**Morgan Dollar GTG, CACG Style** ***GRADE REVEAL***
BadaBling
Posts: 104 ✭✭✭
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Ok…. This coin has been graded by all of the (now)big three; PCGS to NGC and finally to CACG. Take your best shot and feel free to guess the assigned grades from each service.
***(Reveal Fri Oct 27 @ 11:18am MT) Was PCGS 66 OGH, then NGC 67 and now CACG ‘MS Details Questionable Surfaces’ 🤦🏻♂️🤔🤬
See pics below in new post….
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Judging by how that last one went I’m going MS70 at all three services.
67
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
MS66 in a 1st gen CAC holder.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I am not sure how severe that mark on the cheek is, 66+! Does CACG do + grades?
😂🤣😂🤣 👍🏻👍🏻
They weren’t originally going to use/honor ‘+’ grades…. But thankfully they(JA) changed direction and they are using them now.
For real though, I would guess MS67+. That is a fantastic strike for an O mint (or any Morgan for that matter).
66+
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Photos are too poor to be used for grading.
No Debbie-Downers here! Best I can do with a phone…. I’m open to suggestions.
I'm just being honest. The photos are just not usable for grading.
66+
67
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
67, 65+,64 respectively
Everyone else seems to be doing just fine…. Plus you can always refer to the CACG provided images.
67.
I'll go 67+. The CACG photo seems really overexposed.
Coin Photographer.
65+
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
64
A few more perspectives….
65+ or 66 is my guess
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
MS 66
I’ll go 66+ but that CACG photo really is god awful, sheesh.
Founder- Peak Rarities
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That’s what they provided…. apparently it’s their version of True-View…. 🤷🏻♂️
I know, most of them look great but that one is horrible. Most of you probably think i'm a CAC booster in all aspects, but I will call it how I see it and I would be very dissapointed if that were my coin.
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Before I reveal the grade, I’ll give a brief history of the coin. This coin belongs to a client…. I bought it on his behalf several years ago at the PNNA show in Tukwila, Washington from the late great Gene Henry. It was originally housed in a PCGS MS66 early gen. OGH. I had later submitted it to CAC where JA rejected it but later explained, saying he thought the coin was very well struck and could end up in a 67 holder, but that he thought it was a little too ‘white’ for his liking.
So years later(roughly 18 mos ago), at the request of my client, I agreed to crack it out and submit the coin to NGC…. to no surprise it came back in a 67. Now here’s where it gets murky… my clients son(who by now mostly acts on his father’s behalf) called me in August and wanted to submit a dozen or so coins to CACG for grading once they opened for business…. This coin being one of them. My advice was to do a straight crossover…. My client and his son wanted them all cracked and sent in raw. Their coins, their rules… so that’s what we did.
So…. Here we are.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
66 to me is correct, and I agree with the "its too white" comment.
The question that's on everyone's mind is - Will it Griff?
**The Big Reveal… AKA, The Big Letdown…. AKA, WTF was CACG Thinking????…. AKA, Should’ve Left Well Enough Alone! 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️👎🏻👎🏻😖🤬
Ouch - that had to sting. I recently watched this video from the Coin Geek and asked myself the same question:
My condolences,
Tim
Ouch, that burns. Looking at the CACG grade only pops I can see that MS66 is their highest with only 2 of those, 2 65+ and 10 in Ms65.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
That is quite the haircut, but I guess your customer can always just crack and send back to NGC where it will likely get back into a 66 or 67 holder.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
In the first set of photos, the luster on the reverse seems different around the devices vs the fields. Somewhat on the obverse but not as noticeable in the photo.
Yikes!
Philippians 4:4-7
Regardless, the coin should’ve been straight graded. CACG has so far been uncharacteristically inconsistent and at times, ridiculously inaccurate… especially by JA’s CAC standards. This is currently a major concern for dealers and longtime savvy collectors alike. Let’s hope CACG can right the ship…. I have all the confidence that they can and will.
You’re telling me 😡
That's why it's called "guess" the grade.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I like the guy's deadpan commentary. "It's hard to get a coin downgraded 3 times but I have a special skill set". "I enjoyed losing money. I hope you enjoyed it too."
I am curious if/when this Morgan gets back into an MS67 NGC slab if the seller will disclose its 'slab history'.
And if not, is that ethical? And if so, will that hurt the selling price?
peacockcoins
3or4 crackouts... To me ...ME... Thats crazy
Well…. I think I pretty much did all that here. 😂
This is why we(smart dealers/collectors) always say “buy the COIN and not the holder/label. In my professional opinion, this coin is a rock solid 66+….. and I had no beef with NGC calling it a 67. What’s it’s NOT, is anything remotely ‘Details’; it hasn’t been Cleaned nor in any way are the surfaces’ Questionable’. This coin will be just fine.
I posted this coin to show that even the perceived best graders/finalizers from the most reputable grading services are, on occasion, fallible.
Yep. It is to me too. If my client would’ve taken my original advice, this post wouldn’t exist and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. 👍🏻
Absolutely, and not being disparaging.
I wonder what it was that the graders of CACG thought they saw that "wasn't really there" as far as a problem(s)?
How many graders view each coin with GACG? Is there a finalizer?
It is confusing how top-notch graders can disagree so readily on what should be a simple conclusion: Either a coin
has problems or it does not.
peacockcoins
“Regardless, the coin should’ve been straight graded. CACG has so far been uncharacteristically inconsistent and at times, ridiculously inaccurate… especially by JA’s CAC standards. “
I don’t understand this at all. Didn’t you say it failed at cac in the ogh? And now it’s failed at cacg. Seems quite consistent to me. “Too white” is a euphemism for dip-burned, where it was dipped to the point where luster is impaired. Cac has shown a tolerance for dipping, but only up to a point.
Hmm. Obviously I can't look at the coin online with the same level of scrutiny as the graders did. The only picture that might hint at being overdipped is the first shot of the reverse. Obviously everyone is still feeling out CACG's grading standards. Meanwhile CACG will need to figure out the market's tolerance for CACG grading standards. Too many CACG details holders will scare off a lot of submissions. This coin will never end up in a dealer case without being regraded by NGC.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
It’s had interesting travels - rattler 66, NGC 67, CACG Details. Why no min grade of 67 put on CACG subm form? Fumble.
What a mess - would want get back in the 67 whether PCGS or NGC. holder. Why wasn’t it left there? Did he think get 68 lol?
Good luck getting back in the NGC 67 holder. Or could try for 67 with our hosts.
This is an example of somebody getting burned in the holder game.
Thanks for sharing -
Wow - What a nightmare. Good luck getting it back to 67. Why not left it as is or specify minimum grade on subm form? Do u know how hard it is (subm) to go from 67 to 68?
I would try PCGS 67 first. Then NGC if not get it at PCGS. Then if it fails at PCGS If makes it at NGC 67 would celebrate w bourbon shot. Yay!!! Will the seller disclose history? Doubt it - it’s secruity level 3 / him only confidential / internal w the business. It would have a different NGC number any how - as CFO friend from Jersey says (showing him this over beer) / “that guy got it made n the shade if back to 67. That guy that gave it details / that’s the last time he would get my money. He’s fired, benched.”
Coin looks cloudy or hazy. Maybe that’s why the details grade
Coin is neither cloudy or hazy…. ineptitude is the reason for the details grade.