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Who here is going to bid on the Sacagawea Mule at Great Collections?!

KurisuKurisu Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited December 13, 2023 9:02PM in U.S. Coin Forum

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1502304/Mint-Error-2000-P-Sacagawea-Dollar-Mule-with-Washington-Quarter-PCGS-MS-66

Great Collections description -
Mint Error (2000)-P Sacagawea Dollar Mule with Washington Quarter PCGS MS-66
About two dozen examples are known, since it was first discovered by Frank Wallis of Arkansas in the year of issue, 2000. It was the first "mule" released into circulation by the U.S. Mint - a "mule" is defined as a coin minted with obverse and reverse dies not normally seen on the same piece. It has been graded PCGS MS-66, which is tied for the finest graded by PCGS. Of the small number known, there are three different dies, this coin is Die 1, with the main die characteristic present on the F of OF (Sacagawea) to the edge of coin.

For one of the most famous errors to ever leave the U.S. Mint, only a few are available for collectors to own, as all others have been purchased over the years by a single collector. It's a striking error and understandable why it's been atop modern error lists for over twenty years since it was first discovered.

The 100 Greatest U.S. Mint Errors book by David Camire, Nicholas Brown and Fred Weinberg featured the Sacagawea Mule on the cover as well as ranked the mule as the #1 U.S. coin error.

Coins are Neato!

"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

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Comments

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2023 9:05PM

    Can I call a friend? @MWallace 😉

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if Tommy Bolack will bid on it :)

  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭✭✭

    41 days left? I'll probably forget to bid :D
    The new picture format looks great!

  • EliteCollectionEliteCollection Posts: 149 ✭✭✭✭

    Count me in!

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @EliteCollection said:
    Count me in!

    C'mon Really???

  • EliteCollectionEliteCollection Posts: 149 ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, Tommy Bolack is getting some competition. :D

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,333 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    IMHO, when folks try to “corner markets” such as with this coin, things usually end very poorly. I seem to recall the cornering of the proof vdb cent market not ending all that well for the hoarder. Here, there are many factors why I haven’t bought one of these coins in the past roughly 20 years. First and foremost, modern coin rarities with a mintage of 24 -28 usually trade well under a hundred grand. Ex: 1964 SMS 50C, Frosted Freedom $25. But, when the known mintage on this mule was around only a dozen, it was arguably worth $200K+ - in line with other modern rarities such as the Frosted Freedom $100 (pop 12). When mintages get in that “third” dozen coins, prices drop like a rock (ex: No S 1968-S 10C). Just like values on real estate are tied to location,, values on great modern coins are very connected to mintages, mintages and mintages. I can’t get my mind around where exactly this mintage will be in 10 more years. Will it stay here in the “two dozen” range or be at 3-5 dozen, making it a potentially significantly lower value? And, what of the hoarder? What if his hoard becomes available next year hypothetically? What if it is all consigned to GC? What might 15+ specimens hitting the market due to the values? These, and many other factors play into assessing pursuing this coin. Finally, when PCGS recently decided to create its “light” version of the Top 100 Modern coins, it set aside the coins that they considered the great modern rarities that the average collector couldn’t afford. They made this coin the #1 coin of the “light” version set - essentially not even recognizing it as the major modern coin rarity deserving of being excluded from the “light” set. Another seriously confusing point to assessing the proper values to these coins.

    But, also, let’s not forget the Exceedingly Rare 2001-D Cent/Dime Mule. All 4 sales at Heritage as shown:

    2001-D Lincoln Cent, MS66 Red
Muled with a Roosevelt Dime Reverse

    (Set to be auctioned): January, 2024: Coin # 4: (“Probably, the four known 2001-D cent / dime mules were struck on the same day, by the same die pair, on the same press”).

    June 17, 2021: $114,000 (MS66)(no mention of any other coins believed to be known for this mule or not known).
    February 24, 2022: $78,000 (MS65) (“The present coin is the second-known 2001-D cent / dime mule”).
    August 24, 2022: $66,000 MS65) (“More likely than not, the three known 2001-D cent / dime mules were struck on the same day, from the same muled die pair.”)

    So, are there only 4 of these 2001-D Cent mules or more of them? Are there around 24- 28 of the Dollar/Sac Mules (a well known error dealer is sitting on some raw ones) or many more of those? Mintage, mintage, mintage controls modern coin rarity pricing is my “mantra”. Just look at the “trajectory” of that 2001-D Cent/Dime mule (all within just 14 months) with each passing coin realized (and all coins at gem or better in PCGS holders: $114,000 to $78,000 to $66,000 to ??? in January, 2024?

    Personally, I’ll wait for the Dollar/Sac Mule gems to come down to around $50,000 - an entry point I can live with.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Wondercoin.

    While mintage! Mintage! Mintage! It's certainly important, so is publicity (hype?)

    Note: I'm not saying I would want one at current levels.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    not me but I do find it interesting there are 3 die pairs for this ultra rarity

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2023 8:55AM

    Actually…

    There is a Flying Eagle Cent muled to an Indian Head Cent, PCGS, listed as a pattern with a Judd #…. But come on lol

    And a 1994 muled Cent/ Dime

    And a 1995 muled Cent/Dime

    And a couple 2 tailed Dimes and Quarters

    And several other regular die designs muled, a few that are known publicly and a few that aren’t.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,816 ✭✭✭✭✭

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,...
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Forgot to mention this 2 Headed Nickel

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What surprised me is that these 2 unique Sac $ mules both sold for under 100k!


    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,536 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2023 10:56AM

    Where did the "legit" ones come from? I have a couple hundreds - maybe a couple thousand - still in shotgun rolls. Am I potentially rich? :p

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    JBK- sorry, but no!

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭✭✭

    More of these will be found. Bet on it. I heard of a mini hoard that's supposedly sitting in the Midwest a few years ago when having a convo at an ILNA show-the numbers I heard then varied from 6-10 pieces. But- who knows? At any rate- No way would I touch one anywhere near current levels because they've nowhere to go but down imo. And when the Bolock hoard eventually comes on the market, that alone will likely drop values if nothing else. Pieces like these have a fairly thin market at the top end. Too speculative for me given that there tons of unopened rolls out there.


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • @davewesen said:
    not me but I do find it interesting there are 3 die pairs for this ultra rarity

    I would say so too!

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2023 3:04PM

    I’m the high bidder
    **+edited
    I was the high bidder and was just passed. 🤔

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    Pass. There's a spot on the obverse. I'll wait for a cleaner one. :)

    The spot is probably from being found in a Wal-Mart parking lot. PMD :D:D
    Also @OAKSTAR

  • redraiderredraider Posts: 120 ✭✭✭✭

    Love the photos!!! GreatCollections will be a much stronger auction house with the investment they put in the photography!

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭✭✭

    NOPE. Im about 100K short and not of fan of shenanigan coins however cool they might be.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • Farmer1961Farmer1961 Posts: 166 ✭✭✭

    Just my humble opinion but if I were gonna buy a modern rarity it would be a 1969-s doubled die cent for far less than these sell for.

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would have been a bidder back when they were $30k, but wasn't sure the Gov't would let me keep it!

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • OnastoneOnastone Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    Forgot to mention this 2 Headed Nickel

    I was wondering if anyone had any two headed coins. Not magician coins, bona fide dual headed coins. ( Also not talking' about the Jovita Idar quarter either!!)

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2023 7:17AM

    It will be very interesting to see what these 2 mules, the Sac/Quarter and Cent/Dime, realize in their January 2025 auctions, since the population of each is slowly increasing.

    Likely intentionally struck mint errors, U.S. mules are popular and very rare.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,616 ✭✭✭✭✭

    First, we need the 2024 sales info! 😝

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • 124Spider124Spider Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a bit (?) above my pay grade. But it's a VERY cool error!

  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think the bigger question here is why is the auction ending on a wednesday afternoon? Is greatcollections going to alternate auction days now?

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:
    not me but I do find it interesting there are 3 die pairs for this ultra rarity

    So do I.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I forgot to mention this intentional mint error mule when I listed the other ones:

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    I forgot to mention this intentional mint error mule when I listed the other ones:

    Great coin Mike!

    I had a lot of fun writing the census article for these a while ago :)

    https://minterrornews.com/features-4-14-22-lincoln-dime-mule-census.html

  • Klif50Klif50 Posts: 658 ✭✭✭✭

    When these were first reported, I believe, there were reports of them showing up in the USPS stamp machines in change. I spent several hundred dollars putting in 10's and 20's, buying the cheapest stamps and grabbing the change looking for a mule. It was fun but a wasted several days.

  • KurisuKurisu Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2024 8:04AM

    19d, 1h, 42m, 26s left...

    Current Bid: $52,500.00
    I think it's absolutely lovely and I feel like it's going to go for over $100k.

    I'm guessing... $105,000

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • KurisuKurisu Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just a little update with a couple of days left on the bidding...

    Bid history: 69 bids (view)
    Time left: 2d, 5h, 59m, 16s (Sun, Jan 21, 2024 06:57:24 PM Pacific Time)
    Current Bid: $77,500.00
    High bidder: bidder 22

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kurisu said:
    Just a little update with a couple of days left on the bidding...

    Bid history: 69 bids (view)
    Time left: 2d, 5h, 59m, 16s (Sun, Jan 21, 2024 06:57:24 PM Pacific Time)
    Current Bid: $77,500.00
    High bidder: bidder 22

    Nice but for that cash. I would rather have the complete set of CC Morgan Dollars. Graded too!
    ;)

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,409 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely on my watchlist, no way I bid. I just bought a house instead <3

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,451 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As much as I would love to be the owner of one of these coins, having six-figures for a house down payment this summer is more important. Being poor in the hobby of kings makes the game tough. I hope a certain forum member that is willing to chat with people here and share is able to walk away with it. That’s a lot more fun. I’ll be cheering him on.

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • KurisuKurisu Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's moving!...

    Time left: 1d, 6h, 1m, 15s (Sun, Jan 21, 2024 06:57:24 PM Pacific Time)
    Current Bid: $82,500.00
    High bidder: bidder 23

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • KurisuKurisu Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭✭✭

    8 hours left...still time left for you to bid!! :p
    Or make a prediction!

    Time left: 8h, 0m, 0s (Sun, Jan 21, 2024 06:57:24 PM Pacific Time)
    Current Bid: $82,500.00
    High bidder: bidder 23

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    $92,500 with 27 minutes to go.

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Winning bid with Buyer's Fee:

    $ 194,062.50

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • KurisuKurisu Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    Winning bid with Buyer's Fee:

    $ 194,062.50

    Holy wow!!!
    The high end of my prediction was $125k

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2024 9:22PM

    removed

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