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GTG - 1921 Peace Dollar (PR62 Satin) - Backstory and Grade In Comments

FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited December 21, 2023 4:42PM in U.S. Coin Forum

There are two correct answers on this one. It will be extremely difficult. Good luck!

First person to guess both grades correctly provided they already do not know those grades will win an UNC 1967 Kennedy half. If you explain your answer to my satisfaction, you will win a second UNC 1967.

Here you go!

«13

Comments

  • Eldorado9Eldorado9 Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cleaned Unc. ?

  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2023 4:16AM

    Matte proof
    SP67
    PR66
    Edited to add the correct format. Added second answer.
    I did not change anything else.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,495 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Vam1F struck from proof dies
    MS-64

  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,142 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Matte proof
    MS65

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • OwnerofawheatiehordeOwnerofawheatiehorde Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2023 6:17PM

    MS-64+ star

    Type collector, mainly into Seated. Young Numismatist. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON

  • FrazFraz Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    E. All of the above

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ownerofawheatiehorde said:
    Is there a limit to the number of guesses? ;)

    No, but if I see you abusing that you will be removed from the running.

    Additionally, a correct guess must be formatted in the format that it would appear on a grading label. For example, “SP70”.

  • FrazFraz Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @alaura22 said:
    Vam1F struck from proof dies
    MS-64

    This looks like a correct answer for a difficult problem.
    Do we get one each?

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,165 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Proof 64
    MS 64

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How can there be two correct answers when there’s just one set of images?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    How can there be two correct answers when there’s just one set of images?

    The same coin was graded twice, with a different grade each time.

    The two grades are about as far apart as you can get.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:

    @MFeld said:
    How can there be two correct answers when there’s just one set of images?

    The same coin was graded twice, with a different grade each time.

    The two grades are about as far apart as you can get.

    Thanks.Then I’ll guess —- and —-😉

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PF65
    Unc Details cleaned

  • AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2023 7:32PM

    AU50
    Ms63

  • AndyKAndyK Posts: 58 ✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2023 7:56PM

    Somehow I feel like this is a proof rather than the VAM 1F. I got to cheat a little by looking at a MS-63 VAM 1F that I own and it has some of the markers but not all. I don't see the little "hook" off the V in TRVST as I would expect on the 1F nor the double lines off the A in "Dollar". It does have the die polishing lines. Very clean coin except that small scratch off the nose on the obverse. Going out on a limb here with PF-63. If the better grade is PF-xx than I'd guess it was a PF details grade before.

  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 4,904 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PF64
    PF60 Details

  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,340 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU 50
    &
    DETAILS CLEANED

    GrandAm :)
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,830 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:

    @MFeld said:
    How can there be two correct answers when there’s just one set of images?

    The same coin was graded twice, with a different grade each time.

    The two grades are about as far apart as you can get.

    That does not speak well of the TPG and does not much for confidence in same. Graded both times by the same TPG?

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2023 9:11PM

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:

    @FlyingAl said:

    @MFeld said:
    How can there be two correct answers when there’s just one set of images?

    The same coin was graded twice, with a different grade each time.

    The two grades are about as far apart as you can get.

    That does not speak well of the TPG and does not much for confidence in same. Graded both times by the same TPG?

    NGC both times. That alone is a clue to the second answer...

  • HoledandCreativeHoledandCreative Posts: 2,725 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Matte 58

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,495 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Al
    Don't keep us waiting tooooo long :)

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @alaura22 said:
    Al
    Don't keep us waiting tooooo long :)

    Oh, I won't. I reveal tomorrow night if no one has guessed by then. However, since no one has really guessed right, I'll give a few hints.

    1) It was both detailed and straight graded.
    2) The first grade has been posted in a picture in one of my discussions.

  • mattnissmattniss Posts: 548 ✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2023 10:15PM

    Ok, here's my guess... this was originally graded as an UNC Details VAM 1H Polishing Lines. It later on was resubmitted and received the adjustment to a PR63 Satin Proof. Since PCGS doesn't acknowledge the SP, it had to be resubmitted through NGC a second time.

  • Peace_dollar88Peace_dollar88 Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unc details
    Later graded as pr63 matte proof

    Even though die polish lines are consistent with a satin proof.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,905 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2023 1:12AM

    It is a proof strike. But the surface texture doesn't quite match a satin proof or a matte proof.
    So I think it is a satin proof with some mild environmental effects and/or light cleaning (mostly on the obverse).

    I will guess PR (Genuine) UNC details (PCGS) and then Proof Details Cleaned (NGC).

    But still a nice coin.
    If I were to assign a numerical grade for valuation purposes, I might net it at PR 63.

  • mirabelamirabela Posts: 4,947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PR58

    mirabela
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,681 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2023 4:10AM

    Nice image and a wonderful coin. As for the grade, I predict that I will have different thoughts than NGC. It does have the look as being struck from proof dies- the real problem/question is whether the surfaces have been impaired beyond the matte appearance that the coin has. At first blush, I can see a details grade. Perhaps not just because it may have sustained a lite wipe, but because of what looks to be a distracting field scratch in the field next to the portrait nose. However, in this instance I don't think that is the better opinion. I agree with a straight grade but I am struggling with what that straight grade should be without seeing it in hand to measure- at least to my satisfaction- the possible surface impairment.

    edited to add- I had a 1921 Peace graded by our host within the past year- we had differing opinions which adds to the reluctance to offer a specific grade.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    SP65.

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Details cleaned

    And now PF62 Satin

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • MS 64 and AU58

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One poster is very close now, but one of their answers doesn't match with the answer format requirement. I will let the contest continue to run, and if no one gets closer that poster would win the 1967 half.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,490 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU Details

    bob :)
    vegas, baby!

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will take another shot.
    Details sandblasted
    Matte PR63

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars

  • FrankHFrankH Posts: 761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Will the prize generate a 1099? >:)

  • @FlyingAl said:
    One poster is very close now, but one of their answers doesn't match with the answer format requirement. I will let the contest continue to run, and if no one gets closer that poster would win the 1967 half.

    I do not have the skill yet to grade this, and it would be disingenuous of me to cobble an answer from the previous guesses in an attempt to hit the mark. I just wanted to say that this has been one of the best GTG threads from my perspective as several posters @AndyK , @coinkat , among others, have backed their guesses with great explanations. I appreciate that.

  • FrazFraz Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2023 1:44PM

    Disregard my previous jests.

    Proof details cleaned
    PFMA 66

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,495 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2023 12:27PM

    I'll try this again
    Vam1F struck from proof dies MS Details grade
    To
    PR-64 Satin Finish

  • I could see something like PF-64 in the current NGC holder, and MS-63 in a PCGS holder with their disclaimer of something like "MS of Satin PF Dies".

    James at EarlyUS.com

    On the web: http://www.earlyus.com
  • SP64
    Sandblasted with Antique Finish

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭✭✭

    M Proof
    Scratched

  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,663 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PR58
    Unc details cleaned

    Many happy BST transactions
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭✭✭

    UNC Details Cleaned
    PF62 Sandblasted Finish

    The surfaces do not have the light luster that the Satin Proof would, plus it's much more granular looking, which is what a sandblasted finish would show.

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl @jtlee321 said sandblasted finish which it is not. Its your contest, but I think I was the closest.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    @FlyingAl @jtlee321 said sandblasted finish which it is not. Its your contest, but I think I was the closest.

    I think the two of you tied.
    You get the nod for "satin" proof over his "sandblast" Proof. But he gets the nod for "Unc. details cleaned" over your "details cleaned".
    If I were @FlyingAl, I'd give half of the prize (coin) to each of you. ;)

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To the original poster: please make new “expert” friends/advisors regarding peace dollars. Peace dollars aren’t even my specialty and even stupid me can tell this is clearly a proof.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1madman said:
    To the original poster: please make new “expert” friends/advisors regarding peace dollars. Peace dollars aren’t even my specialty and even stupid me can tell this is clearly a proof.

    Gosh, I sure hope he doesn't ditch me as a fiend/advisor. :'( Based on the pictures I viewed weeks ago, I wasn't at all convinced that the coin was a Proof. And I've seen a good number of Satin and Matte examples in-hand over the years. That said, the pictures posted in this thread are much more convincing.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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