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Should Denver get rid of Russell Wilson?

doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

They're benching him for the final two games of the season, it's not a done deal, but the late-season benching is a strong indicator Denver will end the Wilson ride after two seasons. Wilson is due $39 million fully guaranteed in 2024.

Comments

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,383 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't know. It seems like he had a revival. Of course the high price tag might be the reason why they don't want him back.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think the benching is over some injury clause in his contract or something like if he gets hurt it triggers some big payment clause?

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2023 12:47PM

    His time in Denver is over. He’s guaranteed $34 M in 2025 and March is the magic month. This is a safe guard against catastrophic injury and the same ploy the raiders used with Carr. Fortunately the Raiders found a buyer.
    Anyone want a slightly used, over paid prima donna for $40M?
    Buyer beware

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some drama in Denver, it appears that Sean Payton is forcing Wilson out.

    Russell Wilson confirms Broncos benched him after demanding he change his contract

    The quarterback was candid about his dismay in his first public comments since being demoted

    Denver Broncos head coach Sean Payton spoke to reporters Friday about Russell Wilson's benching and maintained his story about it being a football move. Moments later, the quarterback flipped the script.

    Wilson wasn't scheduled to address the media. But when approached in the locker room, he took the opportunity to confirm media reports that Denver's front office told him he would be benched for the team's final nine games unless he agreed to delay a contract trigger guaranteeing his 2025 salary.

    “They came up to me during the bye week and beginning of the bye week, Monday or Tuesday, they told me if I didn’t change my contract, my injury guarantee, that I’d be benched the rest of the year,” Wilson said. “I was definitely disappointed about it. It was a process for the whole bye week. We had just come off beating the Chiefs, I was excited for us fighting for the playoffs and getting on a hot streak. Then the NFLPA and NFL got involved, or whatever, at some point.”

    The 35-year-old was candid about his feelings on the situation. Even if he wasn't, the emotion is all over his face:

    His $37 million salary for 2025 becomes fully guaranteed on the fifth day of the 2024 league year, which begins March 13, according to Spotrac. Even if he sustained a major injury in the final weeks of the current season, the $37 million would still be owed to him. The Broncos were always going to be faced with a difficult predicament this offseason, as the team signed Wilson to a five-year extension worth about $242 million before the start of his first season in orange and blue.

    Wilson's mention of the NFL and NFLPA stands out, as neither organization has released statements of acknowledgment or involvement in his situation. Lawyers from the players union were brought in before Wilson decided not to change his contract, Diana Russini of The Athletic reported Wednesday.

    Russini also said Wilson, for two months, has been expecting the Broncos to cut him in March. On Friday, he expressed his desire to remain in Denver.

    “I came here to play here, to win. I knew it was going to be a process. I signed a seven-year deal,” Wilson said. “I want to be here, I want to play here, I want to win championships here.”

    He can't do that without Payton's favor, which he doesn't have. Since confirming Jarrett Stidham would start Sunday against the Los Angeles Chargers, the head coach has publicly said Wilson was demoted in an effort to win games. He held on to that claim Friday, saying he "is not privy" to any conversations between Wilson and the front office.

    “Getting to this eighth win is important," Payton added.

    Wilson, a nine-time Pro Bowl signal-caller, has 3,070 yards, 26 touchdowns, eight interceptions and a 98 passer rating this season.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2023 5:42PM

    Hmm, an interesting quote from ESPN"s Ryan Clark about Sean Payton.

    "Let’s be honest. Sean Payton has behaved as a thug since he became the coach of the Denver Broncos,” Clark said Friday on Get Up. “Immediately when he gets in the building, he starts to undercut Russell Wilson personally and professionally from his first press conference on.”

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2023 6:18PM

    So they approached Wilson after the Broncos beat the Chiefs, Wilson has been playing for the past two months knowing they were going to cut him. He helps them beat the Chiefs for the first time since 2015, and they hit him with that right after the game, screw Denver.

    Wilson called the discussions and the threat to bench him a "low blow."

    "We got to 3-5, beat the Chiefs ... [it] definitely hurt, a low blow," he said.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2023 6:59PM

    Wilson averages 204.7 yards a game. He threw for 300 yards twice back in September and has 7 games with under 200 yards and 11 games with under 250 yards in a passing league since. His QBR is 50.6

    Even Subway thought he was so bad they removed his "signature" sandwich from the menu.

    Clarke and Wilson can say whatever they want. Wilson played his way into getting benched and being cut.

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:
    Wilson averages 204.7 yards a game. He threw for 300 yards twice back in September and has 7 games with under 200 yards and 11 games with under 250 yards in a passing league since. His QBR is 50.6

    Even Subway thought he was so bad they removed his "signature" sandwich from the menu.

    Clarke and Wilson can say whatever they want. Wilson played his way into getting benched and being cut.

    Agreed. Not exactly what they paid for. Not just a massive extension but 2 #1’s , 2 #2’s and 3 players.
    And to Denver’s credit he was still on a two year contract and without him playing a snap they extended it for 7 years. Oh my.

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2023 4:41AM

    .

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i think they should have let him play out a season to make sure of what they were getting before they extended him. that was a risky move

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2023 4:43AM

    @doubledragon said:
    .

    Let’s cut to the real reason that no one wants to say and I’ll get blasted for it.
    Russell Wilson isn’t smart enough or committed enough to learn the offense. End of story.

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭✭

    "Russell Wilson isn’t smart enough or committed enough to learn the offense. End of story."

    Where does that sort of nonsense come from? Saying a QB or player isn't smart enough? What do you base that off of? Because he mistakenly believes his diet and the special water he drinks prevents and/or heals concussions?

    I've watched a bunch of Broncos games and what I have seen is that Wilson no longer has the escapability and mobility that he used to. That leads to him checking it down way too often when his first read isn't immediately open and taking a ton of sacks. I do wonder where the intermediate passing game went, his games are basically all check downs and deep throws. It will be interesting to see what the offense looks like with his replacement. I thought with Jeudy and Sutton that they would be way more dynamic than they turned out to be and that could be on Wilson either giving up on his first read too quickly or not sticking with it long enough. That said, he has been far better than last year under Hackett, a QBR of 50.2 is basically average but there are a lot of NFL teams that would take average QB play. Though not for how much WIlson cost both in $$s and draft picks, lol.

    Robb

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2023 8:17AM

    @fergie23 said:
    "Russell Wilson isn’t smart enough or committed enough to learn the offense. End of story."

    Where does that sort of nonsense come from? Saying a QB or player isn't smart enough? What do you base that off of? Because he mistakenly believes his diet and the special water he drinks prevents and/or heals concussions?

    I've watched a bunch of Broncos games and what I have seen is that Wilson no longer has the escapability and mobility that he used to. That leads to him checking it down way too often when his first read isn't immediately open and taking a ton of sacks. I do wonder where the intermediate passing game went, his games are basically all check downs and deep throws. It will be interesting to see what the offense looks like with his replacement. I thought with Jeudy and Sutton that they would be way more dynamic than they turned out to be and that could be on Wilson either giving up on his first read too quickly or not sticking with it long enough. That said, he has been far better than last year under Hackett, a QBR of 50.2 is basically average but there are a lot of NFL teams that would take average QB play. Though not for how much WIlson cost both in $$s and draft picks, lol.

    Robb

    Read the accompanying articles that Payton wants a QB with iron clad understanding of the offense. I stand by my comment.

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    i think they should have let him play out a season to make sure of what they were getting before they extended him. that was a risky move

    The extension was probably a requirement for the trade with how much they gave up for him. They should have been asking themselves why is Pete Carrol willing to trade him in the first place. Teams never trade star QBs unless they think theyre fading

  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,300 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2023 1:21PM

    so long as the falcons don't make a play for him he can go wherever, we don't need any of that nonsense down here, we already suck enough on O

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sean Payton has treated Wilson like crap from the minute he became the head coach, personal attacks, insults, embarrassing him in front of the media, and Russell Wilson has handled himself with nothing but class throughout it all. I wish him the best wherever he ends up going.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭✭

    Wilson is a 35 year old professional athlete that makes a ton of money. No Peyton was not the issue and no Petyon did not treat him like crap from the second he got there. Expecting more from a player is not treating them like crap. Wilson did however play like crap and theres no point in having coaches anymore if all they can do is say great job go get em next time.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2023 1:59PM

    I would say that Russell wilson most definitely did not "play like crap" this season. he completed 66% of his passes for 3k yards 26 td 8 int and a passer rating of 98. pretty decent. i would have loved to have that production from the crap QB play my patriots have put out this season.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,475 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't know much about this situation, but I just looked at his stats, and they don't look all that bad to me.

    It doesn't seem like he's been phoning it in, but for some reason I guess the coach may think so.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:
    I don't know much about this situation, but I just looked at his stats, and they don't look all that bad to me.

    It doesn't seem like he's been phoning it in, but for some reason I guess the coach may think so.

    I dont have insider knowledge or anything, but I imagine that wilson is not Sean paytons "guy" and payton wants to run the team with "his guy"

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    I would say that Russell wilson most definitely did not "play like crap" this season. he completed 66% of his passes for 3k yards 26 td 8 int and a passer rating of 98. pretty decent. i would have loved to have that production from the crap QB play my patriots have put out this season.

    Wilson has 8 games with under 200 yards and 11 games with under 225 yards in 15 games. He averaged 204.6 yards a game

    Mac Jones who you hate averaged 192.7 yards a game with nothing around him. Wilsons total yards are essentially the same as Garner Minshew.

    The offense was designed to limit turnovers and they had the most expensive game manager in NFL history. The criticisms of his play were justified.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:
    I would say that Russell wilson most definitely did not "play like crap" this season. he completed 66% of his passes for 3k yards 26 td 8 int and a passer rating of 98. pretty decent. i would have loved to have that production from the crap QB play my patriots have put out this season.

    Wilson has 8 games with under 200 yards and 11 games with under 225 yards in 15 games. He averaged 204.6 yards a game

    Mac Jones who you hate averaged 192.7 yards a game with nothing around him. Wilsons total yards are essentially the same as Garner Minshew.

    The offense was designed to limit turnovers and they had the most expensive game manager in NFL history. The criticisms of his play were justified.

    26 and 8. 6th in the league in TD passes. those are good numbers. you said he "played like crap" you are incorrect. he did not.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wilson sorta set himself up for Payton to look at him with disdain, after last season where he had his own office and you had to contact his agent or other Broncos admin to have a conversation with the guy, I'm not saying Wilson deserved to get treated bad but Payton is old school and wants to put the blame on him for the offense struggling and not getting it done.

    I like Wilson but don't believe he will earn that contract in Denver or anywhere else for that matter

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2023 2:37PM

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:
    I would say that Russell wilson most definitely did not "play like crap" this season. he completed 66% of his passes for 3k yards 26 td 8 int and a passer rating of 98. pretty decent. i would have loved to have that production from the crap QB play my patriots have put out this season.

    Wilson has 8 games with under 200 yards and 11 games with under 225 yards in 15 games. He averaged 204.6 yards a game

    Mac Jones who you hate averaged 192.7 yards a game with nothing around him. Wilsons total yards are essentially the same as Garner Minshew.

    The offense was designed to limit turnovers and they had the most expensive game manager in NFL history. The criticisms of his play were justified.

    26 and 8. 6th in the league in TD passes. those are good numbers. you said he "played like crap" you are incorrect. he did not.

    Youre ignoring everything else other that. 8 of 15 games with under 200 yards in 2023 means the team is the reason for the success and someone is getting paid 40 million to benefit from it. Denver is a top 10 team in defensive turnovers.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm sure it was Wilson's fault the defense gave up 42 points against the Lions, and gave up 20 points in the 3rd quarter against the Patriots too huh? Sean Payton has dug into Wilson from the minute he stepped foot in Denver, he calls Wilson out in front of the media about the private office, and then there's the insult about kissing babies, then ripping into Wilson on national TV on the sidelines during the Lions game. And what kind of a head coach tells his starting quarterback, after beating the Chiefs, that he's going to be benched if he doesn't change his contract that was already agreed upon? Eight games into the season, you just beat the Chiefs and you're team is fighting like hell to try to turn the season around, and you basically tell your quarterback, hey, we're going to cut you. And now you're starting Jarrett Stidham over Wilson? Sean Payton is basically tanking the rest of the season, wave the White flag Sean. What a joke, he can stick his playbook up his ass, a lot of good it did him in New Orleans, all those years with Drew Brees, one of the best passers in history, and 1 super bowl was all he got, what a joke.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2023 3:18PM

    Theres teammates that have said on podcasts that they had to go through Wilsons agents/people to get in touch with him.

    I get if people dont like Peyton but lets stop pretending Wilson is some sort of victim here and didnt bring it upon himself with both his play and off the field things

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2023 4:01PM

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:
    I would say that Russell wilson most definitely did not "play like crap" this season. he completed 66% of his passes for 3k yards 26 td 8 int and a passer rating of 98. pretty decent. i would have loved to have that production from the crap QB play my patriots have put out this season.

    Wilson has 8 games with under 200 yards and 11 games with under 225 yards in 15 games. He averaged 204.6 yards a game

    Mac Jones who you hate averaged 192.7 yards a game with nothing around him. Wilsons total yards are essentially the same as Garner Minshew.

    The offense was designed to limit turnovers and they had the most expensive game manager in NFL history. The criticisms of his play were justified.

    26 and 8. 6th in the league in TD passes. those are good numbers. you said he "played like crap" you are incorrect. he did not.

    Youre ignoring everything else other that. 8 of 15 games with under 200 yards in 2023 means the team is the reason for the success and someone is getting paid 40 million to benefit from it. Denver is a top 10 team in defensive turnovers.

    the name of the game is TD's and Turnovers. Wilson is tied for 3rd fewest Turnovers. fewer than Allen, Mahomes, Hurts and Tua. He is tied for 4th in TD's with Tua and Mahomes. He is right there with allen, mahomes, burrow and lamar for comp. %. He is averaging the exact same yards/attempt as Mahomes and is just a tick behind Allen.

    ALL you are looking at is yards. if he threw as often as mahomes, he would have in the same ballpark of yards as him. as well as more TD's and probably still have fewer turnovers.

    you are the one who said Wilson "played like crap"

    again, you are incorrect. He has not "played like crap"

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:
    I would say that Russell wilson most definitely did not "play like crap" this season. he completed 66% of his passes for 3k yards 26 td 8 int and a passer rating of 98. pretty decent. i would have loved to have that production from the crap QB play my patriots have put out this season.

    Wilson has 8 games with under 200 yards and 11 games with under 225 yards in 15 games. He averaged 204.6 yards a game

    Mac Jones who you hate averaged 192.7 yards a game with nothing around him. Wilsons total yards are essentially the same as Garner Minshew.

    The offense was designed to limit turnovers and they had the most expensive game manager in NFL history. The criticisms of his play were justified.

    26 and 8. 6th in the league in TD passes. those are good numbers. you said he "played like crap" you are incorrect. he did not.

    Youre ignoring everything else other that. 8 of 15 games with under 200 yards in 2023 means the team is the reason for the success and someone is getting paid 40 million to benefit from it. Denver is a top 10 team in defensive turnovers.

    the name of the game is TD's and Turnovers. Wilson is tied for 3rd fewest Turnovers. fewer than Allen, Mahomes, Hurts and Tua. He is tied for 4th in TD's with Tua and Mahomes. He is right there with allen, mahomes, burrow and lamar for comp. %. He is averaging the exact same yards/attempt as Mahomes and is just a tick behind Allen.

    ALL you are looking at is yards. if he threw as often as mahomes, he would have in the same ballpark of yards as him. as well as more TD's and probably still have fewer turnovers.

    you are the one who said Wilson "played like crap"

    again, you are incorrect. He has not "played like crap"

    Yards arent all I am looking at. Im looking at the big picture. A team could put a QB in at first and goal every game and they would have the TDs and few turnovers. The lack of yards in the majority of games is an issue that is showing declining skill which happens to everyone or just not being good anymore.

    Wilson is 15th in pass attempts, 18th in yards, 21st in average yards per attempt, 18th in average yards a game, 21st in QBR,

    Thats not someone you risk having to pay an extra 37 million if they get hurt or pay like an elite QB going into their age 36 season.

    Sure you could replace the word crap with very very average at best. He doesnt throw as much as the top QBs because they know it would be a disaster. Geno Smith has played 2 fewer games and has more yards with fewer attempts. Wilson would be further down the list if Burrow and Cousins didnt get hurt

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2023 4:51PM

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:
    I would say that Russell wilson most definitely did not "play like crap" this season. he completed 66% of his passes for 3k yards 26 td 8 int and a passer rating of 98. pretty decent. i would have loved to have that production from the crap QB play my patriots have put out this season.

    Wilson has 8 games with under 200 yards and 11 games with under 225 yards in 15 games. He averaged 204.6 yards a game

    Mac Jones who you hate averaged 192.7 yards a game with nothing around him. Wilsons total yards are essentially the same as Garner Minshew.

    The offense was designed to limit turnovers and they had the most expensive game manager in NFL history. The criticisms of his play were justified.

    26 and 8. 6th in the league in TD passes. those are good numbers. you said he "played like crap" you are incorrect. he did not.

    Youre ignoring everything else other that. 8 of 15 games with under 200 yards in 2023 means the team is the reason for the success and someone is getting paid 40 million to benefit from it. Denver is a top 10 team in defensive turnovers.

    the name of the game is TD's and Turnovers. Wilson is tied for 3rd fewest Turnovers. fewer than Allen, Mahomes, Hurts and Tua. He is tied for 4th in TD's with Tua and Mahomes. He is right there with allen, mahomes, burrow and lamar for comp. %. He is averaging the exact same yards/attempt as Mahomes and is just a tick behind Allen.

    ALL you are looking at is yards. if he threw as often as mahomes, he would have in the same ballpark of yards as him. as well as more TD's and probably still have fewer turnovers.

    you are the one who said Wilson "played like crap"

    again, you are incorrect. He has not "played like crap"

    Yards arent all I am looking at. Im looking at the big picture. A team could put a QB in at first and goal every game and they would have the TDs and few turnovers. The lack of yards in the majority of games is an issue that is showing declining skill which happens to everyone or just not being good anymore.

    Wilson is 15th in pass attempts, 18th in yards, 21st in average yards per attempt, 18th in average yards a game, 21st in QBR,

    Thats not someone you risk having to pay an extra 37 million if they get hurt or pay like an elite QB going into their age 36 season.

    Sure you could replace the word crap with very very average at best. He doesnt throw as much as the top QBs because they know it would be a disaster. Geno Smith has played 2 fewer games and has more yards with fewer attempts. Wilson would be further down the list if Burrow and Cousins didnt get hurt

    ok, we are making progress. you have conceded that Wilson has not "played like crap"

    now, if he is "very, very average at best" then there are also lots of other top QBs who are also very very average at best.

    Wilson ranks at the top of the league in TD's, comp perc. yards/att. turnovers. you state that it would be a "disaster" if he were to throw more. how is that a disaster? It hasnt been a "disaster" as of yet. or has Mahomes season been a "disaster?" Allen? lamar?

    you will come around.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2023 5:01PM

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:
    I would say that Russell wilson most definitely did not "play like crap" this season. he completed 66% of his passes for 3k yards 26 td 8 int and a passer rating of 98. pretty decent. i would have loved to have that production from the crap QB play my patriots have put out this season.

    Wilson has 8 games with under 200 yards and 11 games with under 225 yards in 15 games. He averaged 204.6 yards a game

    Mac Jones who you hate averaged 192.7 yards a game with nothing around him. Wilsons total yards are essentially the same as Garner Minshew.

    The offense was designed to limit turnovers and they had the most expensive game manager in NFL history. The criticisms of his play were justified.

    26 and 8. 6th in the league in TD passes. those are good numbers. you said he "played like crap" you are incorrect. he did not.

    Youre ignoring everything else other that. 8 of 15 games with under 200 yards in 2023 means the team is the reason for the success and someone is getting paid 40 million to benefit from it. Denver is a top 10 team in defensive turnovers.

    the name of the game is TD's and Turnovers. Wilson is tied for 3rd fewest Turnovers. fewer than Allen, Mahomes, Hurts and Tua. He is tied for 4th in TD's with Tua and Mahomes. He is right there with allen, mahomes, burrow and lamar for comp. %. He is averaging the exact same yards/attempt as Mahomes and is just a tick behind Allen.

    ALL you are looking at is yards. if he threw as often as mahomes, he would have in the same ballpark of yards as him. as well as more TD's and probably still have fewer turnovers.

    you are the one who said Wilson "played like crap"

    again, you are incorrect. He has not "played like crap"

    Yards arent all I am looking at. Im looking at the big picture. A team could put a QB in at first and goal every game and they would have the TDs and few turnovers. The lack of yards in the majority of games is an issue that is showing declining skill which happens to everyone or just not being good anymore.

    Wilson is 15th in pass attempts, 18th in yards, 21st in average yards per attempt, 18th in average yards a game, 21st in QBR,

    Thats not someone you risk having to pay an extra 37 million if they get hurt or pay like an elite QB going into their age 36 season.

    Sure you could replace the word crap with very very average at best. He doesnt throw as much as the top QBs because they know it would be a disaster. Geno Smith has played 2 fewer games and has more yards with fewer attempts. Wilson would be further down the list if Burrow and Cousins didnt get hurt

    ok, we are making progress. you have conceded that Wilson has not "played like crap"

    now, if he is "very, very average at best" then there are also lots of other top QBs who are also very very average at best.

    Wilson ranks at the top of the league in TD's, comp perc. yards/att. turnovers. you state that it would be a "disaster" if he were to throw more. how is that a disaster? It hasnt been a "disaster" as of yet. or has Mahomes season been a "disaster?" Allen? lamar?

    you will come around.

    Completion percentage is a false stat in football. You can make it 90+ percent depending on the plays you call. The total yardage and the fact that 20 percent of his yards came in two games and the number of games under 200 yards shows that.

    Mahmones by his standards had a down year. KC got rid of basically all his weapons and KC leads the league in dropped passes. Lamar is and always has been a hyrbid passer rusher who has almost 800 rushing yards. Allen hasnt been his best season and still averages over 250 yards a game

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:
    I would say that Russell wilson most definitely did not "play like crap" this season. he completed 66% of his passes for 3k yards 26 td 8 int and a passer rating of 98. pretty decent. i would have loved to have that production from the crap QB play my patriots have put out this season.

    Wilson has 8 games with under 200 yards and 11 games with under 225 yards in 15 games. He averaged 204.6 yards a game

    Mac Jones who you hate averaged 192.7 yards a game with nothing around him. Wilsons total yards are essentially the same as Garner Minshew.

    The offense was designed to limit turnovers and they had the most expensive game manager in NFL history. The criticisms of his play were justified.

    26 and 8. 6th in the league in TD passes. those are good numbers. you said he "played like crap" you are incorrect. he did not.

    Youre ignoring everything else other that. 8 of 15 games with under 200 yards in 2023 means the team is the reason for the success and someone is getting paid 40 million to benefit from it. Denver is a top 10 team in defensive turnovers.

    the name of the game is TD's and Turnovers. Wilson is tied for 3rd fewest Turnovers. fewer than Allen, Mahomes, Hurts and Tua. He is tied for 4th in TD's with Tua and Mahomes. He is right there with allen, mahomes, burrow and lamar for comp. %. He is averaging the exact same yards/attempt as Mahomes and is just a tick behind Allen.

    ALL you are looking at is yards. if he threw as often as mahomes, he would have in the same ballpark of yards as him. as well as more TD's and probably still have fewer turnovers.

    you are the one who said Wilson "played like crap"

    again, you are incorrect. He has not "played like crap"

    Yards arent all I am looking at. Im looking at the big picture. A team could put a QB in at first and goal every game and they would have the TDs and few turnovers. The lack of yards in the majority of games is an issue that is showing declining skill which happens to everyone or just not being good anymore.

    Wilson is 15th in pass attempts, 18th in yards, 21st in average yards per attempt, 18th in average yards a game, 21st in QBR,

    Thats not someone you risk having to pay an extra 37 million if they get hurt or pay like an elite QB going into their age 36 season.

    Sure you could replace the word crap with very very average at best. He doesnt throw as much as the top QBs because they know it would be a disaster. Geno Smith has played 2 fewer games and has more yards with fewer attempts. Wilson would be further down the list if Burrow and Cousins didnt get hurt

    ok, we are making progress. you have conceded that Wilson has not "played like crap"

    now, if he is "very, very average at best" then there are also lots of other top QBs who are also very very average at best.

    Wilson ranks at the top of the league in TD's, comp perc. yards/att. turnovers. you state that it would be a "disaster" if he were to throw more. how is that a disaster? It hasnt been a "disaster" as of yet. or has Mahomes season been a "disaster?" Allen? lamar?

    you will come around.

    Completion percentage is a false stat in football. You can make it 90+ percent depending on the plays you call. The total yardage and the fact that 20 percent of his yards came in two games and the number of games under 200 yards shows that.

    Mahmones by his standards had a down year. KC got rid of basically all his weapons and KC leads the league in dropped passes. Lamar is and always has been a hyrbid passer rusher who has almost 800 rushing yards. Allen hasnt been his best season and still averages over 250 yards a game

    you just made a whole bunch of excuses there.

    sounds like you are making excuses as to why the aforementioned star QBs are playing at a similar level to Mr. Wilson.

    perhaps you need to rethink your hypothesis that Wilson has been "very very average at best" and a "disaster"

    or you could just make up some more excuses as to why Allen, mahomes and jackson havent lapped wilson this season.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2023 6:40PM

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:
    I would say that Russell wilson most definitely did not "play like crap" this season. he completed 66% of his passes for 3k yards 26 td 8 int and a passer rating of 98. pretty decent. i would have loved to have that production from the crap QB play my patriots have put out this season.

    Wilson has 8 games with under 200 yards and 11 games with under 225 yards in 15 games. He averaged 204.6 yards a game

    Mac Jones who you hate averaged 192.7 yards a game with nothing around him. Wilsons total yards are essentially the same as Garner Minshew.

    The offense was designed to limit turnovers and they had the most expensive game manager in NFL history. The criticisms of his play were justified.

    26 and 8. 6th in the league in TD passes. those are good numbers. you said he "played like crap" you are incorrect. he did not.

    Youre ignoring everything else other that. 8 of 15 games with under 200 yards in 2023 means the team is the reason for the success and someone is getting paid 40 million to benefit from it. Denver is a top 10 team in defensive turnovers.

    the name of the game is TD's and Turnovers. Wilson is tied for 3rd fewest Turnovers. fewer than Allen, Mahomes, Hurts and Tua. He is tied for 4th in TD's with Tua and Mahomes. He is right there with allen, mahomes, burrow and lamar for comp. %. He is averaging the exact same yards/attempt as Mahomes and is just a tick behind Allen.

    ALL you are looking at is yards. if he threw as often as mahomes, he would have in the same ballpark of yards as him. as well as more TD's and probably still have fewer turnovers.

    you are the one who said Wilson "played like crap"

    again, you are incorrect. He has not "played like crap"

    Yards arent all I am looking at. Im looking at the big picture. A team could put a QB in at first and goal every game and they would have the TDs and few turnovers. The lack of yards in the majority of games is an issue that is showing declining skill which happens to everyone or just not being good anymore.

    Wilson is 15th in pass attempts, 18th in yards, 21st in average yards per attempt, 18th in average yards a game, 21st in QBR,

    Thats not someone you risk having to pay an extra 37 million if they get hurt or pay like an elite QB going into their age 36 season.

    Sure you could replace the word crap with very very average at best. He doesnt throw as much as the top QBs because they know it would be a disaster. Geno Smith has played 2 fewer games and has more yards with fewer attempts. Wilson would be further down the list if Burrow and Cousins didnt get hurt

    ok, we are making progress. you have conceded that Wilson has not "played like crap"

    now, if he is "very, very average at best" then there are also lots of other top QBs who are also very very average at best.

    Wilson ranks at the top of the league in TD's, comp perc. yards/att. turnovers. you state that it would be a "disaster" if he were to throw more. how is that a disaster? It hasnt been a "disaster" as of yet. or has Mahomes season been a "disaster?" Allen? lamar?

    you will come around.

    Completion percentage is a false stat in football. You can make it 90+ percent depending on the plays you call. The total yardage and the fact that 20 percent of his yards came in two games and the number of games under 200 yards shows that.

    Mahmones by his standards had a down year. KC got rid of basically all his weapons and KC leads the league in dropped passes. Lamar is and always has been a hyrbid passer rusher who has almost 800 rushing yards. Allen hasnt been his best season and still averages over 250 yards a game

    you just made a whole bunch of excuses there.

    sounds like you are making excuses as to why the aforementioned star QBs are playing at a similar level to Mr. Wilson.

    perhaps you need to rethink your hypothesis that Wilson has been "very very average at best" and a "disaster"

    or you could just make up some more excuses as to why Allen, mahomes and jackson havent lapped wilson this season.

    What excuses did I make? That Allen is having a down year and is still better? That Lamar rushes for 800 yards or more a year to go along with his passing? The KC leads the league in dropped passes yet Maholmes is still better despite having a down year? Those are facts

    The Chiefs currently lead the league. The Bills are tied for 7th. The Broncos are 4th to LAST for dropped passes with the 49ers having the fewest

    Broncos are 6th to last in pass yards yet betting 4th to last in drops

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,907 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fergie23 said:
    "Russell Wilson isn’t smart enough or committed enough to learn the offense. End of story."

    >

    It was reported last year that, halfway through the season, Wilson was using Seattle audible calls.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You want to know what kind of man Russell Wilson really is? Here you go, he does this regularly.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2023 4:36AM

    I know I post a lot of silly Russell Wilson memes, but I have nothing but the upmost respect for him as a human being and as a player.

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2023 5:51AM

    @doubledragon said:
    I know I post a lot of silly Russell Wilson memes, but I have nothing but the upmost respect for him as a human being and as a player.

    No one has said anything bad about his character. But when he demands a private office, a buffer between coaches and players it tells something about who he thinks he is on a football team.
    Russ has played these two years like he still thinks he’s 25 years old, 20 pounds lighter and 2 steps quicker. He thinks he can run around and make plays like 10 years ago.
    Payton wanted him to play within the offense. Make the plays the way they were designed. In other words, listen to the coach. He either couldn’t or wouldn’t.

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @2dueces said:

    @doubledragon said:
    I know I post a lot of silly Russell Wilson memes, but I have nothing but the upmost respect for him as a human being and as a player.

    No one has said anything bad about his character. But when he demands a private office, a buffer between coaches and players it tells something about who he thinks he is on a football team.
    Russ has played these two years like he still thinks he’s 25 years old, 20 pounds lighter and 2 steps quicker. He thinks he can run around and make plays like 10 years ago.
    Payton wanted him to play within the offense. Make the plays the way they were designed. In other words, listen to the coach. He either couldn’t or wouldn’t.

    Yeah Yeah, I know, he's stupid and lazy. It's kinda weird though that some of his teammates came to his defense.

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:

    @2dueces said:

    @doubledragon said:
    I know I post a lot of silly Russell Wilson memes, but I have nothing but the upmost respect for him as a human being and as a player.

    No one has said anything bad about his character. But when he demands a private office, a buffer between coaches and players it tells something about who he thinks he is on a football team.
    Russ has played these two years like he still thinks he’s 25 years old, 20 pounds lighter and 2 steps quicker. He thinks he can run around and make plays like 10 years ago.
    Payton wanted him to play within the offense. Make the plays the way they were designed. In other words, listen to the coach. He either couldn’t or wouldn’t.

    Yeah Yeah, I know, he's stupid and lazy. It's kinda weird though that some of his teammates came to his defense.

    Whatever. He’s out. He’s part of the worst trade in sports history and will handicap the Broncos for the next 3+ years. When other teams are applying their #1 and #2 draft choices the Broncos will be picking 50th.

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good, I hope coach bountygate finds his type of quarterback!

  • edwardjulioedwardjulio Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2023 9:47AM

    "Let's Ride" - off into the sunset. Season ticket holder since 1984. Probably the last season.

    End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 7,911 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭✭

    Wilson was terrible last year (with terrible coaching) and has been average this year. Not exactly what the Broncos paid a fortune in cash and draft picks for. However, people are just so willing to get on board the character assassination bandwagon without performing any critical thinking of their own.

    Wilson was benched because the Broncos plan to trade/cut him and don't want to be on the hook for the $37 million dollar injury guarantee. Sean Payton is simply lying when he says his benching is performance related. I mean, did you watch Stidham against the 30th ranked passing defense on Sunday? His longest pass was basically a 15 yard crossing pattern that the WR took to the house after breaking a bunch of tackles. It will be interesting to see how the Broncos do next year without Wilson.

    The Raiders thought that David Carr was their problem (and did the same bench him to not be on the hook for his injury guarantee route) but that was obviously not the case given how their season has gone. I don't think Wilson has played to the value of this contract, or future value, but an average quarterback can lead a team to the playoffs these days. I am not sure the Broncos will find someone that much better in free agency or the the draft but I think they are better off with a QB on a rookie contract for the next couple of years to get their salary cap back in order after all the Wilson dead money they will have to absorb.

    Robb

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    QB play as a whole has regressed this season. there is no one close to 5K yards or 45-50 TD this year even with the extra game in play. There have been some good QB seasons this year, but nothing that will go down as all time.

    It is strange as the league has tried to open up the offensive side of the ball to more scoring/yardage with rule changes in the last 10-15 years. you would think, especially with the extra game that 5k yards would be much more common, but it was more so a number of years ago when Brees did it a bunch of times, Brady did it multiple times and Manning also. I am starting to think that the current crop may not be as skilled as the previous generation.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,907 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:

    @2dueces said:

    @doubledragon said:
    I know I post a lot of silly Russell Wilson memes, but I have nothing but the upmost respect for him as a human being and as a player.

    No one has said anything bad about his character. But when he demands a private office, a buffer between coaches and players it tells something about who he thinks he is on a football team.
    Russ has played these two years like he still thinks he’s 25 years old, 20 pounds lighter and 2 steps quicker. He thinks he can run around and make plays like 10 years ago.
    Payton wanted him to play within the offense. Make the plays the way they were designed. In other words, listen to the coach. He either couldn’t or wouldn’t.

    Yeah Yeah, I know, he's stupid and lazy. It's kinda weird though that some of his teammates came to his defense.

    Those tweets appear to be from last season. How about this year?

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

    .

    @Tabe said:

    @doubledragon said:

    @2dueces said:

    @doubledragon said:
    I know I post a lot of silly Russell Wilson memes, but I have nothing but the upmost respect for him as a human being and as a player.

    No one has said anything bad about his character. But when he demands a private office, a buffer between coaches and players it tells something about who he thinks he is on a football team.
    Russ has played these two years like he still thinks he’s 25 years old, 20 pounds lighter and 2 steps quicker. He thinks he can run around and make plays like 10 years ago.
    Payton wanted him to play within the offense. Make the plays the way they were designed. In other words, listen to the coach. He either couldn’t or wouldn’t.

    Yeah Yeah, I know, he's stupid and lazy. It's kinda weird though that some of his teammates came to his defense.

    Those tweets appear to be from last season. How about this year?

    I never said they were from this year, I was posting them to show that not everyone that has played with him views Russell Wilson as a bad teammate. You want to talk about being a bad teammate, Sean Payton makes Russell Wilson look like a choir boy.

    Bounty-gate
    Bounty gate may be old news to some, but it isn’t so long ago that it should be completely forgotten. It was a massive scandal, and for a good reason. As the head coach and leader of the Saints, Payton oversaw a bonus system that rewarded players for injuring opposing players.

    The mastermind of this dubious scheme was then-Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, but as the head coach, Payton should have immediately put a stop to this wicked plan, but he did the opposite. The investigation revealed that Payton knew about the bounties and tried to cover it up.

    This is a massive character flaw. Payton allowed incentives to injure other players. Think about that for a moment. His character is such that he was just fine with ending another person’s career or, worse, for his success on the playing field.

    Payton was suspended for a season, and some would say that he served his “sentence,” but that doesn’t change one’s character, especially when he was back on the field like nothing happened the following season.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    bounty-gate was about as bad as it gets for me. a program designed to injure opposing players is about as low as it gets

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,137 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It was a horrible trade, but Wilson hasn't played badly.
    I sure wish Cousins wouldn't have gotten hurt. Might have shut a few people up who think he's "awful".

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,137 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    bounty-gate was about as bad as it gets for me. a program designed to injure opposing players is about as low as it gets

    Players and or coaches who attempt to injure the opponents top players (or any players) should be banned from the league forever.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,427 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    @craig44 said:
    I would say that Russell wilson most definitely did not "play like crap" this season. he completed 66% of his passes for 3k yards 26 td 8 int and a passer rating of 98. pretty decent. i would have loved to have that production from the crap QB play my patriots have put out this season.

    Wilson has 8 games with under 200 yards and 11 games with under 225 yards in 15 games. He averaged 204.6 yards a game

    Mac Jones who you hate averaged 192.7 yards a game with nothing around him. Wilsons total yards are essentially the same as Garner Minshew.

    The offense was designed to limit turnovers and they had the most expensive game manager in NFL history. The criticisms of his play were justified.

    how much of that low avg. yds/game passing is a result of the offense system that the Broncos installed? Broncos O has sucked for many years, so.............


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