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If you have a damaged PCGS slab would it be unethical to fix it yourself?

braddickbraddick Posts: 22,856 ✭✭✭✭✭

If you own coins housed in damaged slabs, such as these:



Would it OK in your book to take these:


And, by taking the original insert, "fix" this problem for yourself rather than sending in your coins
to PCGS to have them do it for you (at a fee plus wait time)?

And, if it is okay for your collection, would you reveal what you have done when it comes time to sell?

peacockcoins

Comments

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not if you're keeping it for yourself. Yes, if you're selling it without revealing it.

    They're not yours are they?

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • MarkKelleyMarkKelley Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IMHO, no. Once a slab is compromised to this degree, it is no longer sealed and should be treated the same as a coin that has been removed from the slab. The grade can no longer be guaranteed.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,856 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:
    Not if you're keeping it for yourself. Yes, if you're selling it without revealing it.

    They're not yours are they?

    No. They're examples I found in a Google search.
    I've always thought if the coin is the real deal and the insert is the real deal then the plastic that houses these two
    identifyers shouldn't matter.
    I am having second thoughts on that now and it may well be someone else who sells these type of "fixed" coins down the road without the knowledge of the earlier "repair".

    peacockcoins

  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It doesn't really matter for your own collection, but IMO would be highly unethical to sell like that. I would think that would be the foolish route to go, however, versus just sending the damaged slab and coin to PCGS to see if they will just reholder it, if it's not in pieces.

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:

    @OAKSTAR said:
    Not if you're keeping it for yourself. Yes, if you're selling it without revealing it.

    They're not yours are they?

    No. They're examples I found in a Google search.
    I've always thought if the coin is the real deal and the insert is the real deal then the plastic that houses these two
    identifyers shouldn't matter.
    I am having second thoughts on that now and it may well be someone else who sells these type of "fixed" coins down the road without the knowledge of the earlier "repair".

    I think any TPG'ers slab that's been tampered with in any way, must be noted, identified and revealed.

    I'm just wondering the circumstances for that damage without intentionally breaking them open!?!?

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,691 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2023 1:16PM

    Out of its original slab, a coin can only be considered as a raw coin.

    I wouldn't do it, as it unknowingly sets up some future owner for disappointment.

  • jonrunsjonruns Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unethical and fraudulent if you sell.

    And IMHO just stupid and cheap. If it's an inexpensive coin just keep it raw; if a more expensive coin send it in to be re-slabbed.

  • WAYNEASWAYNEAS Posts: 6,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am in the no group.
    I would have them sent back to the TPG for re-holdering.
    Any coin that can come out of the holder, should be sent back for re-grading.
    Wayne

    Kennedys are my quest...

  • You are saving in the long run to send to PCGS, call and talk to them or email them about it if not call NGC and ask them..eith er way you are not saving money trying to do it yourself, make sure you take lots of pictures and send the pictures with the email to PCGS or NGC

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,537 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agree with most of the above comments.

    To add: you would lose the WTC provenance if you crack that one out yourself.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,209 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Where did you get the PCGS slab shells? Are they real or are they counterfeit shells?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    Where did you get the PCGS slab shells? Are they real or are they counterfeit shells?

    Id like to know also, I could use them for place makers in my PCGS boxes when the coin is in another box

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No one is fooled in 2023 with manipulative games. You just antagonize people with trying to fix broken things like that and few people will trust you again.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,856 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    Where did you get the PCGS slab shells? Are they real or are they counterfeit shells?

    AlliedExpress.com

    peacockcoins

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,859 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can do whatever you want with your own coins, but the moment they are released to the market, something like this is absolutely unacceptable. A PCGS graded coin is one that is still sealed in its holder. In this case, the coin would be no better than a raw, cracked out coin, but in a holder whose sole purpose is deception.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The re-slab fee is not that much and you can take the opportunity to get a Trueview. Are you really that determined to save a few dollars?

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2023 8:23PM

    AlliedExpress.com
    A one stop shop for counterfeiters

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,856 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    Where did you get the PCGS slab shells? Are they real or are they counterfeit shells?

    AlliedExpress.com> @ProofCollection said:

    The re-slab fee is not that much and you can take the opportunity to get a Trueview. Are you really that determined to save a few dollars?

    Please don't personalize this. The question was a hyperthetical for us to discuss.
    My personal opinion doesn't differ from yours.

    peacockcoins

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,626 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As has been written doing this for your own collection is not unethical, it is when the time comes to sell that the issue of ethics will be a problem. Obviously if you are the one that sells and disclose the non original slab that is one thing. but what about if you are not the one doing the selling. Say a collector unfortunately passes away unexpectedly and suddenly, say a plane crash as an example., unless he/she have left behind detailed written instructions on how to handle this (or perhaps multiple) coin and how to disclose the issue the heirs may inadvertently attempt to sell without proper disclosure.

    How many times have we seen ebay auctions that are incorrect or incorrectly worded which could be caused by just this type of misunderstanding by an heir or relative. In the end it really is not the smart or correct way to resolve a problem.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,209 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ProofCollection said:
    The re-slab fee is not that much and you can take the opportunity to get a Trueview. Are you really that determined to save a few dollars?

    Considering what I'm seeing in the pics, I'm sure PCGS would treat these coins as if they were raw and wouldn't just reholder them.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That WTC ASE sure has had a hard life!

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the damage is so severe that the Coin could be taken out of the slab it must be repaired or fixed by the TPGS. Otherwise, selling them undamaged without disclosure of any homemade repairs is unethical.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set:

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,338 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2023 8:55AM

    .

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,338 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ProofCollection said:
    The re-slab fee is not that much and you can take the opportunity to get a Trueview. Are you really that determined to save a few dollars?

    And what if it isn't worth the cost of reslabbing?

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,603 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Once it's out of an authentic slab, it's a raw coin. There are a few reasons I wouldn't use a fake slab, even just within my collection:
    1. It supports the fake slab industry
    2. A former grade is irrelevant on a raw coin.
    3. It could be sold in the fake holder inadvertently, and then you'd have some 'splaining to do, including to the grading service whose slab you're imitating.

  • Well you don't have many options when considering your reputation.

  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @messydesk said:
    Once it's out of an authentic slab, it's a raw coin. There are a few reasons I wouldn't use a fake slab, even just within my collection:
    1. It supports the fake slab industry
    2. A former grade is irrelevant on a raw coin.
    3. It could be sold in the fake holder inadvertently, and then you'd have some 'splaining to do, including to the grading service whose slab you're imitating.

    I agree 100%.

    When in doubt, don't.
  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I didn’t read all the other responses so I can try and give unbiased answer.

    If you personally remove a coin and an insert and either put the coin in an album and keep the insert or if you put the coin in a homemade slab and put the insert in with it, it’s perfectly acceptable to keep in your own personal collection. If you end up selling it, it’s definitely ok to say that you personally cracked it out and you kept the insert. Since you know you cracked it out you can honestly say you did so and kept the insert. The risk in selling such a coin is if you include the insert then the buyer might doctor the coin and/or switch it out. If the coin has a Trueview then it’s less risky because people can check out the Trueview to verify it’s the same coin.

    You really can’t insure the person who buys the coin won’t try to defraud with it, but in reality any legit slabbed coin can be cracked out and people can take the insert and do the same fraud. My dad used to repeat an old quote whenever talking about security, it’s the one that says “Locks are just to keep honest people honest, but a thief can’t be stopped if they are truly determined”. You can do things to make it less convenient to a thief as a deterrent, but that’s all you can do if they are highly motivated.

    That’s my thoughts.

    Mr_Spud

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:

    And, by taking the original insert, "fix" this problem for yourself rather than sending in your coins
    to PCGS to have them do it for you (at a fee plus wait time)?

    And, if it is okay for your collection, would you reveal what you have done when it comes time to sell?

    In my personal opinion, "yes" and "absolutely yes" are my answers. I would always disclose and make sure it is absolutely clear if I were to sell after "fixing" them myself.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • KSorboKSorbo Posts: 102 ✭✭✭

    Once a slab is damaged to the point of having to be regraded, any “repairs” that are made will only turn it into a fake slab. So to knowingly sell the coin without disclosing the history would be not only unethical, but fraudulent. Even if done for a personal collection, what happens when the heirs sell the collection after the collector passes away?

  • RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 518 ✭✭✭✭

    if the glove (the slab) doesn't fit (is cracked) you must acquit (disclose)

  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2023 8:41PM

    I don't recommend trying to self-holder any coin from a damaged holder by taking the coin and insert and adding it to a PCGS or any TPG template holder. They'll wind up being sold, and if that coin doesn't straight grade when submitted, the buyer is going to question the deal. I would get the coin regraded.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2023 7:25PM

    This is another one of those cluck cluck elevator goes to the basement threads lol - a better question is a damaged slab even repairable? Show me? Handle slabs carefully…..Never seen a repairable damaged slab so not to worry.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,545 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is not a "fix it" as your title states.
    It is a replacement with a fake.

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