TrueView vs. GreatPhoto: same coin, different image

anablep

I won this common date 1880-S Morgan dollar in MS65 from Great Collections last night. Looking forward to the in-hand comparison to both images. I'm sure it depends on my lighting and how I tilt the coin, but in either case the target toning and frost caught my attention on this one. Has anyone compared their GreatPhoto to the actual coin yet vs. a TrueView? Apologies if there's already a thread on this topic. If so, feel free to comment on the coin or the photos of it. Thanks for reading!

gumby1234

I'm guessing that it looks more like the GC photo in hand.

TomB

I'd imagine brilliant proof coinage or coins with deeply PL surfaces might show the most variance between the two systems. Regardless, your coin appears quite attractive.

The_Dinosaur_Man

I think this is a fun case in point where lighting styles really matter in presenting a coin. Just looking at the coin's reverse, you can see the vividness of the blue edge toning in the TrueView which is lost in the GreatPhoto, but at the same time you can see the degree of flashiness the luster presents.

P0CKETCHANGE

They are both a product of different lighting, and both photos may have even been taken by the same photographer. PCGS as a standard practice takes and stores two photos of each coin, each under different lighting. For ex., here are two TrueViews of the same coin taken during the same submission:

FlyingAl

I'd bet $10 it looks like the GC photos under a single lamp and most angles.

The TVs were taken with axial lighting, and therefore the fields are glared out. This is what you get when you turn a coin fully into the light.

The GC photos were taken with what appears to be a standard 3 light setup in a cross format. This is what you get when you rotate a coin under one lamp.

Are both accurate - probably. Is one more accurate for most scenarios - also probably.

leothelyon

Your coin will look like both photos. One is capturing the light while the other is reflecting a darker field that's in line with the coin's SPL or PL mirrors and than back into the camera lens.
I could make the obverse appear like the reverse and vice-versa. It's just a matter of what you want the mirrored fields to reflect, the light or a dark background. The latter is more difficult to set up as your adding a 3 element to acheive the effect.

Leo

PhilArnold

TrueView is a different product than in-holder photography. I developed TrueView as a sort of view into the coin as-seen by the grader. The images have great clarity, and are unobstructed by plastic which is a great advantage, and I feel like I imparted my knowledge photographing raw coins as best I could to my former team before departing PCGS. So have confidence in requesting TrueViews and Gold Shield service in your submissions

Photographing GreatPhotos is a different beast because we're depicting the coin in-holder in order to give a nice, appealing, and accurate representation for buyers at auction. Ian has been great about allowing me to experiment with these images, and I'm developing new techniques and workflows to produce these images. All in all the response to GreatPhoto has been overwhelmingly positive so far, and I'm having a great time.

Some GreatPhoto images will appear quite similar to TrueViews:

Some will appear necessarily different due to the obstruction of plastic:

Both are correct to a degree.

I'm quite pleased at how lustrous coins are coming out in GreatPhotos with my new setup.

And I can still illuminate fields of the coin only if necessary.

Slab scratches are a problem, and can be mitigated to an extent. However there's a limit to what I can do. Nonetheless I like the shot of that Saint. Nice and velvety.

And I enjoy working within these limitations because I love the challenge.

FlyingAl

@PhilArnold

It appears a lot of those TrueViews had a slight saturation adjustment when compared to the GreatPhoto. I personally prefer the GreatPhoto as it appears like it would be more accurate.

Can you speak to Great Collection's goal for accuracy in their photos, specifically relating to GreatPhotos?

PhilArnold

@FlyingAl said:
@PhilArnold

Can you speak to Great Collection's goal for accuracy in their photos, specifically relating to GreatPhotos?

It all comes down to communication. I work in close quarters with a small team, and I follow Ian's lead and experience when it comes to how we present these photos to our bidders. If Ian has a concern with an image he'll let me know. And I'll talk to Ian or Raeleen about certain shots, whether it be coins, slabs or other objects I'm doing, just to make sure we're doing what's best for our consigners and bidders.

Maywood

I originally was in total agreement with @POCKETCHANGE because it was possible to request different images from Phil while he was with PCGS and he generally accommodated requests nicely. Also, it seems to be a common complaint about TV's looking artificial and manipulated while conveniently forgetting that there's no plastic in the way, just as Phil explained.

My impression of PCGS TrueView services was always positive, the images of my coins/medals were always very, very accurate. Looking back in time to archived threads it's clear that the Great Collections images were problematic from their inception. The principals there resisted change and it's nice to see they are now willing to change. The few images I have seen show a clear improvement.

ProofCollection

The problem with calling it "Great Photo" is that it sounds like the Walmart Brand "Great Value."

I realize that it is an extension of "Great Collections," but I just can't shake connection in my head.

ProofCollection

@PhilArnold said:

Given your relationship with PCGS and your technical knowledge of how to make this happen, would there be any chance of perhaps making it possible to share photos with PCGS registry of PCGS coins? And not just photo sharing. There's something about the Trueviews that allows the PCGS digital album to automatically populate the obverse and reverse images properly so ideally, whatever is provided to PCGS would be formatted or encoded to work seamlessly like a TV.

I think this would be a huge selling point for GC and would also be in PCGS' interest to facilitate as many of us buy pre-gold shield and pre-TV era coins on GC and have no high quality photos linked to the cert numbers.

Hopefully PCGS wouldn't be concerned about any loss of revenue from such a relationship but I guess it's possible.

oih82w8

If I remember correctly, sometimes multiple images were taken and one was chosen for representation. I am not sure if the other images were kept on file.

PhilArnold

@ProofCollection said:

@PhilArnold said:

Given your relationship with PCGS and your technical knowledge of how to make this happen, would there be any chance of perhaps making it possible to share photos with PCGS registry of PCGS coins? And not just photo sharing. There's something about the Trueviews that allows the PCGS digital album to automatically populate the obverse and reverse images properly so ideally, whatever is provided to PCGS would be formatted or encoded to work seamlessly like a TV.

I think this would be a huge selling point for GC and would also be in PCGS' interest to facilitate as many of us buy pre-gold shield and pre-TV era coins on GC and have no high quality photos linked to the cert numbers.

Hopefully PCGS wouldn't be concerned about any loss of revenue from such a relationship but I guess it's possible.

Hi. I was never that involved with how things operated on the Set Registry / Digital Albums, so I couldn't comment. Sorry.

I do have one more comparison, and a display of one of the other things I have to deal with. This time with an NGC image. Perhaps not totally representative of a PhotoVision, but you can see the differences. And the prongs I have to deal with. I effectively played around with AI to remove the prongs, but it wouldn't be proper to utilize that for GreatPhotos.

spacehayduke

Phil,
I think I am seeing a very small extra touch of red in the GC photos?

Best, SH

PeakRarities

This is a HUGE step forward for GC. These advancements are surely going to attract more high-end consignments, Bravo Ian and Phil!

ianrussell

@Maywood writes that I'm against change??

I like to think I'm not against change at all - although I do try to think things through. I have been against some suggestions on here, but I can assure you it was not because of extra work. I guess there are some topics I have been against change. Ie. we've not increased our fees.

And now @ProofCollection is criticizing the name GreatPhoto???????? It's the perfect name (and FWIW, I did not come up with it).

DennisH

@gumby1234 said:
I'm guessing that it looks more like the GC photo in hand.

I agree.

Smudge

Regarding the op, the first thing I look at on a Morgan is the cheek. The Great Photo shows it more effectively.

anablep

@Smudge same here, and I thought this particular year, with its typical strong strike, flashy luster and gem status would provide a low-risk look at how the two images compare to the in-hand coin. And I really like the look of the coin in both images.

@PhilArnold thank you for sharing your methods and the challenges associated with producing images for both PCGS and GC. I'm looking forward to more GreatPhoto images in the near future. Best of luck!

johnny010

These photos are excellent Phil.

GreatPhoto was a needed next step and I’m glad it’s been delivered. 👍🏻

BigAl

Good thread and awesome comparative pics! Both TV and GP photos are artistry. I like the comment regarding how TV pics are representative of what the grader sees, vs. GP how the coin appears for buyers at auction; I think I can see the distinction in the pics. Thanks for posting

Meltdown

What a great read, thanks for the comparison photos and explanations. I'm definitely more interested in consigning with GC now that the photo quality is top notch.

EastonCollection

Ian - you made a huge step in securing a great photographer by getting Phil services. This really help GC position in the auction space. Your investment into GC shows you are very serious about your business success and yours and the coin world appreciates your dedication. Phil - your pictures are terrific and enjoy seeing the pictures and comparing them to the actual coin. Great work.

Zoins

@Maywood said:
it seems to be a common complaint about TV's looking artificial and manipulated while conveniently forgetting that there's no plastic in the way, just as Phil explained.

This is a great point @Maywood and a great reminder from @PhilArnold!

I wonder how many of us have seen our TrueViewed coins without the plastic?

I have seen a few that I've submitted but it is still a small amount compared to the total I have with TrueViews.

Bigbuck1975

Fantastic images Phil and GREAT PHOTOS!!!

FlyingAl

As more and more GreatPhotos show up, I must admit I'm throughly impressed. Fantastic job @PhilArnold!

Are you the one taking the images or have you trained a team?

littlebear

The new images are absolutely fantastic! It is the reason I will be using Great Collections to sell some material in the future! Most impressive!!

logger7

I prefer the "Great Photo" images. Maybe Phil is more free to present his excellence at GC.

PhilArnold

@FlyingAl said:
As more and more GreatPhotos show up, I must admit I'm throughly impressed. Fantastic job @PhilArnold!

Are you the one taking the images or have you trained a team?

Only I am doing the GreatPhoto closeups now.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Glad you like GreatPhoto, and Merry Christmas!

EDIT: I was browsing GC just now and this Lincoln cent in the highlights has a nice GreatPhoto, and shows a nice example of how I’m handling smaller coins.

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1502315/1910-S-Lincoln-Cent-PCGS-MS-67-RD-CAC-Green-Toned

hfjacinto

Great photos but to me you have saturation turned up pretty high. Can I ask what camera and what settings are you using?

I’m assuming shooting raw with ISO at 100 probably f8 and some type of macro lens (like 100 mm f2.8)

And then probably led lights to enhance the color. In post processing are you increasing the contrast? Saturation?

The reason I ask is that I can do photos like this but to me that isn’t the real color, it takes toning and saturates it , most coins have a subdued toning.

Goldbully

Here's an 1881 $10 Liberty Gold coin example.

---

---

ianrussell

@hfjacinto - we probably want to avoid disclosing proprietary information about the imaging process/equipment, but we do not enhance colors or have post-processing editing (except for image cropping and naming).

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Several hundred more GreatPhotos uploaded yesterday - and another 400-500 will upload in the next 48 hours.

Merry Christmas!!

• Ian

spacehayduke

@hfjacinto said:

Great photos but to me you have saturation turned up pretty high. Can I ask what camera and what settings are you using?

I’m assuming shooting raw with ISO at 100 probably f8 and some type of macro lens (like 100 mm f2.8)

And then probably led lights to enhance the color. In post processing are you increasing the contrast? Saturation?

The reason I ask is that I can do photos like this but to me that isn’t the real color, it takes toning and saturates it , most coins have a subdued toning.

@hfjacinto - we probably want to avoid disclosing proprietary information about the imaging process/equipment, but we do not enhance colors or have post-processing editing (except for image cropping and naming).

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Several hundred more GreatPhotos uploaded yesterday - and another 400-500 will upload in the next 48 hours.

Merry Christmas!!

GC Great Photo images in this thread (at least the silver coins) appear to be slightly red shifted which is troubling to me, and why I mentioned it above but GC reps have not responded. That is typical for halogens, but my experience is that red shift can be corrected using Photoshop and adjusting Temp and Tint in Raw. Alternatively their WB measurement is slighty off irrespective of what lights they are using and they are not correcting this in PS Raw. I spent the last 15 years working on accuracy in images through plastic slabs to have a pic that looks like the coin I see in hand. I did not see that red shift in TV's and I find them to be accurate in terms of colors, mostly. But hey, this is all proprietary according to Mr. Russell in his response to you. Ian imaging is not magic and a 'secret', it is a series of well-known techniques that dozens to 100s of us has spent the time to understand. So hfjacinto's comment here warrants a direct answer. No one is going to steal your Great Photo 'secrets' because really, there are none. We just want to know what you are doing to get the images you are producing. This is important to us when bidding on your coins.................... Hmm.....................................

FlyingAl

@spacehayduke said:

@hfjacinto said:

Great photos but to me you have saturation turned up pretty high. Can I ask what camera and what settings are you using?

I’m assuming shooting raw with ISO at 100 probably f8 and some type of macro lens (like 100 mm f2.8)

And then probably led lights to enhance the color. In post processing are you increasing the contrast? Saturation?

The reason I ask is that I can do photos like this but to me that isn’t the real color, it takes toning and saturates it , most coins have a subdued toning.

@hfjacinto - we probably want to avoid disclosing proprietary information about the imaging process/equipment, but we do not enhance colors or have post-processing editing (except for image cropping and naming).

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Several hundred more GreatPhotos uploaded yesterday - and another 400-500 will upload in the next 48 hours.

Merry Christmas!!

GC Great Photo images in this thread (at least the silver coins) appear to be slightly red shifted which is troubling to me, and why I mentioned it above but GC reps have not responded. That is typical for halogens, but my experience is that red shift can be corrected using Photoshop and adjusting Temp and Tint in Raw. Alternatively their WB measurement is slighty off irrespective of what lights they are using and they are not correcting this in PS Raw. I spent the last 15 years working on accuracy in images through plastic slabs to have a pic that looks like the coin I see in hand. I did not see that red shift in TV's and I find them to be accurate in terms of colors, mostly. But hey, this is all proprietary according to Mr. Russell in his response to you. Ian imaging is not magic and a 'secret', it is a series of well-known techniques that dozens to 100s of us has spent the time to understand. So hfjacinto's comment here warrants a direct answer. No one is going to steal your Great Photo 'secrets' because really, there are none. We just want to know what you are doing to get the images you are producing. This is important to us when bidding on your coins.................... Hmm.....................................

I am rather sure that Phil is using tricks in his setup that many of us don’t use - for example, he may be using non-traditional lights. If he wasn’t, then everyone would produce photos of his caliber, which obviously isn’t true.

I think Ian’s decision not to give specifics is a wise one.

spacehayduke

@FlyingAl said:

@spacehayduke said:

@hfjacinto said:

Great photos but to me you have saturation turned up pretty high. Can I ask what camera and what settings are you using?

I’m assuming shooting raw with ISO at 100 probably f8 and some type of macro lens (like 100 mm f2.8)

And then probably led lights to enhance the color. In post processing are you increasing the contrast? Saturation?

The reason I ask is that I can do photos like this but to me that isn’t the real color, it takes toning and saturates it , most coins have a subdued toning.

@hfjacinto - we probably want to avoid disclosing proprietary information about the imaging process/equipment, but we do not enhance colors or have post-processing editing (except for image cropping and naming).

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Several hundred more GreatPhotos uploaded yesterday - and another 400-500 will upload in the next 48 hours.

Merry Christmas!!

GC Great Photo images in this thread (at least the silver coins) appear to be slightly red shifted which is troubling to me, and why I mentioned it above but GC reps have not responded. That is typical for halogens, but my experience is that red shift can be corrected using Photoshop and adjusting Temp and Tint in Raw. Alternatively their WB measurement is slighty off irrespective of what lights they are using and they are not correcting this in PS Raw. I spent the last 15 years working on accuracy in images through plastic slabs to have a pic that looks like the coin I see in hand. I did not see that red shift in TV's and I find them to be accurate in terms of colors, mostly. But hey, this is all proprietary according to Mr. Russell in his response to you. Ian imaging is not magic and a 'secret', it is a series of well-known techniques that dozens to 100s of us has spent the time to understand. So hfjacinto's comment here warrants a direct answer. No one is going to steal your Great Photo 'secrets' because really, there are none. We just want to know what you are doing to get the images you are producing. This is important to us when bidding on your coins.................... Hmm.....................................

I am rather sure that Phil is using tricks in his setup that many of us don’t use - for example, he may be using non-traditional lights. If he wasn’t, then everyone would produce photos of his caliber, which obviously isn’t true.

I think Ian’s decision not to give specifics is a wise one.

@FlyingAl said:

@spacehayduke said:

@hfjacinto said:

Great photos but to me you have saturation turned up pretty high. Can I ask what camera and what settings are you using?

I’m assuming shooting raw with ISO at 100 probably f8 and some type of macro lens (like 100 mm f2.8)

And then probably led lights to enhance the color. In post processing are you increasing the contrast? Saturation?

The reason I ask is that I can do photos like this but to me that isn’t the real color, it takes toning and saturates it , most coins have a subdued toning.

@hfjacinto - we probably want to avoid disclosing proprietary information about the imaging process/equipment, but we do not enhance colors or have post-processing editing (except for image cropping and naming).

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Several hundred more GreatPhotos uploaded yesterday - and another 400-500 will upload in the next 48 hours.

Merry Christmas!!

GC Great Photo images in this thread (at least the silver coins) appear to be slightly red shifted which is troubling to me, and why I mentioned it above but GC reps have not responded. That is typical for halogens, but my experience is that red shift can be corrected using Photoshop and adjusting Temp and Tint in Raw. Alternatively their WB measurement is slighty off irrespective of what lights they are using and they are not correcting this in PS Raw. I spent the last 15 years working on accuracy in images through plastic slabs to have a pic that looks like the coin I see in hand. I did not see that red shift in TV's and I find them to be accurate in terms of colors, mostly. But hey, this is all proprietary according to Mr. Russell in his response to you. Ian imaging is not magic and a 'secret', it is a series of well-known techniques that dozens to 100s of us has spent the time to understand. So hfjacinto's comment here warrants a direct answer. No one is going to steal your Great Photo 'secrets' because really, there are none. We just want to know what you are doing to get the images you are producing. This is important to us when bidding on your coins.................... Hmm.....................................

I am rather sure that Phil is using tricks in his setup that many of us don’t use - for example, he may be using non-traditional lights. If he wasn’t, then everyone would produce photos of his caliber, which obviously isn’t true.

I think Ian’s decision not to give specifics is a wise one.

LOL, we all have 'tricks', but we don't have the coins he has to make the images unless we buy the GC coins, which I might want to do if I know the images are accurate and why they are, or not. It would be helpful to all aspiring to make the best images possible in this hobby to share information. How can that hurt GC in any way? Well no, it can't. I am happy to discuss my imaging technique with anyone and have and many of my images (not all) are as good as anyone can produce including the big companies with their proprietary info LOL. Frankly, I can reproduce most TV's of the coins I had in hand that his team shot. I am concerned about the 'secret' info here. That DOES not help the hobby nor their buisness and discussing these techniques only benefits the hobby. So stop drinking da kool-aid.................

FlyingAl

@spacehayduke said:

@FlyingAl said:

@spacehayduke said:

@hfjacinto said:

Great photos but to me you have saturation turned up pretty high. Can I ask what camera and what settings are you using?

I’m assuming shooting raw with ISO at 100 probably f8 and some type of macro lens (like 100 mm f2.8)

And then probably led lights to enhance the color. In post processing are you increasing the contrast? Saturation?

The reason I ask is that I can do photos like this but to me that isn’t the real color, it takes toning and saturates it , most coins have a subdued toning.

@hfjacinto - we probably want to avoid disclosing proprietary information about the imaging process/equipment, but we do not enhance colors or have post-processing editing (except for image cropping and naming).

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Several hundred more GreatPhotos uploaded yesterday - and another 400-500 will upload in the next 48 hours.

Merry Christmas!!

GC Great Photo images in this thread (at least the silver coins) appear to be slightly red shifted which is troubling to me, and why I mentioned it above but GC reps have not responded. That is typical for halogens, but my experience is that red shift can be corrected using Photoshop and adjusting Temp and Tint in Raw. Alternatively their WB measurement is slighty off irrespective of what lights they are using and they are not correcting this in PS Raw. I spent the last 15 years working on accuracy in images through plastic slabs to have a pic that looks like the coin I see in hand. I did not see that red shift in TV's and I find them to be accurate in terms of colors, mostly. But hey, this is all proprietary according to Mr. Russell in his response to you. Ian imaging is not magic and a 'secret', it is a series of well-known techniques that dozens to 100s of us has spent the time to understand. So hfjacinto's comment here warrants a direct answer. No one is going to steal your Great Photo 'secrets' because really, there are none. We just want to know what you are doing to get the images you are producing. This is important to us when bidding on your coins.................... Hmm.....................................

I am rather sure that Phil is using tricks in his setup that many of us don’t use - for example, he may be using non-traditional lights. If he wasn’t, then everyone would produce photos of his caliber, which obviously isn’t true.

I think Ian’s decision not to give specifics is a wise one.

@FlyingAl said:

@spacehayduke said:

@hfjacinto said:

Great photos but to me you have saturation turned up pretty high. Can I ask what camera and what settings are you using?

I’m assuming shooting raw with ISO at 100 probably f8 and some type of macro lens (like 100 mm f2.8)

And then probably led lights to enhance the color. In post processing are you increasing the contrast? Saturation?

The reason I ask is that I can do photos like this but to me that isn’t the real color, it takes toning and saturates it , most coins have a subdued toning.

@hfjacinto - we probably want to avoid disclosing proprietary information about the imaging process/equipment, but we do not enhance colors or have post-processing editing (except for image cropping and naming).

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Several hundred more GreatPhotos uploaded yesterday - and another 400-500 will upload in the next 48 hours.

Merry Christmas!!

GC Great Photo images in this thread (at least the silver coins) appear to be slightly red shifted which is troubling to me, and why I mentioned it above but GC reps have not responded. That is typical for halogens, but my experience is that red shift can be corrected using Photoshop and adjusting Temp and Tint in Raw. Alternatively their WB measurement is slighty off irrespective of what lights they are using and they are not correcting this in PS Raw. I spent the last 15 years working on accuracy in images through plastic slabs to have a pic that looks like the coin I see in hand. I did not see that red shift in TV's and I find them to be accurate in terms of colors, mostly. But hey, this is all proprietary according to Mr. Russell in his response to you. Ian imaging is not magic and a 'secret', it is a series of well-known techniques that dozens to 100s of us has spent the time to understand. So hfjacinto's comment here warrants a direct answer. No one is going to steal your Great Photo 'secrets' because really, there are none. We just want to know what you are doing to get the images you are producing. This is important to us when bidding on your coins.................... Hmm.....................................

I am rather sure that Phil is using tricks in his setup that many of us don’t use - for example, he may be using non-traditional lights. If he wasn’t, then everyone would produce photos of his caliber, which obviously isn’t true.

I think Ian’s decision not to give specifics is a wise one.

LOL, we all have 'tricks', but we don't have the coins he has to make the images unless we buy the GC coins, which I might want to do if I know the images are accurate and why they are, or not. It would be helpful to all aspiring to make the best images possible in this hobby to share information. How can that hurt GC in any way? Well no, it can't. I am happy to discuss my imaging technique with anyone and have and many of my images (not all) are as good as anyone can produce including the big companies with their proprietary info LOL. Frankly, I can reproduce most TV's of the coins I had in hand that his team shot. I am concerned about the 'secret' info here. That DOES not help the hobby nor their buisness and discussing these techniques only benefits the hobby. So stop drinking da kool-aid.................

I don’t have a problem with almost all of your post, but I do think giving away all of the info regarding their setup will hurt GC by allowing their competitors to produce images of the same quality, and would therefore reduce their revenue.

Again, this is all my opinion and I do respect yours. I just don’t think everyone will take the same stance.

ProofCollection

GC's best interest is to make the coins look as accurate as possible. They do allow returns but I'm sure they'd prefer not to have any. The best way to ensure this is to have what is considered to be the most accurate photos possible. Of course, that definition is subjective.

spacehayduke

@FlyingAl said:

I don’t have a problem with almost all of your post, but I do think giving away all of the info regarding their setup will hurt GC by allowing their competitors to produce images of the same quality, and would therefore reduce their revenue.

Again, this is all my opinion and I do respect yours. I just don’t think everyone will take the same stance.

No worries. My understanding of these boards is that we are here to pass on and exchange information about numismatics, and photography is part of it. When Phil chimed in here, it was a welcome addition. Like almost everyone here I know does, when asked a specific question about their imaging, they respond. Heck, even many here have posted images of their setups - lights, cameras, lenses, computers, copy stands.

The idea that somehow passing coin photographic information on here would somehow "allow their competitors to produce images of the same quality, and would therefore reduce their revenue" is not likely to be true. If their competitors wanted to provide better images, they would, there is a time and cost factor to do great photography, some decide to some don't, so exchanging information here on technique would not really be a factor in how major auction houses decide what is best for maxing revenue.

Best, SH

scubafuel

If the goal is to have Phil and other professionals post more to the boards, I’d drop the “open kimono” demands. Just as dealers and even collectors have aspects of their business they’d rather not discuss, so do photographers and auctioneers (and maybe even scientists).

To expect otherwise seems pretty unreasonable.

Zoins

@FlyingAl said:
I do think giving away all of the info regarding their setup will hurt GC by allowing their competitors to produce images of the same quality, and would therefore reduce their revenue.

Again, this is all my opinion and I do respect yours. I just don’t think everyone will take the same stance.

To me, having people be able to, and want to, reproduce the image is a good thing, not a bad thing.

The value that GreatPhoto provides to me is not that it's better or different than other images, but that it's of a standard format from an authoritative source, including the number and QR code.

Zoins

@P0CKETCHANGE said:
They are both a product of different lighting, and both photos may have even been taken by the same photographer. PCGS as a standard practice takes and stores two photos of each coin, each under different lighting. For ex., here are two TrueViews of the same coin taken during the same submission:

It's great they take multiple images.

I wish they would show them all on cert verification.

Rexford

@spacehayduke said:

@FlyingAl said:

I don’t have a problem with almost all of your post, but I do think giving away all of the info regarding their setup will hurt GC by allowing their competitors to produce images of the same quality, and would therefore reduce their revenue.

Again, this is all my opinion and I do respect yours. I just don’t think everyone will take the same stance.

The idea that somehow passing coin photographic information on here would somehow "allow their competitors to produce images of the same quality, and would therefore reduce their revenue" is not likely to be true. If their competitors wanted to provide better images, they would, there is a time and cost factor to do great photography, some decide to some don't, so exchanging information here on technique would not really be a factor in how major auction houses decide what is best for maxing revenue.

Best, SH

I think you’re missing the difference between a large-scale company with millions of dollars in revenue sharing information about their methods and your average Joe on the forum sharing information about their methods. I can give you my own recipe for coca cola, but the Coca Cola company will not give you theirs. GC hired Phil for a reason.

HillbillyCollector

@DeplorableDan said:
This is a HUGE step forward for GC. These advancements are surely going to attract more high-end consignments, Bravo Ian and Phil!

>
Totally agree with Dan. I have hesitated about buying from GC in the past because I wasn’t comfortable with what I was seeing. And this gets much more scary when looking at 5+ figure coins! One wants as accurate pics as possible. Surprises in this arena are not all that welcome.
>
I look forward to playing around more with GC in the future.

ldhair

Phil
I notice some listings show a third composite image. Is that a listing option or is that something that is only done on higher priced coins?

spacehayduke

@Rexford said:
I think you’re missing the difference between a large-scale company with millions of dollars in revenue sharing information about their methods and your average Joe on the forum sharing information about their methods. I can give you my own recipe for coca cola, but the Coca Cola company will not give you theirs. GC hired Phil for a reason.

I am not missing anything. A person above asked Phil what f-stop he was using and the ISO. There is no secret info there that somehow affects a companies 'millions of dollars', this is silly. As I clearly noted above, it is all about cost and time if a company desires to have great photos. Kudos to GC to at least do some of their photos right by hiring a great numismatic photographer.

And I am no AVERAGE JOE on the forum, nor are any of the other high level numismatic photographers on this forum, nor anyone else that posts here. I just believe in open information where warranted. It was nice to see Phil opening up, but no worries if f-stops and ISO are proprietary.........

hfjacinto

I just got back, telling me f stop, iso or what calibration they use in no way should be a trade secret. Almost all the photos everyone sees on a photo site has this information.

Honestly most people on here have no idea, they take photos with a iPhone and let the phone make all decisions, heck most photos are blurry and bad.

I use several cameras to take pictures, in many cases I reject more than I keep, every picture I take I try to be as real as possible. A LOT of the coin pictures I see on GC and true view are way over saturated. Maybe on a weird angle looking from a 90° angle the coin may look like that, but even lower grade MS coins you can barely see scratches. I take a picture to show what the coins look like not a “model shot” of a coin.

So my question I think is warranted, it’s not a trade secret. If the majority likes highly saturated model shot of coins then that’s fine. It’s just not real to me.

wondercoin

A very wise guy once told me the problem comes in when his hired top gun experts (in any field - photography or Asian stock picking) “start believing their own sh-t”. 😂

Wondercoin.

ianrussell

h cameras regularly, due to the volume - and> @spacehayduke said:

@Rexford said:
I think you’re missing the difference between a large-scale company with millions of dollars in revenue sharing information about their methods and your average Joe on the forum sharing information about their methods. I can give you my own recipe for coca cola, but the Coca Cola company will not give you theirs. GC hired Phil for a reason.

I am not missing anything. A person above asked Phil what f-stop he was using and the ISO. Seriously? Do you have any idea what that is? There is no secret info there that somehow affects a companies 'millions of dollars', this is silly. As I clearly noted above, it is all about cost and time if a company desires to have great photos. Kudos to GC to at least do some of their photos right by hiring a great numismatic photographer. There is no proprietary info to divulge on camera, lighting, copy stand, settings, etc, and that was ALL that was asked by the other poster. I laughed at the GC response bc, this is silly.

My response contained no humor. We just have to agree to disagree. We even found by telling coin collectors the type of camera we use ended up costing us thousands of dollars (because one collector bought up the only few that were on the market at the time and we had to overpay in a moment we really needed more). (further background: we use a camera that is out of production and trades at a significant premium over the original retail price; they are rare and have a cult-like following). We go through about five or six of these cameras a year, and they can't be fixed to the standard we need them. One day, we're going to have a giveaway with the cameras we no longer use.

• Ian

spacehayduke

@ianrussell said:
h cameras regularly, due to the volume - and> @spacehayduke said:

@Rexford said:
I think you’re missing the difference between a large-scale company with millions of dollars in revenue sharing information about their methods and your average Joe on the forum sharing information about their methods. I can give you my own recipe for coca cola, but the Coca Cola company will not give you theirs. GC hired Phil for a reason.

I am not missing anything. A person above asked Phil what f-stop he was using and the ISO. Seriously? Do you have any idea what that is? There is no secret info there that somehow affects a companies 'millions of dollars', this is silly. As I clearly noted above, it is all about cost and time if a company desires to have great photos. Kudos to GC to at least do some of their photos right by hiring a great numismatic photographer. There is no proprietary info to divulge on camera, lighting, copy stand, settings, etc, and that was ALL that was asked by the other poster. I laughed at the GC response bc, this is silly.

My response contained no humor. We just have to agree to disagree. We even found by telling coin collectors the type of camera we use ended up costing us thousands of dollars (because one collector bought up the only few that were on the market at the time and we had to overpay in a moment we really needed more). (further background: we use a camera that is out of production and trades at a significant premium over the original retail price; they are rare and have a cult-like following). We go through about five or six of these cameras a year, and they can't be fixed to the standard we need them. One day, we're going to have a giveaway with the cameras we no longer use.

• Ian

Thanks for the response Ian, doing Great Photos is a huge step up and a great move.