Black on Black 1917 Walker.
Fairlaneman
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Your thoughts. This was won along with six 1916P Black on Black Mercury Dimes.
Edit to add: When I get these in hand from the seller I will comment on each coin.
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The Mercs.
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KEN
6
Comments
Send me the WLH. 😀
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I wonder where they have been kept for the past 106 years plus! They probably lay mostly undisturbed for the entire time.
Crusty and crispy
Ugly is the first thought I have.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Black Beauties for sure.
The Walker looks high end.
So do the Mercs for that matter.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
@ricko would cringe…but i like them!
Very high end but without luster.
Reminds me of a time awhile back when I saw a small collection like this.
It was a Canadian quarter collection from 1911 to 1936.
Totally original and untouched......All were ebony black but what was different was an extremely high degree of luster could be seen along with the blackness.
Those coins if dipped would probably net gem frosty mint state coins.
I don't know if I'd dip the US half dollar or the Mercs.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Not Ricko approved!
Would PCGS straight grade those coins or give them a details grade with "environmental damage" noted on the label?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Wondered that myself.
I feel that the toning is too dark and deep for a dip or curation.
Too dark for me, as is, but high grade details are present.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Looks like they were put away very near the time of issue.
Probably in a leather pouch
Ricko is spinning in his grave.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It is very unlikely those coins would look good if dipped. The toning is extreme and the coins would probably have a very dull appearance if dipped. Splotches of black would probably remain where the toning is the most extreme.
is this level of black toning called terminal and Damaging to the coins surfaces like etching?
It's all about what the people want...
Yes. Although I'm not sure I'd call it "etching". The etching happens if you try to remove it. What you're looking at is the surface.
Bottom center merc is trying to look like a D. Lol
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
That’s not toning, it’s tarnish.
Interesting.
Our host bodybagged a gorgeous proof cent of my for ED...
If these straight grade, I might join Keyman on the picket line.
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Blast white WLHs and Mercs are everywhere. These are different, with character. A nice change of pace.
Who took the flame thrower to them?
I actually like them, but I think the WLH is environmentally damaged. Still, I think it is quite cool and wouldn't mind owning a WLH like that.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
They have an odd appeal. Welcome to the dark ages.
@Fairlaneman, so about 15 years ago, I found this coin that looked exactly like what your Walker looked like.(Although maybe a little bit smoother surfaces). I didn’t think to take a picture beforehand, but believe me, it was a twin to your dark side’17. Here’s the result of a dip in jewel luster and 15 years of “natural toning” in a Mylar flip.
Not sure about that. Leather pouches usually give them that soft green crud.
Seeing how they've almost completely patinated with silver oxide my guess is a consistently warm atmosphere and/or decades inside some old school paper envelope(s) of some sort.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I didn’t think I’d like the black but it’s actually attractive, to a point.
Very cool looking coins my coin brother 👍
About 45 years ago I was looking at some Lincolns from my collection while sitting in an old living room chair at my parent's house. I accidentally dropped a coin that I was viewing and it fell between the cushion and arm of the chair. I reached down to retrieve the coin and pulled up this 1944-D Walking Liberty Half Dollar. I also found an Indian Head nickel down in that old chair. Both coins were blackened but the nickel wasn't nearly has bad as the half dollar so I assume the silver had a more severe reaction to the environmental conditions .
More like stored with used charcoal briquettes. Would like more if all were like the 1 merc with the reverse center fade to some color.
I've handled dozens of black coins still in leather holders. They do not always have any green crud. The tanning process leaves sulfur compounds behind which leads to the terminal black toning. The "green crud" seems to be from the breakdown of the leather not simply the presence of the leather.
No BonB Walker, but a Stone Mtn Comm I carried as a pocket piece for a few years and pulled it out by accident from the leather change pocket and found it to be similar. Far darker than my cell camera allows.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
These came from Europe recently as part of a group, they have a similar look.
I will try dipping one just to see what happens, clearly no numismatic value here!
Heres my black mercury. I posted this some time ago.
Edit to say it is much darker than in the photo.
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@2windy2fish Please share with us the results of your dipping experiment. I'm curious as to what is under all that tarnish as far as etching of the surfaces goes.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yup, watcha gonna dip em in? Jewel luster, eZest or ? I'd do it in 1 second stages with a rinse in between to control the reveal. Good luck. They look very crisp to me. Peace Roy
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It's been done. What you'll get is a matte, lusterless surface with spots of black in the letters and small features. There's a reason why people call it "terminal" black.
Here's my only black coin. Purchased many years ago, looks better in person. I liked the quarter moon crescent on the obverse. Its in an NGC Gen 5 fatty holder. Wondered if it would straight grade today.
All have environmental damage, OP. Terminal toning can't be stripped without damaging the coin.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Yeah I know but sure would be nice if there was a way.
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The coin is already damaged.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The Byron Reed coins had the same problem after sitting in a railway station for decades. And look how beautiful they were by the time that they were sold.
But it's "natural toning"....
I'm not disagreeing that leather itself is a plausible cause, but so is extended time inside an old school paper envelope(s). You specifically mentioned a leather pouch, which are usually unfinished or differently finished on the inside- and in my experience at least, tend to generate the green gooey stuff over time from the tanning agents- so while they might indeed eventually turn black, there should also be remnants of said crud as well imo unless the coins already had some layer of patina before being placed in the pouch.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Ok, here’s the result.
The coin in the foreground was the darkest coin, dipped for 5 seconds then rinsed in 50% EZEst, repeated 5 times. Dipped once in 100% once with no change
I did not dip the other 2
Obverse almost made it back but it barely touched the reverse, in hand there’s plenty of luster under the black!
That's interesting, little change to reverse. Guess the remainder on obverse etched the most into the surface and can never be removed. Dipping didn't seem to kill the luster, but its a photo. That's a lot of dipping.
The 24 was the lightest coin to begin with wasn't it?
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The 24 had the darkest tone i thought on the reverse
And yes, that is a LOT of dipping!
Might as well try to dip the same coin a few more times and see what happens. Nothing to lose its basically worth silver content.
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I wouldn't dip the 1917 WLH; I think it's cool AF and worth more like this.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
@TomB No i wouldn't either. That comment is for @2windy2fish
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