@BillJones said:
I stay away from all coins with a “details” grade. Usually I find their problems to be too distracting to warrant my ownership. I would be drawn to the problem every time I looked at the piece. From the resale side, the problem will always stand in the way of realizing the full potential of an upward swing in the market.
Everyone talks about the exit price and not the entry price. Yes, the details coin will always sell at a discount. You also bought it at a discount.
I have never bought a details-graded coin, but I certainly can see circumstances in which I might (e.g., the only way I can afford a copy of a coin I very much want, and the "problem" isn't too distracting, given the price).
The problem of "you got it at a discount, so don't worry about selling at a discount," to me, is simply that, AFAIK, the market for details-graded coins isn't well-defined (e.g., there's no "price guide" for that coin), so it's a stab in the dark that you're getting it at a good price when you buy it (where, by "good price," I mean one that bears some resemblance, relative to the rest of the market, to what you'll sell it for, relative to that market).
@BillJones said:
I stay away from all coins with a “details” grade. Usually I find their problems to be too distracting to warrant my ownership. I would be drawn to the problem every time I looked at the piece. From the resale side, the problem will always stand in the way of realizing the full potential of an upward swing in the market.
Everyone talks about the exit price and not the entry price. Yes, the details coin will always sell at a discount. You also bought it at a discount.
I have never bought a details-graded coin, but I certainly can see circumstances in which I might (e.g., the only way I can afford a copy of a coin I very much want, and the "problem" isn't too distracting, given the price).
The problem of "you got it at a discount, so don't worry about selling at a discount," to me, is simply that, AFAIK, the market for details-graded coins isn't well-defined (e.g., there's no "price guide" for that coin), so it's a stab in the dark that you're getting it at a good price when you buy it (where, by "good price," I mean one that bears some resemblance, relative to the rest of the market, to what you'll sell it for, relative to that market).
Yes, there is some price uncertainty on details coins. But that can work in your favor as well as against.
@stevek said:
The original skin is a must for my collecting interest. Cleaned coins definitely not.
Always an AU50 over an UNC details cleaned, no exceptions.
Imagine a lightly cleaned, naturally retoned, slightly banged up and obviously circulated 1799 Bust Dollar in an AU 50 holder. In other words, a typical 1799 Bust Dollar in 50. Now, imagine a perfectly original and strictly uncirculated piece with beautiful color, except that someone neatly carved a small X in the reverse field 200 years ago. Now in a details holder, of course. Which one would you rather own?
Sorry, but I'd see that dam x on the coin even when looking at the obverse.
Early copper with minor issues gets a Pass for me as well. The services are all over the place on what straight grades and what gets Details.
If I still like the eye appeal and price, I’ll buy it.
But I won’t touch a Details walker. Straight grade AU over Unc details every time.
Why do people say details coins are "harder to sell"? They sell for less money of course, but they are bought for less too. That's what the discount is for. Every major site (GC, SB, HA, eBay) sells details coins all day long, just put it back up for sale on one of those. What am I missing here?
Would prefer a straight grade, but eye appeal can make a difference for me. Also, sometimes a low budget guy like me can only afford a problem coin in the key dates.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I'd never buy a slabbed " details " graded coin. I would buy a cleaned coin for an album if the price was right and only then if it was a needed coin AND I couldn't afford a straight graded example. That's why my 16-D Mercury spot is empty.
@Tramp said:
I'd rather have this one. Try to find one of these for what I paid, for the amount of detail this has.
This details coin looks better than most of the straight graded ones you see. Especially the ones that are in the AG3 range.
I would rather have this coin than an AG3 example for sure.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Sometimes lightly cleaned Unc. coins will straight grade. P/N do not give out "AU58" details grades for example, but only "AU details". Often they are right on the edge of the next grade category.
I normally don't consider them, but I'm open to details coins if the problem is not distracting. There's one I considered recently, but despite the low price, it's too expensive.
The ones I own where the problem actually is distracting are all 1855/54s mislabeled as 1855s. This one in a small ANACS EF-details holder labelled, "Damaged, Cleaned," thoroughly lives up to its diagnosis, but I kinda like it. It's got nice toning and the cleaning/polishing left a fine shine on the fields (not seen below). A lovely problem coin.
The coin is what the coin is. That said, I would rather have a flawless AU-50 than a problem Unc.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I have seen too many straight-graded coins that did not present even close to as well as a similar problem coin, and there are sliders in gradeability as we all know too. As far as the grade assigned, The coin doesn't change. For collectability, I see no difference whatsoever. If playing the registry game or trying to flip onto the market, straight-graded works better in those pursuits.
In terms of grade I’d rather receive on a submission, I’d rather have the grade that would yield the most profit on resale. In many (but not necessarily all cases), that would likely be the straight graded AU piece.
A week ago, I would never have considered having a Details graded coin in my Late Date LC set. Then I got back an1843 Mature Head that I had submitted raw. The coin is high AU and was graded AU "Repaired". I will tell you that whoever repaired the coin did an outstanding job! I paid less than half the AU58 price so it wasn't a total loss. The repair is to a tiny area on the edge of the coin...not distracting at all. I am making an exception for this coin and keeping it. She looks pretty....just had minor plastic surgery by one of the best coin doctors around.
The series I collect I am happy with either numerical or authentic because some are just so rare. If I collected a much easier series the new me would go for numerically graded over authentic. I say this because at some point I simply just purchased authentic coins when I was collecting a much easier series and should have purchased numerical coins. The vets told me here I did not listen but I do now. I still have to buy authentic coins because like I said many are just that rare I have no other choice.
Well, I'm totally bummed out. A coin I was looking to bid on has a problem! Pin scratches on the reverse., well hidden but they are there. The issue is it's straight graded! Even the last appearance in auction called out the pin scratches. Hugh Bummer
My first thought was that I would choose the coin I like better. I went back and looked again and could not see the X but my eyes kept getting drawn back to the label.
I would want to see the AU50. A lot of those have problems and are net graded. Now if you mean a Tom Bush AU50 (natural unmessed-with surfaces), then I would go with the AU50.
Mark Feld's answer is the best one so far. There is a continuum of straight graded coins, some of which were details graded in the past.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Problem with Details coins is that even if you crack em out - YOU still know it. You know what it is and it will literally scratch at your soul. It’ll keep you from sleeping at night and every trip to the mirror will bring shame and disgust.
😂 ok it’s not that bad. But it kinda is.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
@MFeld said:
More than a few of the straight grade examples that people would much prefer were once in detail-grade holders at which they’d thumb their noses.😉
I wondered that same thing, I assume the slang gradeflation doesn't apply to just straight graded coins, but an across the board shift. If some marks that would have previously kept a 62 from being a 63 are now ignored, then I'd assume that for some of the details coins the tolerance would be equally loosened up, creating at least some coins that moved out of details. But no one would ever admit that their coin had once been details (yes, yes, car has very low miles, it was once a Katrina flood write off, but are you still interested?), so difficult to know if that is happening.
@TimNH said:
Why do people say details coins are "harder to sell"? They sell for less money of course, but they are bought for less too. That's what the discount is for. Every major site (GC, SB, HA, eBay) sells details coins all day long, just put it back up for sale on one of those. What am I missing here?
From my experience, details coins are much more difficult to sell than lower grade problem free examples. I have had trouble selling problem coins at any price. There are far more collectors (evident in this thread) that only stick to problem free coins, significantly hurting the demand for any problem coin. I would imagine the circumstances are different with series that vary in demand. An AU Details 1916-D Mercury dime is an easier sell than an AU Details Capped Bust half dollar.
It is pretty easy to sell a problem coin on Ebay for a reasonable price because that is what the market has been acclimated to with online shopping. Take that same coin to a large show to sell to dealers and you may be stuck with it!
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
I once bought a raw Trade $ off Ebay that was covered in pvc. I soaked it several times in acetone and a few months later I sent it to Pcgs. It came back in an Unc. Details/Cleaned holder. I cracked it out and placed in a sunny windowsill for several months, during which time it toned some. I sent it back to Pcgs and it came back Unc. details/Questionable color. I cracked it out again and dipped it in E-zest. A few months later I sent it back to Pcgs for the 3rd time it came back in an MS-62+ holder. Just goes to show that some problem coins will eventually make it into straight graded holders. If I look at the coin and can't see why the TPG called it a details coin, I will usually try it again and have good success getting the coin straight graded.
Would never buy a problem coin in course of plan operation. Unacceptable to me as an investment let alone quality. Buy Straight graded only.
However - a problem coin dealer would. Knew guy (deceased) that was his area of specialization. He did quite a booming business both slabbed and raw (problem described).
Comments
I have never bought a details-graded coin, but I certainly can see circumstances in which I might (e.g., the only way I can afford a copy of a coin I very much want, and the "problem" isn't too distracting, given the price).
The problem of "you got it at a discount, so don't worry about selling at a discount," to me, is simply that, AFAIK, the market for details-graded coins isn't well-defined (e.g., there's no "price guide" for that coin), so it's a stab in the dark that you're getting it at a good price when you buy it (where, by "good price," I mean one that bears some resemblance, relative to the rest of the market, to what you'll sell it for, relative to that market).
Yes, there is some price uncertainty on details coins. But that can work in your favor as well as against.
A straight graded coin all day.
Sorry, but I'd see that dam x on the coin even when looking at the obverse.
I couldn't take it. 😉
Early copper with minor issues gets a Pass for me as well. The services are all over the place on what straight grades and what gets Details.
If I still like the eye appeal and price, I’ll buy it.
But I won’t touch a Details walker. Straight grade AU over Unc details every time.
Why do people say details coins are "harder to sell"? They sell for less money of course, but they are bought for less too. That's what the discount is for. Every major site (GC, SB, HA, eBay) sells details coins all day long, just put it back up for sale on one of those. What am I missing here?
Would prefer a straight grade, but eye appeal can make a difference for me. Also, sometimes a low budget guy like me can only afford a problem coin in the key dates.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I'd never buy a slabbed " details " graded coin. I would buy a cleaned coin for an album if the price was right and only then if it was a needed coin AND I couldn't afford a straight graded example. That's why my 16-D Mercury spot is empty.
This details coin looks better than most of the straight graded ones you see. Especially the ones that are in the AG3 range.
I would rather have this coin than an AG3 example for sure.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Sometimes lightly cleaned Unc. coins will straight grade. P/N do not give out "AU58" details grades for example, but only "AU details". Often they are right on the edge of the next grade category.
More than a few of the straight grade examples that people would much prefer were once in detail-grade holders at which they’d thumb their noses.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I normally don't consider them, but I'm open to details coins if the problem is not distracting. There's one I considered recently, but despite the low price, it's too expensive.
The ones I own where the problem actually is distracting are all 1855/54s mislabeled as 1855s. This one in a small ANACS EF-details holder labelled, "Damaged, Cleaned," thoroughly lives up to its diagnosis, but I kinda like it. It's got nice toning and the cleaning/polishing left a fine shine on the fields (not seen below). A lovely problem coin.
The coin is what the coin is. That said, I would rather have a flawless AU-50 than a problem Unc.
Straight graded every time for me, especially if they look like this:
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I have seen too many straight-graded coins that did not present even close to as well as a similar problem coin, and there are sliders in gradeability as we all know too. As far as the grade assigned, The coin doesn't change. For collectability, I see no difference whatsoever. If playing the registry game or trying to flip onto the market, straight-graded works better in those pursuits.
It depends on the coin. I’ve had a coin go from UNC details to MS66. It happens. 😉
In terms of grade I’d rather receive on a submission, I’d rather have the grade that would yield the most profit on resale. In many (but not necessarily all cases), that would likely be the straight graded AU piece.
A week ago, I would never have considered having a Details graded coin in my Late Date LC set. Then I got back an1843 Mature Head that I had submitted raw. The coin is high AU and was graded AU "Repaired". I will tell you that whoever repaired the coin did an outstanding job! I paid less than half the AU58 price so it wasn't a total loss. The repair is to a tiny area on the edge of the coin...not distracting at all. I am making an exception for this coin and keeping it. She looks pretty....just had minor plastic surgery by one of the best coin doctors around.
The series I collect I am happy with either numerical or authentic because some are just so rare. If I collected a much easier series the new me would go for numerically graded over authentic. I say this because at some point I simply just purchased authentic coins when I was collecting a much easier series and should have purchased numerical coins. The vets told me here I did not listen but I do now. I still have to buy authentic coins because like I said many are just that rare I have no other choice.
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
Well, I'm totally bummed out. A coin I was looking to bid on has a problem! Pin scratches on the reverse., well hidden but they are there. The issue is it's straight graded! Even the last appearance in auction called out the pin scratches. Hugh Bummer
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Generally I would prefer the straight graded example. But if the details has a good look to it, I may consider the details example.
Collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
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My first thought was that I would choose the coin I like better. I went back and looked again and could not see the X but my eyes kept getting drawn back to the label.
I prefer Uncirculated details, depending on the details
There's gonna be a lot more details graded material on the market in the next few years, based on what has happened in the last few months!
I would want to see the AU50. A lot of those have problems and are net graded. Now if you mean a Tom Bush AU50 (natural unmessed-with surfaces), then I would go with the AU50.
Mark Feld's answer is the best one so far. There is a continuum of straight graded coins, some of which were details graded in the past.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Problem with Details coins is that even if you crack em out - YOU still know it. You know what it is and it will literally scratch at your soul. It’ll keep you from sleeping at night and every trip to the mirror will bring shame and disgust.
😂 ok it’s not that bad. But it kinda is.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
I wondered that same thing, I assume the slang gradeflation doesn't apply to just straight graded coins, but an across the board shift. If some marks that would have previously kept a 62 from being a 63 are now ignored, then I'd assume that for some of the details coins the tolerance would be equally loosened up, creating at least some coins that moved out of details. But no one would ever admit that their coin had once been details (yes, yes, car has very low miles, it was once a Katrina flood write off, but are you still interested?), so difficult to know if that is happening.
From my experience, details coins are much more difficult to sell than lower grade problem free examples. I have had trouble selling problem coins at any price. There are far more collectors (evident in this thread) that only stick to problem free coins, significantly hurting the demand for any problem coin. I would imagine the circumstances are different with series that vary in demand. An AU Details 1916-D Mercury dime is an easier sell than an AU Details Capped Bust half dollar.
It is pretty easy to sell a problem coin on Ebay for a reasonable price because that is what the market has been acclimated to with online shopping. Take that same coin to a large show to sell to dealers and you may be stuck with it!
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
I once bought a raw Trade $ off Ebay that was covered in pvc. I soaked it several times in acetone and a few months later I sent it to Pcgs. It came back in an Unc. Details/Cleaned holder. I cracked it out and placed in a sunny windowsill for several months, during which time it toned some. I sent it back to Pcgs and it came back Unc. details/Questionable color. I cracked it out again and dipped it in E-zest. A few months later I sent it back to Pcgs for the 3rd time it came back in an MS-62+ holder. Just goes to show that some problem coins will eventually make it into straight graded holders. If I look at the coin and can't see why the TPG called it a details coin, I will usually try it again and have good success getting the coin straight graded.
Would never buy a problem coin in course of plan operation. Unacceptable to me as an investment let alone quality. Buy Straight graded only.
However - a problem coin dealer would. Knew guy (deceased) that was his area of specialization. He did quite a booming business both slabbed and raw (problem described).
How about some pics for comparison purposes? First, a AU58:
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
Then, a UNC details. Rather than cleaning, it may be water damage. Put another way, cleaning is “man made”; water damage a more “natural occurrence”.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon