GTG - 1921 Peace Dollar (PR62 Satin)

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FlyingAl
FlyingAl Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 4, 2025 7:46PM in U.S. Coin Forum

There are two correct answers on this one. It will be extremely difficult. Good luck!

First person to guess both grades correctly provided they already do not know those grades will win an UNC 1967 Kennedy half. If you explain your answer to my satisfaction, you will win a second UNC 1967.

Here you go!

«13

Comments

  • Eldorado9
    Eldorado9 Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Cleaned Unc. ?

  • Morgan13
    Morgan13 Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2023 5:16AM
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    Matte proof
    SP67
    PR66
    Edited to add the correct format. Added second answer.
    I did not change anything else.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
    Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP BruceS bigjpst
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  • alaura22
    alaura22 Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Vam1F struck from proof dies
    MS-64

  • privatecoin
    privatecoin Posts: 3,853 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Matte proof
    MS65

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • may
    may Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2023 7:17PM
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    MS-64+ star

  • Fraz
    Fraz Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    E. All of the above

  • FlyingAl
    FlyingAl Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Ownerofawheatiehorde said:
    Is there a limit to the number of guesses? ;)

    No, but if I see you abusing that you will be removed from the running.

    Additionally, a correct guess must be formatted in the format that it would appear on a grading label. For example, “SP70”.

  • Fraz
    Fraz Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @alaura22 said:
    Vam1F struck from proof dies
    MS-64

    This looks like a correct answer for a difficult problem.
    Do we get one each?

  • Smudge
    Smudge Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Proof 64
    MS 64

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,145 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    How can there be two correct answers when there’s just one set of images?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • FlyingAl
    FlyingAl Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:
    How can there be two correct answers when there’s just one set of images?

    The same coin was graded twice, with a different grade each time.

    The two grades are about as far apart as you can get.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,145 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @FlyingAl said:

    @MFeld said:
    How can there be two correct answers when there’s just one set of images?

    The same coin was graded twice, with a different grade each time.

    The two grades are about as far apart as you can get.

    Thanks.Then I’ll guess —- and —-😉

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • 1madman
    1madman Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    PF65
    Unc Details cleaned

  • AlanSki
    AlanSki Posts: 1,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2023 8:32PM
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    AU50
    Ms63

  • AndyK
    AndyK Posts: 72 ✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2023 8:56PM
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    Somehow I feel like this is a proof rather than the VAM 1F. I got to cheat a little by looking at a MS-63 VAM 1F that I own and it has some of the markers but not all. I don't see the little "hook" off the V in TRVST as I would expect on the 1F nor the double lines off the A in "Dollar". It does have the die polishing lines. Very clean coin except that small scratch off the nose on the obverse. Going out on a limb here with PF-63. If the better grade is PF-xx than I'd guess it was a PF details grade before.

  • erwindoc
    erwindoc Posts: 5,447 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    PF64
    PF60 Details

  • GRANDAM
    GRANDAM Posts: 8,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    AU 50
    &
    DETAILS CLEANED

    GrandAm :)
  • BLUEJAYWAY
    BLUEJAYWAY Posts: 11,798 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @FlyingAl said:

    @MFeld said:
    How can there be two correct answers when there’s just one set of images?

    The same coin was graded twice, with a different grade each time.

    The two grades are about as far apart as you can get.

    That does not speak well of the TPG and does not much for confidence in same. Graded both times by the same TPG?

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • FlyingAl
    FlyingAl Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2023 10:11PM
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    @BLUEJAYWAY said:

    @FlyingAl said:

    @MFeld said:
    How can there be two correct answers when there’s just one set of images?

    The same coin was graded twice, with a different grade each time.

    The two grades are about as far apart as you can get.

    That does not speak well of the TPG and does not much for confidence in same. Graded both times by the same TPG?

    NGC both times. That alone is a clue to the second answer...

  • HoledandCreative
    HoledandCreative Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Matte 58

  • alaura22
    alaura22 Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Al
    Don't keep us waiting tooooo long :)

  • FlyingAl
    FlyingAl Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @alaura22 said:
    Al
    Don't keep us waiting tooooo long :)

    Oh, I won't. I reveal tomorrow night if no one has guessed by then. However, since no one has really guessed right, I'll give a few hints.

    1) It was both detailed and straight graded.
    2) The first grade has been posted in a picture in one of my discussions.

  • mattniss
    mattniss Posts: 863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2023 11:15PM
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    Ok, here's my guess... this was originally graded as an UNC Details VAM 1H Polishing Lines. It later on was resubmitted and received the adjustment to a PR63 Satin Proof. Since PCGS doesn't acknowledge the SP, it had to be resubmitted through NGC a second time.

  • Peace_dollar88
    Peace_dollar88 Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Unc details
    Later graded as pr63 matte proof

    Even though die polish lines are consistent with a satin proof.

  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2023 2:12AM
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    It is a proof strike. But the surface texture doesn't quite match a satin proof or a matte proof.
    So I think it is a satin proof with some mild environmental effects and/or light cleaning (mostly on the obverse).

    I will guess PR (Genuine) UNC details (PCGS) and then Proof Details Cleaned (NGC).

    But still a nice coin.
    If I were to assign a numerical grade for valuation purposes, I might net it at PR 63.

  • mirabela
    mirabela Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    PR58

    mirabela
  • coinkat
    coinkat Posts: 24,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2023 5:10AM
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    Nice image and a wonderful coin. As for the grade, I predict that I will have different thoughts than NGC. It does have the look as being struck from proof dies- the real problem/question is whether the surfaces have been impaired beyond the matte appearance that the coin has. At first blush, I can see a details grade. Perhaps not just because it may have sustained a lite wipe, but because of what looks to be a distracting field scratch in the field next to the portrait nose. However, in this instance I don't think that is the better opinion. I agree with a straight grade but I am struggling with what that straight grade should be without seeing it in hand to measure- at least to my satisfaction- the possible surface impairment.

    edited to add- I had a 1921 Peace graded by our host within the past year- we had differing opinions which adds to the reluctance to offer a specific grade.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • logger7
    logger7 Posts: 9,868 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    SP65.

  • gumby1234
    gumby1234 Posts: 5,901 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Details cleaned

    And now PF62 Satin

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • flyguyfl
    flyguyfl Posts: 127 ✭✭✭
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    MS 64 and AU58

  • FlyingAl
    FlyingAl Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    One poster is very close now, but one of their answers doesn't match with the answer format requirement. I will let the contest continue to run, and if no one gets closer that poster would win the 1967 half.

  • AUandAG
    AUandAG Posts: 25,050 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    AU Details

    bob :)
    vegas, baby!

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • Morgan13
    Morgan13 Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I will take another shot.
    Details sandblasted
    Matte PR63

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
    Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP BruceS bigjpst
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  • FrankH
    FrankH Posts: 982 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Will the prize generate a 1099? >:)

  • Extremeengineer
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    @FlyingAl said:
    One poster is very close now, but one of their answers doesn't match with the answer format requirement. I will let the contest continue to run, and if no one gets closer that poster would win the 1967 half.

    I do not have the skill yet to grade this, and it would be disingenuous of me to cobble an answer from the previous guesses in an attempt to hit the mark. I just wanted to say that this has been one of the best GTG threads from my perspective as several posters @AndyK , @coinkat , among others, have backed their guesses with great explanations. I appreciate that.

  • Fraz
    Fraz Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2023 2:44PM
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    Disregard my previous jests.

    Proof details cleaned
    PFMA 66

  • alaura22
    alaura22 Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2023 1:27PM
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    I'll try this again
    Vam1F struck from proof dies MS Details grade
    To
    PR-64 Satin Finish

  • EarlyUS
    EarlyUS Posts: 306 ✭✭✭
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    I could see something like PF-64 in the current NGC holder, and MS-63 in a PCGS holder with their disclaimer of something like "MS of Satin PF Dies".

    James at EarlyUS.com

    On the web: http://www.earlyus.com
  • dhikewhitney
    dhikewhitney Posts: 532 ✭✭✭✭
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    SP64
    Sandblasted with Antique Finish

  • johnny010
    johnny010 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    M Proof
    Scratched

  • cheezhed
    cheezhed Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    PR58
    Unc details cleaned

    Many happy BST transactions
  • jtlee321
    jtlee321 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    UNC Details Cleaned
    PF62 Sandblasted Finish

    The surfaces do not have the light luster that the Satin Proof would, plus it's much more granular looking, which is what a sandblasted finish would show.

  • gumby1234
    gumby1234 Posts: 5,901 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @FlyingAl @jtlee321 said sandblasted finish which it is not. Its your contest, but I think I was the closest.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,145 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @gumby1234 said:
    @FlyingAl @jtlee321 said sandblasted finish which it is not. Its your contest, but I think I was the closest.

    I think the two of you tied.
    You get the nod for "satin" proof over his "sandblast" Proof. But he gets the nod for "Unc. details cleaned" over your "details cleaned".
    If I were @FlyingAl, I'd give half of the prize (coin) to each of you. ;)

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • 1madman
    1madman Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    To the original poster: please make new “expert” friends/advisors regarding peace dollars. Peace dollars aren’t even my specialty and even stupid me can tell this is clearly a proof.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,145 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @1madman said:
    To the original poster: please make new “expert” friends/advisors regarding peace dollars. Peace dollars aren’t even my specialty and even stupid me can tell this is clearly a proof.

    Gosh, I sure hope he doesn't ditch me as a fiend/advisor. :'( Based on the pictures I viewed weeks ago, I wasn't at all convinced that the coin was a Proof. And I've seen a good number of Satin and Matte examples in-hand over the years. That said, the pictures posted in this thread are much more convincing.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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