On its arrival, I try to enter it into my registry set. Nope !!! Still in somebody elses set. Send the email, wait 3 days, send the timestamped picture. Usually with the weekends involved it's 5 to 7 days before I can enter MY COIN.
Makes me wonder about those coins sold to someone who doesn't do registry. That coin is still in someone elses set. ( no it's not ) A few years ago I quit buying from a particular seller after 7 or 8 different purchases from him. Had to go thru the process on every damn one of them. I complained to our hosts SEVERAL TIMES as their rules state a seller failing to remove a coin from their registry set after dispensing of the coin can have their entire set removed from the registry. THEY WON'T DO IT. Multiple excuses as to why. Best excuse was
" maybe they passed away and the family is selling the collection " OMG !!! So remove the set, if he's dead it doesn't matter.
As for the accuracy of the pop report, not even close. Crack outs to enter coins into albums or to resubmit raw. Actually hurting themselves by increasing the pops, thus possibly lowering the values of the coins. Does anyone truly think those are reported in order to keep the pops accurate ? And crossing a complete set to another TPG. As Wondercoin said, NO RESPECT for their fellow collectors. They should have all their sets removed. But, not holding my breath on that one.
I believe like you that the people on these boards do play by the rules, but something that is obvious to me and I am sure others is this, if we have inflated “Population reports from the TPG” it means when we show 8 graded examples of a coin (4 PCGS, 3-NGC, 1-CAC) the VALUE of your coin if you are an owner or if you sell will more than likely (not always as in the case of 2 people who really want it bid it up) will fall in value thus, hurting your potential profit for that coin if you ever decide to sell it. CAC just came back into grading so if I see a coin in a Heritage or GC auction for example and it’s a 1879 Morgan Silver dollar (using any Coin/Date for this example) that has a population of 6, I find it hard to believe that someone found one in their attic in their great grandparents house in the last 2 months and sent it into CAC to grade the coin and all of a sudden the total population in that coin increased for 5 to 6. I know your thinking well it could have been a 67 that was sent in and then they crossed it and bumped it up to a 68, yes that’s possible, but then the other population of the grade of 67 is overstated. Either way it’s wrong…
I suppose a real world example here - let's tighten it down a bit - say a coin has a PCGS population of 2 in that grade. You've got one of 'em - you're tied for 1st place in the registry. The "other" one? Well, it got cracked out and sent to CAC. Now you have the ONLY one in that grade - which would be worth that extra point, and push you into a "solid" 1st place slot on your collection. Does it happen? Who knows, probably not. Could it? Absolutely. Will they be able to correct it? Also again, probably not :-/
Like you "Ike" photo...
Thanks -- It turned out a LOT better than I had any hope of expecting LOL
While that is the proper and courteous action and what I personally think every collector should do, there is no "law" or requirement to do so. And over the years I have read where many members of this forum have commented that they feel it not only correct but also that they are entitled to use old NGC certs in the NGC registry after crossing those coins into lower graded PCGS holders. I also know several that have continued to use old certs for coins that they cracked for albums, I find this practice to be less egregious but still do not approve of that.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I just noticed the same thing happened to me with my 1888 mint set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/mint-sets/1888-mint-set-gold/album/171209
I suppose I should try to find an animated marching band emoji to put here, but I think I'll just go feed my cat instead!