On GC the Blay 1877 66+RD CAC Indian is over $200K

Clackamas1

Great coin. I have to settle for something less. It is a 66RD+ CAC It is the TOP pop.

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1455965/1877-Indian-Cent-PCGS-MS-66-RD-CAC-Green

TwoSides2aCoin

It’s not surprising. A highly acclaimed artist with the finest of all. Like that guitar of Eric Clapton which just sold for over $1.25 (1.27) million, to be exact. What a whopping ROI for the benefactor. Bravo !

tcollects

I'd like the Clapton guitar for more than 6x than the lovely Blay cent, plus you never know when that sucker will turn

Clackamas1

@tcollects said:
I'd like the Clapton guitar for more than 6x than the lovely Blay cent, plus you never know when that sucker will turn

I hope you are joking because that in my opinion I am taking the Blay 1877 cent hands down. You do know that kids don't know who Clapton is as an artist. That value fades. The 1877 still holds its value a ~150 years after Clapton was born.

Manifest_Destiny

Lakesammman

Stunning coin in person - when Stewart displayed his set, it was a real highlight!

Clackamas1

Does anyone know - top of your head what he paid? I can research it but thought someone may know.

renomedphys

I believe Tony Terranova bought it raw for Stew who gave instructions to pay up to $100k. I’m not sure what he actually ended up paying.

EagleEye

He bought it raw for $71,300 in 1999.

The story is in my Book:

asheland

I’m proud of my VF 25 example, it’s a humble example, but this… This is extraordinary!

Clackamas1

Thanks Mr. Snow.

Clackamas1

Well the new price record has been surmounted. $256K so far... I wonder how far people will push each other.

EagleEye

My guess is $775K.

Clackamas1

@EagleEye said:
My guess is $775K.

WOW! So does that get an eagle eye?

Manifest_Destiny

275k so far.

winesteven

@Clackamas1 said:

@EagleEye said:
My guess is $775K.

WOW! So does that get an eagle eye?

Absolutely!

Steve

winesteven

@tcollects said:
I'd like the Clapton guitar for more than 6x than the lovely Blay cent, plus you never know when that sucker will turn

OK, so the coin was raw, fully exposed to oxygen for 122 years, and then encapsulated for the past 24 years in two holders that are not air-tight, and you avoid buying red copper for fear that all of a sudden after 146 years it will suddenly turn? I agree if it’s stored improperly in a humid environment, or perhaps near the ocean in a salty air environment, yes, it can/will turn. But there are tens of thousands of red copper coins that are well over 100 years old that are now encapsulated, many for decades, that have been well cared for environmentally.

Steve

tcollects

now here me out - I have a theory why we see red cents now and not in the medium term future - if these coins were with other red cents, the oxidation potential would be large, so every coin on the edges would tone a little, until the oxygen was used up, then the coins in the middle would stay red, but the coins on the outside would tone. This is what we see with end roll toners or the Randall Hoard, or other kegs of coppers that have been found over the years. The least oxygen, the more red. There's a difference between 24 years and 146 years. A lot of coins have turned after they were removed from their oxygen-free environment, and we don't exactly know why that happens.

winesteven

Yes, that happens. But this Blay coin was first encapsulated 24 years ago in a non-airtight holder in 1999, after having spent 122 years raw. It then changed holders when upgraded with a plus. If it still hasn’t turned, why would it turn all of a sudden if maintained well going forward? As noted in my reply before yours, my theory is coins that turn in holders after having been encapsulated for MANY years are those kept in poor humid environments.

Steve

7Jaguars

Umm, not quite the logic that I care for in your post Sir. I also do not believe your question posed is particularly relevant. I do not believe anyone of sense is proposing that the coin in question will "turn" overnight.
Your point that many "red" coins are in slabs and haven't change for similar reasons is not particularly relevant.

Please cite cases of Roman or Byzantine bronze or copper that remains unmolested "red", or for that matter Classical Greek or Ptolomeic. The natural course is for coins, and moreso copper alloy coins to oxidize with time on a slower or perhaps more rapid time frame. I also notice that you do not specifically deny that coins will turn/oxidize in the holder - deductively it would seem you agree this may occur.

Simple prognostication built on the evidence is that the coin will at some time change color and oxidize, whichever form that might be.

winesteven

OK, I agree you are correct in that it's quite likely that at some point well after our great-grandchildren pass away, this could/will change from Red to RB.

Steve

bidask

@winesteven said:
OK, I agree you are correct in that it's quite likely that at some point well after after our great-grandchildren pass away, this could/will change from Red to RB.

Steve

Well if the happens then a large value drop I suspect....thats the gamble one has ( red to red brown) by collecting copper coins.

winesteven

@bidask said:

@winesteven said:
OK, I agree you are correct in that it's quite likely that at some point well after after our great-grandchildren pass away, this could/will change from Red to RB.

Steve

Well if the happens then a large value drop I suspect....that's the gamble one has ( red to red brown) by collecting copper coins.

It's possible the buyer tonight might not be too concerned when the coin changes to RB a couple of hundred years from now. If you and I are still around, please bring it to my attention, lol.

Steve

EagleEye

Most non-red coins in red holders that I have seen didn't change in their holders, they were graded wrong from the outset.

You must store them properly though. @winesteven knows that living in South Florida, precautions must be taken. The Castle collection, which was statistically higher than Stewart's collection was stored in a sealed box with inert gas injected in. That was a bit too elaborate for most people, but a sealed baggie with silica gel does the trick as well.

tradedollarnut

winesteven

@EagleEye said:
Most non-red coins in red holders that I have seen didn't change in their holders, they were graded wrong from the outset.

You must store them properly though. @winesteven knows that living in South Florida, precautions must be taken. The Castle collection, which was statistically higher than Stewart's collection was stored in a sealed box with inert gas injected in. That was a bit too elaborate for most people, but a sealed baggie with silica gel does the trick as well.

Thank you Rick, as you are the world's foremost expert on Indian Head Cents (and Flying Eagles as well).

Steve

Manifest_Destiny

285k with 5:45 left.

Manifest_Destiny

Still 285k with 50m left.

Manifest_Destiny

303k final

winesteven

I got one Blay Indian (my first, as I was blown out on two last week). Tonight I was the underbidder on another, but lost by more than a full increment, so no regrets. The one I got tonight was NOT the 1877 66+RD, lol.

Steve

renomedphys

Cheap in retrospect. Hope the winner is jazzed.

renomedphys

@tradedollarnut said:

🤩

7Jaguars

Since people try to throw up anecdotes:
I have a Gr. Britain 1926ME Penny bought from the Spink Numismatic Circular 23 years ago and it has despite the most protection I can provided lost some of its brilliant uncleaned color. I had the same thing happen to a GB 1849 penny (these are both exceedingly rare in top grade) It most certainly was not cleaned, nor were any of its "mates". That was as per Steve Hill and Mark Rasmussen, possibly the foremost experts in the late pre-decimal milled series. I have the most recent picture and will post the earlier photograph later on. Certainly copper and copper alloy coins may change in holders despite the best of precautions.

BTW, are you saying it will be HUNDREDS of years before that 1877 changes? I wouldn't make that bet. And speculation does not prove points, my points have been to put a crack into absolute sentiment.

Most Recent:

https://d1htnxwo4o0jhw.cloudfront.net/pcgs/cert/36665146/151377854.jpg

Picture same coin from 8 years ago - already RB it was a Red when bought in year 2000:

oreville

@winesteven said:

@tcollects said:
I'd like the Clapton guitar for more than 6x than the lovely Blay cent, plus you never know when that sucker will turn

OK, so the coin was raw, fully exposed to oxygen for 122 years, and then encapsulated for the past 24 years in two holders that are not air-tight, and you avoid buying red copper for fear that all of a sudden after 146 years it will suddenly turn? I agree if it’s stored improperly in a humid environment, or perhaps near the ocean in a salty air environment, yes, it can/will turn. But there are tens of thousands of red copper coins that are well over 100 years old that are now encapsulated, many for decades, that have been well cared for environmentally.

Steve

Steve, if you like red cents then you should have stayed up north?

I am slowly moving to near your neighborhood in FL as you know but my coins are staying up north.

oreville

@EagleEye said:
He bought it raw for $71,300 in 1999.

The story is in my Book:

Rick Snow is the best. I was happy to see him in Baltimore. But not currently doing anything in FE or NDN cents.

winesteven

Thanks, appreciated, but I'm OK with a combination of Intercept boxes, regularly refreshioned Silica Gel, using exhaust fans when showering (with the door closed) and most importantly, having my two large A/C units set to keep the humidity in my house extra low,

Steve

oreville

My A/C system up north has been good for 14 years without any compressor replacement but in FL the a/c needed compressor replacement after 6 years!!

winesteven

@oreville said:
My A/C system up north has been good for 14 years without any compressor replacement but in FL the a/c needed compressor replacement after 6 years!!

Separately, at least on my high end units, the technician can make adjustments to provide for a lower humidity setting, not just temperature with the thermostat!

Steve

oreville

@winesteven said:

@oreville said:
My A/C system up north has been good for 14 years without any compressor replacement but in FL the a/c needed compressor replacement after 6 years!!

Separately, at least on my high end units, the technician can make adjustments to provide for a lower humidity setting, not just temperature with the thermostat!

Steve

I did not know that! Coming down Dec 3 for the month of December!

winesteven

Great! Call me to set a date to get together.

Steve

DCW

$340,875 all in for those interested in the final price. Did someone say "cheap?!"

sniocsu

Pretty good for one of the finest 1877s IMO

Clackamas1

@sniocsu said:
Pretty good for one of the finest 1877s IMO

The finest.

Clackamas1

@DCW said:
$340,875 all in for those interested in the final price. Did someone say "cheap?!"

I have a feeling that was not the final bill for that buyer. I got blown out or was under bidder on so many coins, did not win a single one. I even put in stupid bids and lost. I think whomever it was would have paid more.

DCW

I know the feeling. There was an auction a while back that I looked forward to in great anticipation. It was loaded with things I "needed." I was prepared to do whatever it took to bring glory upon my name. 😆 First lot, I went into crazy territory bidding 3 times what I expected and still losing. Hmm, odd. Second lot, same as the first lot. Third, fourth, fifth...damnit, the same guy is buying it all and has no idea on prices or doesn't care.
Sigh, you can't compete with a millionaire.

Clackamas1

Sigh, you can't compete with a millionaire.

Billionaire; there were plenty of millionaire's bidding that got sacked. There is a league that many of us can't compete but some are close. We should just start over @ 20 and make better choices. It is what I try to teach my children, One just wants to be an artist; she is fantastic - Great sell your stuff ... 'no that detracts from being and artist - DAD' - "'head slap". Someday you will be a millionaire but you will be like 70 when we die. I think the other gets it. He has all the backing and will go to a top engineering school. I do hope since I have run a business his entire life he just gets it.

tcollects

@Clackamas1 said:

We should just start over @ 20 and make better choices.

I wish I could go back in time and shake the nonsense out of my head for about 5 minutes, then chase all the girls I never chased.

GoBust

I spoke with the winner of the "Princess". He could not be more pleased, I'd say ecstatic. I suspect he would have gone much higher. IMHO you could argue for a half million in value. I saw the coin in hand at the Baltimore show and was mesmerized by its eye appeal for an 1877 key, not to mention its technical merits.

Clackamas1

@GoBust said:
I spoke with the winner of the "Princess". He could not be more pleased, I'd say ecstatic. I suspect he would have gone much higher. IMHO you could argue for a half million in value. I saw the coin in hand at the Baltimore show and was mesmerized by its eye appeal for an 1877 key, not to mention its technical merits.

Give him my congrats - I truly hope he enjoys the coin. It is a special coin. Please treat her well, since some one will own it in 600 years.

DCW

@GoBust said:
I spoke with the winner of the "Princess". He could not be more pleased, I'd say ecstatic. I suspect he would have gone much higher. IMHO you could argue for a half million in value. I saw the coin in hand at the Baltimore show and was mesmerized by its eye appeal for an 1877 key, not to mention its technical merits.

A true privilege to own that beauty. I love knowing Stuart's prized coins are bringing so much joy to so many people. Our coins will outlive us all.

BillJones

@EagleEye said:
Most non-red coins in red holders that I have seen didn't change in their holders, they were graded wrong from the outset.

You must store them properly though. @winesteven knows that living in South Florida, precautions must be taken. The Castle collection, which was statistically higher than Stewart's collection was stored in a sealed box with inert gas injected in. That was a bit too elaborate for most people, but a sealed baggie with silica gel does the trick as well.

I have paid a 6 figure number for gold, but never red copper. I have paid strong money for R&B and brown copper and never had a problem. Lustrous Brown is my favorite.

I did have a gold coin develop a copper stain, but that was a unique occurrence. Perhaps it had been dipped. It was a 1903 Louisiana Purchase Jefferson commemorative gold dollar that came with the box of issue, back in the mid 1970s.