@> @1madman said:
To the original poster: please make new “expert” friends/advisors regarding peace dollars. Peace dollars aren’t even my specialty and even stupid me can tell this is clearly a proof.
Proof Peace dollars do not show up like this. Except for this one time.
This is the equivalent of a brand new poster saying they’ve found a top pop 1909-S VDB but they can’t take pictures of the coin. Would you believe that?
I’ll stick with my advisors - they took logical stances on this and I respect why they had their doubts.
Because it’s Christmas time and I’m in the giving mood, one more piece of advice for the OP: never go full guns blazing on the submission form with a raw coin. The first time should not have cost you $400. There were a lot of ways to correctly submit this coin originally, and what you did was basically beg for a $400 body bag.
If nobody has awarded the coveted 'you suck!' award yet -- I'd be proud to do the honors. Great story! Bravo, really well done -- you've earned this good fortune.
If you care to comment on it, I'd be interested to know whether you plan to hold onto this treasure as part of your collection, or if you'll be bringing it to market and cashing in this success. Imagining myself in your shoes I think I'd be very torn.
@mirabela said:
If nobody has awarded the coveted 'you suck!' award yet -- I'd be proud to do the honors. Great story! Bravo, really well done -- you've earned this good fortune.
If you care to comment on it, I'd be interested to know whether you plan to hold onto this treasure as part of your collection, or if you'll be bringing it to market and cashing in this success. Imagining myself in your shoes I think I'd be very torn.
I second the motion for the “you suck” award, as a matter of fact when Alex informed us of the coins confirmed proof status, I told him this was a shoo-in for a “you suck” trophy.
While I wasn’t the person who helped him submit the coin the second time around, I was one of the ones in the “proof” camp. I was convinced by Alex’s thorough research and pdf, outlining all of the die characteristics. I’m ecstatic to see it all come together, a fantastic story indeed.
@alaura22 said:
Congrats Al, great "cherry pick" and might I add, what a DA ebay flipper
Why, because either as the submitter of the coin to NGC or the buyer from someone else, he didn’t consider that NGC might change their mind? What if Alex had sold the coin after it came back as a cleaned business strike the first time - would he have been a “DA”?😉
On occasion, many or most of the sharpest dealers in the country give up on a coin - sometimes after multiple attempts - sell it and later see it in a higher grade holder. It’s part of numismatic life.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@mirabela said:
If nobody has awarded the coveted 'you suck!' award yet -- I'd be proud to do the honors. Great story! Bravo, really well done -- you've earned this good fortune.
If you care to comment on it, I'd be interested to know whether you plan to hold onto this treasure as part of your collection, or if you'll be bringing it to market and cashing in this success. Imagining myself in your shoes I think I'd be very torn.
I second the motion for the “you suck” award, as a matter of fact when Alex informed us of the coins confirmed proof status, I told him this was a shoo-in for a “you suck” trophy.
While I wasn’t the person who helped him submit the coin the second time around, I was one of the ones in the “proof” camp. I was convinced by Alex’s thorough research and pdf, outlining all of the die characteristics. I’m ecstatic to see it all come together, a fantastic story indeed.
Could we all please learn what all the die characteristics and research so that we can learn from this amazing find in the wild.
Thank you
@FlyingAl said:
Alright, we'll call it here. I'll say that @jtlee321 was the closest, as his answers were formatted correctly. Please PM me for your prize!
Man, what a story with this one. I’ve long since loved Satin Proofs, and I knew I could never buy one any time soon. So I set out to find one. I knew I would never find Satin gold, so that left the 1921 Peace. It’s been one of those back burner hunts that I did for fun, thinking it would never pan out.
I was scrolling through Ebay one day, and saw this 1921 listed with abysmal pictures. I looked at it for a second, saw it was a VAM 1-H, and then looked closer. Square rims. Huh. I sent the pics to a group of a few board members, asking if they thought it could be a Proof. I got the response I expected - “Nah, look at this image of a graded Proof they don’t look alike.” Fair response, I do seem crazy at times. These guys are the best of the best, decades long collectors. I should probably listen to them. I put it out of my mind for a few days, and then brought it back up with my good friend @Eldorado9, looking for him to prove me wrong. A few hundred texts later, we decided that I should go for it. The hair detail was incredible, the die markers matched up, and the rims were square. I decided I had to trust my gut on this one.
The coin was listed as UNC Details, and it was almost guaranteed to be exactly that. I think I expected it to show up as an UNC cleaned, so it was a no harm no foul situation if it did. It was the longest shot in the history of long shots. I got up at 5am the morning of the auction, placed my bid a few minutes later as it closed, and won without an opposing bidder.
The wait was agonizing. As I waited, Eldo and I (mostly me pestering Eldo) spent the days doing research on these, finding graded Proofs and doing comparisons. I researched these things down to the most minute details as far as strike characteristics go, even to the point where I found a graded Proof with the same fragment of debris that caused the strike thru on my current coin. We got more and more confident by the day. Everything seemed to line up, but there was that nagging thought - surely a 1921 Satin Proof doesn’t show up on Ebay.
Finally, the postman arrived. A barrage of videos and pics arrived in my text chain with Eldo, along with my statement “10000000% a Proof.” My gut reaction to seeing it in hand was exactly that, and through this entire journey that wouldn’t change. The surfaces are simply unlike any other 1921 I’ve ever seen, or any coin at all. There are some hairlines, but no marks to speak of except a minor strike thru in the left obverse.
Eldo immediately made plans to drop by that weekend to see it in hand - and when he came down I passed him the coin and he looked at it for about a minute without saying a word. I personally think he was looking for a reason to call it MS, but he didn’t find one because he looked up and told me “I think it’s a PR65.” We spent a few hours looking at the other Proofs on Heritage, the PCGS coin, everything we could find. We couldn’t find a reason why it wasn’t a Proof. At this point, no one but him and I knew I even bought the coin - the original group of advisors thought I had passed on the coin.
So I sent it to NGC. Two weeks pass, and we get the results - UNC Details, Cleaned. ARRRGGGH! I was frustrated. I was so certain that I had this one right - and it was looking like it really was UNC Cleaned all along. There’s $400 in grading fees down the drain.
A part of me kept me looking into it - I revisited my research. Again, I confirmed to myself it really was what I thought it was - a Proof. I reached out to my original group of advisors, this time armed with die markers, strike characteristics, and the like. I explained all of the story that had gone before, as they didn’t know I had bought the coin. I had it all, and I was ready to prove it. Prove it I did - for two people of the five. I reached out to two more trusted experts, and both of them told me they felt like it was an MS based on the pics. One is particularly tough on Peace dollars, and the other was hesitant based on an aversion to grading from pics (which is a perfectly reasonable stance that I respect and agree with). Personally, I would have been just as hesitant if presented with the same question - “So… do you think this is an R6 Proof that I found on Ebay?”
Those who know me know I don’t give up on my opinions easily, especially when I feel that my reasoning is sound and I feel I’m correct. This was one of those cases.
Luckily, one of those two people I originally convinced is particularly well connected, and he offered to submit the coin for me. When he got it in hand, he had the same gut reaction as me and Eldo - it’s a Proof. He did have a special vantage point, but he can chime in on that if he wishes. He submitted it for me, and then two weeks later I got a message in my inbox - “Congratulations! I’ll let you tell the group” along with a picture of this coin in a PR62 Satin slab. The ecstatic reactions from the group of collectors made it all worth it.
So here we are, through one of the wildest journeys ever. This is one of the wildest stories as far as coins go that I’ve heard, but here we are. We went from UNC Details to a pop 24 coin in one of the most popular series in American numismatics - and I got to fulfill a dream. I know for certain now that over 1/10 of the population of Satin Proof Peace dollars have been cherry picked.
I suppose it all goes to show - buy the coin, not the slab! I’ve worked for years to get to a point where I trust my gut over almost everything in numismatics, and now it really is beginning to pay off in spades. If I was ever asked what the most important thing in coins is - it’s to trust yourself, not a grading service or the like. Those are good confirmation, but you have to know when they get it wrong. Learn how to grade, learn how to see what makes a coin special.
Do you have any idea of who the original EBay owner was and how they came into possession of such a valuable coin. Coin company, collector, estate? Interesting and amazing for it to be listed on EBay
What a story this is the coin I’ve always wanted … the 21 is my all time favorite and all I’ve ever wanted was a proof (I’d settle for a 22 high relief proof as well) … I’m so happy for you - this story just made my day
Great write up @FlyingAl and I was thrilled to ride along on the ups and downs. One of the best adventures of my numismatic career....by far. So happy for you!
I don’t know the cost of the raw coin on eBay, but it looks like the current value is in the neighborhood of $25k. As such, this could potentially be the “You Suck Award of the 21st Century”!
Congratulations!
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Congrats on a fabulous cherry pick! Really neat story. I've enjoyed posts of your learning about Walker proofs and now this discovery. Study really pays off in numismatics.
Congratulations on your new Peace dollar and the story behind your acquisition. Kudos and propos to you for devoting time and effort to position yourself for success.
I would be thrilled to view this coin in hand.
With respect to the EBay auction and your winning bid, were there any other bidders?; and did you have to "pay up" for the coin?
If you paid modest money for this coin I nominate you for the coveted "You Suck!!!!" award.
@gumby1234 said: @FlyingAl@jtlee321 said sandblasted finish which it is not. Its your contest, but I think I was the closest.
I think the two of you tied.
You get the nod for "satin" proof over his "sandblast" Proof. But he gets the nod for "Unc. details cleaned" over your "details cleaned".
If I were @FlyingAl, I'd give half of the prize (coin) to each of you.
.
I was pretty close, if you merge the two grades together
@SanctionII said:
Congratulations on your new Peace dollar and the story behind your acquisition. Kudos and propos to you for devoting time and effort to position yourself for success.
I would be thrilled to view this coin in hand.
With respect to the EBay auction and your winning bid, were there any other bidders?; and did you have to "pay up" for the coin?
If you paid modest money for this coin I nominate you for the coveted "You Suck!!!!" award.
I see in his description there were no other bidders. He got it for the opening bid. What that was, only he can tell.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Very exciting coin story. I am very happy for you. Good eye, intelligent mind, dangerous with coins!
What I find so interesting about this coin besides the owners expert eye is how the heck does a coin like this end up out in the wild to be cherry picked. At some point someone must have known what they had. It's not like it was made for circulation. I'm stunned.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
@Morgan13 said:
Very exciting coin story. I am very happy for you. Good eye, intelligent mind, dangerous with coins!
What I find so interesting about this coin besides the owners expert eye is how the heck does a coin like this end up out in the wild to be cherry picked. At some point someone must have known what they had. It's not like it was made for circulation. I'm stunned.
Maybe it was “heirs”? All the time we read on these forums how collectors will take certain “actions” later down the road when they’re ready to sell. I point out that maybe it’ll be their heirs that end up selling the coins, and lo and behold, they don’t have (or can’t find) proper instructions. So they go down to the corner Gold & Silver store and sell it for a bit less than melt!
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Makes me wonder about the "who submits a coin" tag line. Regular Joe submits a coin...details result. Someone of known status submits the same coin...straight grade.
oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's
@FlyingAl Congrats to you and i really appreciate your passion for the hobby and persistence.
Of course this reminded me of my saga with the 1910 PF62 Indian from last year.
I just finished re-reading the entire post and relived the same roller coaster of emotions and frustrations that you experienced. Interesting that the coins finished with basically the same grade and the post concluded on nearly the same day, and basically have the same value!
Also you gave me my first and only “You Suck” award so,
Right back at ya!
This shows how education is the key to numismatics.
Congrats @FlyingAl It's great to see a YN make a pick like this and follow through to make it happen.
A "you suck" award for sure!
Makes me wonder about the "who submits a coin" tag line. Regular Joe submits a coin...details result. Someone of known status submits the same coin...straight grade.
There are definitely what I like to call "grading politics." I know for a fact that graders are influenced by outside sources, even to include the submitter. This goes for all companies.
Of course, a coin like this is not something NGC will be willing to call PF without a trusted submitter. I doubt that the coin saw the correct graders the first time around.
@Morgan13 said:
Very exciting coin story. I am very happy for you. Good eye, intelligent mind, dangerous with coins!
What I find so interesting about this coin besides the owners expert eye is how the heck does a coin like this end up out in the wild to be cherry picked. At some point someone must have known what they had. It's not like it was made for circulation. I'm stunned.
Satin Proof Peace dollars were not "discovered" until around the 1960s if I remember correctly - as they were never issued to collectors but were used internally in the mint as approval trial strikes. The director bought a few, and they found their way out to collectors from there.
@Morgan13 said:
Very exciting coin story. I am very happy for you. Good eye, intelligent mind, dangerous with coins!
What I find so interesting about this coin besides the owners expert eye is how the heck does a coin like this end up out in the wild to be cherry picked. At some point someone must have known what they had. It's not like it was made for circulation. I'm stunned.
Maybe it was “heirs”? All the time we read on these forums how collectors will take certain “actions” later down the road when they’re ready to sell. I point out that maybe it’ll be their heirs that end up selling the coins, and lo and behold, they don’t have (or can’t find) proper instructions. So they go down to the corner Gold & Silver store and sell it for a bit less than melt!
Steve
Steve
I think you nailed it. I'm happy for the OP.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
Collectors say they'll submit their coins to CAC to maximize value, but not until they're ready to sell. Well, while I believe CAC stickering will be around for awhile, who knows for how long? And as noted above, death won't necessarily wait for this, or for submitting for Regrades or Reconsideration to maximize value. I suspect the actual reason for "waiting" to submit to CAC to maximize value is something other than procrastination, but I'll keep my mouth shut as to not detract any more from this absolutely WONDERFUL thread!
Merry Christmas to all.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Makes me wonder about the "who submits a coin" tag line. Regular Joe submits a coin...details result. Someone of known status submits the same coin...straight grade.
Of course, a coin like this is not something NGC will be willing to call PF without a trusted submitter.
Respectfully, that’s not an accurate statement at all. The opposite happens all the time.
Sure looks like a proof to me, but some of these are tricky, as everyone has noted.
I’m wondering if the OP agrees with the 62 part of the grade. Are there strong reasons it shouldn’t be in a higher numerical grade holder?
Not speaking for the OP here, but if you look at the excellent video posted it appears there is a non-trivial amount of hairlines, probably from a wipe or two. This would explain the previous Unc details cleaned grade. 62 seems right from where I am sitting.
Here is a capture from the video.
Sure looks like a proof to me, but some of these are tricky, as everyone has noted.
I’m wondering if the OP agrees with the 62 part of the grade. Are there strong reasons it shouldn’t be in a higher numerical grade holder?
Not speaking for the OP here, but if you look at the excellent video posted it appears there is a non-trivial amount of hairlines, probably from a wipe or two. This would explain the previous Unc details cleaned grade. 62 seems right from where I am sitting.
Here is a capture from the video.
Sure looks like a proof to me, but some of these are tricky, as everyone has noted.
I’m wondering if the OP agrees with the 62 part of the grade. Are there strong reasons it shouldn’t be in a higher numerical grade holder?
Not speaking for the OP here, but if you look at the excellent video posted it appears there is a non-trivial amount of hairlines, probably from a wipe or two. This would explain the previous Unc details cleaned grade. 62 seems right from where I am sitting.
Here is a capture from the video.
The coin is definitely wiped as well. The UNC Details and PR62 grades are not inconsistent with one another. Proofs are graded differently from business strikes, the majority of their grade comes down to hairlines as they do not generally suffer from the planchet issues and the contact marks from handling and circulation that business strikes frequently feature. It takes more significant cleaning for a Proof to be given a details grade than a business strike, and a PR61 or PR62 generally implies fairly heavy hairlines.
The lines captured in the video still above, moving in the southeast direction over the portrait and left field, are hairlines, not die lines. Die lines do not shine like that or have that off-white color, and the lines clearly go over the motto.
Whoa that is an awesome score!! Your determination and research payed off!! Congrats!!
Too bad though it took someone "connected" to get it in the correct holder. But sometime more time and attention is needed in viewing a coin and the right person has to see it. Guess that how it goes with grading companies.
Sure looks like a proof to me, but some of these are tricky, as everyone has noted.
I’m wondering if the OP agrees with the 62 part of the grade. Are there strong reasons it shouldn’t be in a higher numerical grade holder?
Not speaking for the OP here, but if you look at the excellent video posted it appears there is a non-trivial amount of hairlines, probably from a wipe or two. This would explain the previous Unc details cleaned grade. 62 seems right from where I am sitting.
Here is a capture from the video.
The coin is definitely wiped as well. The UNC Details and PR62 grades are not inconsistent with one another. Proofs are graded differently from business strikes, the majority of their grade comes down to hairlines as they do not generally suffer from the planchet issues and the contact marks from handling and circulation that business strikes frequently feature. It takes more significant cleaning for a Proof to be given a details grade than a business strike, and a PR61 or PR62 generally implies fairly heavy hairlines.
The UNC details and PR62 grades most certainly are inconsistent, unless you think the UNC and Proof designations are interchangeable.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
Congrats Al!!! Is this a six figure (or high five figure) coin?
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Proof Peace dollars do not show up like this. Except for this one time.
This is the equivalent of a brand new poster saying they’ve found a top pop 1909-S VDB but they can’t take pictures of the coin. Would you believe that?
I’ll stick with my advisors - they took logical stances on this and I respect why they had their doubts.
Coin Photographer.
Now that was an absolute thrilla
Congrats
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Woo Hoo!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Amazing discovery and a risky cherry pick working out well!
Fantastic turn of events and great storytelling.
Your great knowledge, confidence and the great community of the forum at its best here! Thank you for sharing! ;-)
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Because it’s Christmas time and I’m in the giving mood, one more piece of advice for the OP: never go full guns blazing on the submission form with a raw coin. The first time should not have cost you $400. There were a lot of ways to correctly submit this coin originally, and what you did was basically beg for a $400 body bag.
If nobody has awarded the coveted 'you suck!' award yet -- I'd be proud to do the honors. Great story! Bravo, really well done -- you've earned this good fortune.
If you care to comment on it, I'd be interested to know whether you plan to hold onto this treasure as part of your collection, or if you'll be bringing it to market and cashing in this success. Imagining myself in your shoes I think I'd be very torn.
Congrats Al, great "cherry pick" and might I add, what a DA ebay flipper
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
It's a wonderful Christmas story. Congratulations on picking the specimen...and for the well-written story.
Wow! A dream find for sure, once in a lifetime. Big congrats! Sometimes you just have that gut feeling. Incredible!
Collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
That was one of the wildest stories I've read-- huge congratulations!
I second the motion for the “you suck” award, as a matter of fact when Alex informed us of the coins confirmed proof status, I told him this was a shoo-in for a “you suck” trophy.
While I wasn’t the person who helped him submit the coin the second time around, I was one of the ones in the “proof” camp. I was convinced by Alex’s thorough research and pdf, outlining all of the die characteristics. I’m ecstatic to see it all come together, a fantastic story indeed.
Founder- Peak Rarities
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Why, because either as the submitter of the coin to NGC or the buyer from someone else, he didn’t consider that NGC might change their mind? What if Alex had sold the coin after it came back as a cleaned business strike the first time - would he have been a “DA”?😉
On occasion, many or most of the sharpest dealers in the country give up on a coin - sometimes after multiple attempts - sell it and later see it in a higher grade holder. It’s part of numismatic life.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Could we all please learn what all the die characteristics and research so that we can learn from this amazing find in the wild.
Thank you
Do you have any idea of who the original EBay owner was and how they came into possession of such a valuable coin. Coin company, collector, estate? Interesting and amazing for it to be listed on EBay
What a story this is the coin I’ve always wanted … the 21 is my all time favorite and all I’ve ever wanted was a proof (I’d settle for a 22 high relief proof as well) … I’m so happy for you - this story just made my day
Great write up @FlyingAl and I was thrilled to ride along on the ups and downs. One of the best adventures of my numismatic career....by far. So happy for you!
Fantastic story- just goes to show that there are still great coins out there yet to be discovered! Congratulations on a great score!
Alex,
Congrats on a terrific score and a great story to go with your find. Even at a young age, you are "the man" when it comes to numismatics.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
What an incredible story. Congrats on spotting a diamond in the rough and fulfilling a dream. Can you find one for me too
?
I don’t know the cost of the raw coin on eBay, but it looks like the current value is in the neighborhood of $25k. As such, this could potentially be the “You Suck Award of the 21st Century”!
Congratulations!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Congrats on a fabulous cherry pick! Really neat story. I've enjoyed posts of your learning about Walker proofs and now this discovery. Study really pays off in numismatics.
Wow very nice result! I assume one of the experts you consulted was RWB?
Collector, occasional seller
He was, but I don't think he would call a 1921 Peace a Proof, regardless of what it looked like.
Coin Photographer.
Congratulations on your new Peace dollar and the story behind your acquisition. Kudos and propos to you for devoting time and effort to position yourself for success.
I would be thrilled to view this coin in hand.
With respect to the EBay auction and your winning bid, were there any other bidders?; and did you have to "pay up" for the coin?
If you paid modest money for this coin I nominate you for the coveted "You Suck!!!!" award.
.
I was pretty close, if you merge the two grades together
.
I see in his description there were no other bidders. He got it for the opening bid. What that was, only he can tell.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Very exciting coin story. I am very happy for you. Good eye, intelligent mind, dangerous with coins!
What I find so interesting about this coin besides the owners expert eye is how the heck does a coin like this end up out in the wild to be cherry picked. At some point someone must have known what they had. It's not like it was made for circulation. I'm stunned.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
Maybe it was “heirs”? All the time we read on these forums how collectors will take certain “actions” later down the road when they’re ready to sell. I point out that maybe it’ll be their heirs that end up selling the coins, and lo and behold, they don’t have (or can’t find) proper instructions. So they go down to the corner Gold & Silver store and sell it for a bit less than melt!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
She sure is a beauty!
Nice, in depth story.
Makes me wonder about the "who submits a coin" tag line. Regular Joe submits a coin...details result. Someone of known status submits the same coin...straight grade.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
@FlyingAl Congrats to you and i really appreciate your passion for the hobby and persistence.
Of course this reminded me of my saga with the 1910 PF62 Indian from last year.
I just finished re-reading the entire post and relived the same roller coaster of emotions and frustrations that you experienced. Interesting that the coins finished with basically the same grade and the post concluded on nearly the same day, and basically have the same value!
Also you gave me my first and only “You Suck” award so,
Right back at ya!
Outstanding! Great story and a killer pick!
This shows how education is the key to numismatics.
Congrats @FlyingAl It's great to see a YN make a pick like this and follow through to make it happen.
A "you suck" award for sure!
@FlyingAl -- truly only one thing to be said on this amazing story of knowledge, determination, and perseverance...
There are definitely what I like to call "grading politics." I know for a fact that graders are influenced by outside sources, even to include the submitter. This goes for all companies.
Of course, a coin like this is not something NGC will be willing to call PF without a trusted submitter. I doubt that the coin saw the correct graders the first time around.
Coin Photographer.
Satin Proof Peace dollars were not "discovered" until around the 1960s if I remember correctly - as they were never issued to collectors but were used internally in the mint as approval trial strikes. The director bought a few, and they found their way out to collectors from there.
Coin Photographer.
Steve
I think you nailed it. I'm happy for the OP.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
Collectors say they'll submit their coins to CAC to maximize value, but not until they're ready to sell. Well, while I believe CAC stickering will be around for awhile, who knows for how long? And as noted above, death won't necessarily wait for this, or for submitting for Regrades or Reconsideration to maximize value. I suspect the actual reason for "waiting" to submit to CAC to maximize value is something other than procrastination, but I'll keep my mouth shut as to not detract any more from this absolutely WONDERFUL thread!
Merry Christmas to all.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Respectfully, that’s not an accurate statement at all. The opposite happens all the time.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
For example: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1053376/reddit-user-claims-to-find-1922-high-relief-peace/p1
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
Great stories like this from the OP are why I spend so much time on this forum and why I keep coming back.
What a ride.
Tim
Thank you, Alex! My favorite GTG ever!
Great story and gorgeous coin.
Sure looks like a proof to me, but some of these are tricky, as everyone has noted.
I’m wondering if the OP agrees with the 62 part of the grade. Are there strong reasons it shouldn’t be in a higher numerical grade holder?
Not speaking for the OP here, but if you look at the excellent video posted it appears there is a non-trivial amount of hairlines, probably from a wipe or two. This would explain the previous Unc details cleaned grade. 62 seems right from where I am sitting.
Here is a capture from the video.
Collector, occasional seller
The majority of those are die polishing lines- these coins are literally covered with them, which is one of the characteristic features
http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com/wiki/1921-P_Peace_VAM-1H
The coin is definitely wiped as well. The UNC Details and PR62 grades are not inconsistent with one another. Proofs are graded differently from business strikes, the majority of their grade comes down to hairlines as they do not generally suffer from the planchet issues and the contact marks from handling and circulation that business strikes frequently feature. It takes more significant cleaning for a Proof to be given a details grade than a business strike, and a PR61 or PR62 generally implies fairly heavy hairlines.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
The lines captured in the video still above, moving in the southeast direction over the portrait and left field, are hairlines, not die lines. Die lines do not shine like that or have that off-white color, and the lines clearly go over the motto.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
Whoa that is an awesome score!! Your determination and research payed off!! Congrats!!
Too bad though it took someone "connected" to get it in the correct holder. But sometime more time and attention is needed in viewing a coin and the right person has to see it. Guess that how it goes with grading companies.
The UNC details and PR62 grades most certainly are inconsistent, unless you think the UNC and Proof designations are interchangeable.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@ChrisH
You are correct - those are hairlines. Given, that is the only patch of hairlines on the coin and I'd attest the reverse is a solid 67.
I'll have a chance to compare it to a PF65 Satin at FUN, so I'll be able to get an opinion of it compared to a coin at that grade level.
Coin Photographer.